YoloinOhio Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Good research here - worth reading. http://www.trendingbuffalo.com/sports/buffalo-bills/reality-check-is-e-j-manuel-a-bust/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Really good article. I love the Romo picture. It looks like his high school year book photo. I'm a patient dude by name (except wanting to fire Marrone ) but I never got why people want to be the first to call a player a bust. Especially a QB. I'm not a fan of this move because I would like EJ to learn on the job. But it is a 5 year contract and hopefully, this is just a stumbling block and he can learn from this. Easy thing in the world is to say a player, especially a QB, will fail. Hopefully, this takes some pressure off and he can grow from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 It is absolutely too early to tell..... Frankly....if we didnt have our ownership situation I think the bills would have been more patient with EJ.......I fully expect him to compete for the starting spot next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 He has started less than a full season of games, way to early to make a determination one way or the other regardless of the fact that so many here have already made up their minds that he's never going to amount to anything. Only time will tell. I hope Orton does well and leads them to the playoffs, but my feeling is that the team will continue on their current path of some good games and some bad. I fully expect EJ to be back under center after the Bye week. I hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 It is absolutely too early to tell..... Frankly....if we didnt have our ownership situation I think the bills would have been more patient with EJ.......I fully expect him to compete for the starting spot next year. Agree. The timing clash of drafting a project QB, Kolb getting hurt, and then RW passing was not ideal in his development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) There is no analysis in that article. Just a list of QBs who have had success and slow starts. Lots of crappy QBs had slow starts, too. Lots of good ones were in far worse shape from a team perspective than Manuel. Few of those mentioned played with the current QB friendly rules. Those QBs should all be rated, not against each other, but against the QBs playing at that time. Sorry, but crap like that doesn't indicate anything about Manuel or any other QB - good or bad. Personally I think it is obvious that he needs to fix some aspects of his game - accuracy, reads, pocket presence, leadership - and that he'd be a very, very good NFL QB if he did. But I also know that that's a lot to ask and that the odds of any QB doing so much are very, very long. Edited October 3, 2014 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/10/3/6879867/ej-manuel-benching-bills-quarterback-kyle-orton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I'll say it's an interesting article, but you need to compare apples to apples. So, compare EJ to the other guys that started on Day 1 - Peyton Manning, Wilson, Ryan, Newton, & Flacco (Brees, Rodgers, Cutler, & Foles *might* have been great since Day 1, but we'll never know). EJ's numbers aren't exactly reflective of whether or not he's a bust. I'd agree with the author that you can't label him as a bust yet. But you'd have to watch the games and analyze the film to see why he's being benched. His decision-making hasn't been good. His accuracy is way off. His footwork still needs some work. Stuff like that isn't shown or reflected by numbers. Maybe Peyton or Flacco were also not that good at the beginning...I just don't remember. But they were given the chance to work through their problems while their teams weren't in playoff contention. The thing with EJ now is that the Bills have pressure to win. With EJ still not looking like a 100% NFL-caliber QB and Marrone feeling the heat, I don't blame him for the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Agreed, great article. Hopefully he continues to learn and develop behind Orton and is ready to take the next step the next time his number is called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Different guys develop at different rates. Aaron Rodgers is the modern poster child of the QB who needed 2-3 years to watch and learn. The caveat for his situation has always been "Yea, but he was playing behind Favre and had no chance of seeing the field anyway." True. But I also remember playing against the Packers in the preseason in 2006 and thinking how much better off we were with Losman than if we had not made the deal to trade up in 2004 and had waited until 2005 to draft Rodgers instead. Doh! I like EJ's mind-set and hope that he is preparing himself as if he is the starter. You never know, especially with our offensive line. Manuel could be rushed back into the starting role at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 The way I choose to look at it: "Busts" are wasted picks. The Bills used their 9th overall pick 2013 to draft EJ and Kiko. So, no. The Bills 9th pick was NOT a bust in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 The data argument is sound. What you'll see is selectively presented intangible evidence offered that refute the data. Slow eyes, can't read d, flouting passes, robotic play. Mind you all of these guys must have had some intangibles that made them suffer incompletions and accuracy problems. But the tendency is to look at this stuff in a vacuum and not consider that all these other guys may have not commanded the huddle, gotten happy feet under duress or hit open WRs as rookies. Then you'll get the yeah buts.. -Yeah but these guys showed flashes -Yeah but these guys weren't surrounded by amazing talent -Yeah but these guys were rookies in a different era -Yeah but these guys won games To all that, sure there are flashes- the toss from the 20 to the back of the ez vs the pats last year in GM 1 over double coverage was incredible. The winning drive v Carolina. The almost winning drives v Atlanta. The deep ball to Goodwin v jets. The rifles to woods on the deep crossing patterns last year. The beautiful sideline toss to Chandler vs the phins. The strike to sammy on a deep post. The scramble+ bomb to williams that traveled 50 yds in the air. A super athletic ability vs San Diego and Texas to keep a few plays alive. Also- he got his azz kicked in Houston and kept getting up. Of course, I am sure most of the busts fit into this pack too, which points back to the only real truth: YA JUST DONT KNOW YET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 The way I choose to look at it: "Busts" are wasted picks. The Bills used their 9th overall pick 2013 to draft EJ and Kiko. So, no. The Bills 9th pick was NOT a bust in 2013. They had the 8th overall pick and they traded down to 16 to get the guy thought by the braintrust to be their franchise guy. You don't win in the NFL by giving up 8 for 16 and a 2nd rounder unless you get something from both picks. It's not enough with players aging, contracts expiring, et al. Justifying the pick by saying "well at least they hit on the 2nd rounder" is weak. Just because something isn't a total loss doesn't mean it's a good decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Another article of similar theme: SB Nation NFL @SBNationNFL 11m11 minutes ago EJ Manuel got a quick hook, but all hope is not lost: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/10/3/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I've always said I'd be willing make 32 bets that the QB for that team in less than 3 years will be labeled a bust. And I'd throw Rogers, Manning, Brady etc, in there, sure I'll lose on those, but there are more failures than success at QB so easy to claim any QB will fail and you can look real smart as more than half do fail. Really good article. I love the Romo picture. It looks like his high school year book photo. I'm a patient dude by name (except wanting to fire Marrone ) but I never got why people want to be the first to call a player a bust. Especially a QB. I'm not a fan of this move because I would like EJ to learn on the job. But it is a 5 year contract and hopefully, this is just a stumbling block and he can learn from this. Easy thing in the world is to say a player, especially a QB, will fail. Hopefully, this takes some pressure off and he can grow from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Bust = Ryan Leaf. trouble from the get go with a pisspoor attitude. EJ may be a bust but honestly he's not been given enough time to prove himself and congratulations on creating the 100th EJ sucks thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) They had the 8th overall pick and they traded down to 16 to get the guy thought by the braintrust to be their franchise guy. You don't win in the NFL by giving up 8 for 16 and a 2nd rounder unless you get something from both picks. It's not enough with players aging, contracts expiring, et al. Justifying the pick by saying "well at least they hit on the 2nd rounder" is weak. Just because something isn't a total loss doesn't mean it's a good decision. Just because it wasn't perfect, doesn't mean it was bad. First quarterback taken and taken midway through the first. He was and remains a project, picked primarily for his potential. I don't know how a project QB @ 16 is a hasty move. And while it pains me to say, since we've been saying it about EJ for a year and a half: we'll have to wait and see. If/when he has a career resurgence or if/when he's given a chance (barring injury) to start again, THEN we'll know whether or not that project was a failed effort. Edited October 3, 2014 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Really good article. I love the Romo picture. It looks like his high school year book photo. I'm a patient dude by name (except wanting to fire Marrone ) but I never got why people want to be the first to call a player a bust. Especially a QB. I'm not a fan of this move because I would like EJ to learn on the job. But it is a 5 year contract and hopefully, this is just a stumbling block and he can learn from this. Easy thing in the world is to say a player, especially a QB, will fail. Hopefully, this takes some pressure off and he can grow from this. Learn on the job? We can't wait for learn on the job. You do that when you have a Brett Favre who is still capable of getting you to the playoffs. Buffalo needs a guy NOW. That said, I have seen nothing from EJ that says sitting the next 5 years will improve his game. He just can't process the information at the pro level fast enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Bust = Ryan Leaf. trouble from the get go with a pisspoor attitude. EJ may be a bust but honestly he's not been given enough time to prove himself and congratulations on creating the 100th EJ sucks thread i think it is pretty obvious I've been an a EJ supporter. It was not my intention to create an EJ Sucks thread. If I post an article like this elsewhere it gets buried, and I thought it was worth separating. Anyway, 99% threads eventually evolve into EJ Sucks threads. So we might as well stop creating threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Bust = Ryan Leaf. trouble from the get go with a pisspoor attitude. EJ may be a bust but honestly he's not been given enough time to prove himself and congratulations on creating the 100th EJ sucks thread Has anything changed where he doesn't suck? No. Is he still on this team? Yes. Are there still fans of EJ's that backed other failures like JP, RJ, Trent and pining for EJ to hopefully get it when he clearly wont? Yes. Therefore the "EJ sucks" threads will continue until he is gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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