The Underdog Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 14 years and counting... and games like this early on in the season is why our games are usually meaningless after thanksgiving especially because our defense played lights out... they dont deserve that outcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 How did we loss to houston. They ran 3 plays inside the red zone all day and turned the ball over 3 times. I say bring in Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 I hear ya. I can live with the mental mistakes. I can't live with being unable to throw a simple curl or out. The accuracy issues have reached points of epic panic. And, here, we all thought the reason we got rid of Fitz was to get a young gun who could "make all the throws." But, Orton can't be the answer, at least long term. It's a really bad dilemma. It's why they signed Orton to a 2 year deal...if he has to take over, they can't draft a QB next year with no 1st round pick so they would start Orton and draft one in 2016... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2002 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Or maybe provide him with a game plan that doesn't require him to drop back to pass 44 times with a shaky line, and facing the Tasmanian Devil of DE's in the league. Particularly when the Texan's D gave up nearly 200 yards rushing to a pretty bad Giants team last week. I pin this one on the Offensive coaches. . . . Poor plan poorly executed. . . . The gameplan is based on Ejs strengths the plays the coaches feel he is most comfortable running . They are not airing it out because thats not Ejs strength but the defense is playing for the run AT ALL TIMES so they ask him to complete a series of short high percentage passes in order to move the chains and keep the defense off balanced and he is struggling completing basis timing routes . The opponents defense like our offensive coaches has film and they can see exactly what EJ does and does not do well. Their goal as i said last week and will now repeat is to take away the run , limit turnovers get a lead ,and force EJ to have to throw . The fact that they gave us the ball 3 times and still won the game is a testament that they knew exactly how to beat us . Its not about throwing for 400 yards its about making the passes that make defenses pay for doubting you can do it in the first place . The last time I heard this much chatter about a Qb not being able to throw was Tebow like with tebow there is only so much game planning to get around a Qbs inability to throw accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Orton has spent more time doing his job than each of the following have in their respective jobs (NFL level): our OC our HC our GM our QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Manuel is not the the entire Bills team. Was he covering or was that Corey Graham? Did he forget to block Watt or was that Seantrel? Did he miss the PI call on Woods? Those sound like excuses, Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 The gameplan is based on Ejs strengths the plays the coaches feel he is most comfortable running . They are not airing it out because thats not Ejs strength but the defense is playing for the run AT ALL TIMES so they ask him to complete a series of short high percentage passes in order to move the chains and keep the defense off balanced and he is struggling completing basis timing routes . The opponents defense like our offensive coaches has film and they can see exactly what EJ does and does not do well. Their goal as i said last week and will now repeat is to take away the run , limit turnovers get a lead ,and force EJ to have to throw . The fact that they gave us the ball 3 times and still won the game is a testament that they knew exactly how to beat us . Its not about throwing for 400 yards its about making the passes that make defenses pay for doubting you can do it in the first place . The last time I heard this much chatter about a Qb not being able to throw was Tebow like with tebow there is only so much game planning to get around a Qbs inability to throw accurately. What are his strengths? I am asking seriously here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 So which one of our disaster went on to be a franchise QB elsewhere? was being funny (or trying to). Listing the "excuses" for keeping EJ over Orton at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I hear ya. I can live with the mental mistakes. I can't live with being unable to throw a simple curl or out. The accuracy issues have reached points of epic panic. And, here, we all thought the reason we got rid of Fitz was to get a young gun who could "make all the throws." But, Orton can't be the answer, at least long term. It's a really bad dilemma. I think the right thing to do here is give EJ one more game (or at least a start) to see how he rebounds from this......another performance like today and Orton goes in......and stays in barring injury. This team is too good in other positions to get drug down by one position like this. Then in the offseason you have a real QB competition (and you go get another REAL QB with talent to compete in it).......I am starting to think not bringing in legit competition for EJ was a huge mistake.......if he has this fragile of confidence it could be a root problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 If EJ showed any signs of promise, I'd say keep him in. But maybe he needs time to sit and watch a pro QB. Orton is not a pro bowler, but he's capable of winning. EJ is just a complete disaster at this point. I have no confidence anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Allowing QB's to throw hot air balloons into coverage and awarding them first downs via penalty at the end of the game is a very bad look. Corey Graham interfered similarly at the end of regulation in the opener and also no flag. The NFL has always tucked the flags late in games. See the SF/Balt Super Bowl. That's why it was such an outrage back in 1998 when the refs gave the Pats that win in Foxboro on a Hail Mary PI call. I can't watch yet another performance like that so I will be DVR'ing that Detroit game. If I can't watch it I don't know how Marrone can. There really isn't time for this staff to give EJ 30 starts. He's a mess right now. Maybe 3-4 years holding a clipboard and working on his mechanics and mental approach and he will be able to step back into an NFL lineup but right now he's dying out there. It's not like he's just throwing too many interceptions or the kind of mistakes you expect from a young QB.....he literally can't throw a football. It's almost so bad that you have to wonder if he's getting the yips. I've always felt that giving him actual physical competion would be good because it would help prevent him from over-thinking the task at hand. Great post. Knoblach territory, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 If EJ showed any signs of promise, I'd say keep him in. But maybe he needs time to sit and watch a pro QB. Orton is not a pro bowler, but he's capable of winning. EJ is just a complete disaster at this point. I have no confidence anymore. This is where I am too. Even JP had flashes of being able to play in the NFL. EJ can't make simple throws or decisions. I think Whaley is a helluva talent evaluator but this one draft pick will cost him his job because when you draft a QB high you hitch your wagon to his career and EJ is a train wreck. I wish he wasn't but he is and he was the reason this team lost today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 14 years and counting... and games like this early on in the season is why our games are usually meaningless after thanksgiving especially because our defense played lights out... they dont deserve that outcome The defense that busted to give up the Hopkins TD, or the defense that didn't touch a receiver while he was down and extended a late 4th quarter possession for the Texas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Houston literally did nothing on offense other than 1 pass to Hopkins for a TD, couldn't run at all... Manuel cost us the game with his inability to see wide open receivers, poor throws when he did see wide open receivers, and as usual the offense had no flow for most of the game... At some point we need to pull the plug on this experiment, he just isn't getting it and is killing our good play on defense and special teams by handing the ball right back to them with good field position after going 3 and out... I mean if our offense did anything the last 2 weeks we could have won the SD game because the D really clamped down in the 2nd half and virtually any other QB today against Houston would have had us easily winning by 10+ points... Very frustrating to finally be in a position where the rest of the team is good enough to do some damage and the QB keeps holding us back... Agreed on all points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I agree. The rest of the team is good enough. The quarterback is not good enough. Inaccurate. Doesn't see the whole field. Can't read defenses. We haven't had a good QB since Flutie. I would give him one more half. Then turn to Orton. just curious - why one more half? Seems random Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) I think last week was more inexcusable. SD was a "vanilla" loss. This week, I think it was excusable. Young QB threw a pick-six. It happens to the best when learning. I can live with this week's loss. Edited September 29, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 What are his strengths? I am asking seriously here. I'll bite: (1) avoids giving the ball away -- not just avoiding interceptions, but also avoids the strip sack thing. (2) pretty good with the play action/ball fakes. (3) (related to (2) makes good decisions on the read option -- in the first couple weeks we saw the EJ TD on the read option keeper/bootleg left, and a really nice FJ run up the middle when EJ saw a lane. Not a whole lot there, but that's the good stuff ... is it enough to build on? That's the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 This is the voice of reason. I think everyone knows that. But the poor play today pushes all of us to desperate thoughts. Let's just hope that EJ starts getting better and more consistent. Hope is not a strategy - please see my post here @ 11:19pm http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/171419-a-few-thoughts-about-the-game-in-no-particular-order/page__st__140 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronyAbounds Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 It might not be the best idea to throw Orton to the Lions in his first game. EJ's confidence is already shot, so let him take his lumps against Detroit and have Orton start, and hopefully beat, the Pats at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Manuel has had time enough to throw, but seems to hold the ball forever at times.He simply has no vision, no sense of timing, and is brutally inaccurate too often. Sure he makes a nice throw now and again, but those are far and few between all the pitiful throws. Has he ever stepped into a throw? We lose the game against the Bears if our WR's Woods and Williams don't make the acrobatic catches they did. Our WR's must be getting extremely frustrated. With that said, Hackett must be about the most incompetent OC around. His play calling looks like the plays are drawn from a hat instead of having specific purpose. If ever there was a game that called for pounding the rock........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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