Ej lost the game

[dave mcbride]

I hear ya, but if another thread is accurate...6 carries by FJ & CJ combined in the 2nd half of a very winnable game?

 

I actually don't think they gave up on the run in the second half. Until they got into desperation mode in their final two possessions, they ran it 8 times and passed it 13 times. Part of the problem was that the Texans had keyed on the run (probably factoring the airmailed passes in the first half) and held the Bills to 21 yards on 8 carries (or 6 carries for 14 yards if you want to knock out the first two runs of the second half prior to the pick). I know you have to work at the run, but the passing plays were there to be had.

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=400554212&period=0

Edited September 29, 2014 by dave mcbride

[Jauronimo]

having seen a lot of orton - hes not getting us a trophy this year, so yes. i would risk not seeing orton play in order to let the guy our staff went all in on play more than 4 consecutive games once in his career.

 

lets not assume orton would "salvage" the season, or that it would be fully lost if EJ plays.

Agreed. EJ isn't playing well but I can't say with any confidence that Orton will fare any better.

[GG]

I actually don't think they gave up on the run in the second half. Until they got into desperation mode in their final two possessions, they ran it 8 times and passed it 13 times. Part of the problem was that the Texans had keyed on the run (probably factoring the airmailed passes in the first half) and held the Bills to 21 yards on 8 carries (or 6 carries for 14 yards if you want to knock out the first two runs of the second half prior to the pick). I know you have to work at the run, but the passing plays were there to be had.

 

http://scores.espn.g...554212&period=0

 

Furthermore, the passes in the second half were the standard west coast safety outs to Freddie & CJ that typically got 3-4 yards. The reason all focus is on the passing is because Bills were awful in completing anything that traveled more than 10 yards in the air.

[Beerball]

having seen a lot of orton - hes not getting us a trophy this year, so yes. i would risk not seeing orton play in order to let the guy our staff went all in on play more than 4 consecutive games once in his career.

 

lets not assume orton would "salvage" the season, or that it would be fully lost if EJ plays.

I'm not, that's why I said we don't/can't know. Unfortunately I believe that I do know how the season will play out with the current QB.

 

It's good that your aspirations are the trophy this season, mine are somewhat more modest. I would like our #1 pick next year to be outside of the top 15.

 

I actually don't think they gave up on the run in the second half. Until they got into desperation mode in their final two possessions, they ran it 8 times and passed it 13 times. Part of the problem was that the Texans had keyed on the run (probably factoring the airmailed passes in the first half) and held the Bills to 21 yards on 8 carries (or 6 carries for 14 yards if you want to knock out the first two runs of the second half prior to the pick). I know you have to work at the run, but the passing plays were there to be had.

 

http://scores.espn.g...554212&period=0

What was the average YPC for FJ/CJ compared to the YPA?

[John from Riverside]

Sorry guys

 

I have been firmly entrenched in the EJ camp....but I slept on it and I came to the same conclusion.....

 

EJ was not ready to start coming out of college....he should have been holding a clipboard that first year......there is no denying his physical talents....they are definately there

 

But at this point and time EJ Manuel is not ready to lead this team. I saw glimpses of it in the Chargers game and it was in full display in the Texans game.

 

The Texans are not a good team.....all we needed to turn that around at several points (and the defense gave EJ PLENTY of chances) was a positive play.....a reason to pick up their game.

 

Late on throws.....frustrated receivers......balls in the dirt.....refusal to run when running options were there.....either throwing to the wrong guy or flat missing open guys.

 

I am not saying EJ is done or finished.....I think he needs to hold a clipboard for a while and play a veterans QB so that we can REALLY see what we have as far as talent at other positions on this team.

 

 

That said....OL play was atrocious.....we didnt run the ball enough.....and WR's need to catch balls that hit them in the hands.

[NoSaint]

I'm not, that's why I said we don't/can't know. Unfortunately I believe that I do know how the season will play out with the current QB.

 

It's good that your aspirations are the trophy this season, mine are somewhat more modest. I would like our #1 pick next year to be outside of the top 15.

 

i dont think ej gets us a trophy this year either but of the 2 guys, hes the only one that has a shot over the next several years - even if its slim. if it ends up improving our draft slot in order to put the question to bed fully, so be it. but even that is no "gimme" as orton may play just as poorly, or EJ might get it together some.

 

cleveland last year was the only time hes ever in the nfl walked onto the field for a 5th straight week. even if he looks bad the next couple weeks id like to see him get at least some time to play out of what could be a slump. im not looking for 4-5 seasons like some posters are crusading that anyone supporting EJ wants - simply noting his times been choppy and interrupted, hes young, and our alternatives arent either a) great but a short shelf life or b) having high upside to figure out..... EJ is the question we need to answer and i dont see a good reason not to answer it fully.

[dave mcbride]

I'm not, that's why I said we don't/can't know. Unfortunately I believe that I do know how the season will play out with the current QB.

 

It's good that your aspirations are the trophy this season, mine are somewhat more modest. I would like our #1 pick next year to be outside of the top 15.

 

What was the average YPC for FJ/CJ compared to the YPA?

 

I hear ya, but you can't win in this league if your plan is to avoid the pass because you assume that you're going to be getting 3.4 yards per pass play.

[TXBILLSFAN]

Sorry guys

 

I have been firmly entrenched in the EJ camp....but I slept on it and I came to the same conclusion.....

 

EJ was not ready to start coming out of college....he should have been holding a clipboard that first year......there is no denying his physical talents....they are definately there

 

But at this point and time EJ Manuel is not ready to lead this team. I saw glimpses of it in the Chargers game and it was in full display in the Texans game.

 

The Texans are not a good team.....all we needed to turn that around at several points (and the defense gave EJ PLENTY of chances) was a positive play.....a reason to pick up their game.

 

Late on throws.....frustrated receivers......balls in the dirt.....refusal to run when running options were there.....either throwing to the wrong guy or flat missing open guys.

 

I am not saying EJ is done or finished.....I think he needs to hold a clipboard for a while and play a veterans QB so that we can REALLY see what we have as far as talent at other positions on this team.

 

 

That said....OL play was atrocious.....we didnt run the ball enough.....and WR's need to catch balls that hit them in the hands.

Agree -- I don't think it's helping EJ to play and lose confidence. At least with Orton, we are assuming we'll get competent QB play to be able to compete and evaluate the talent on the roster. I don't think EJ is "done" but, I'm not at all optimistic. But, sitting for several weeks and watching and learning without the added pressure to play, could help him more than playing.

 

I think the biggest issue is the one that's faced this franchise since Kelly retired, who is the next franchise QB ?

[All_Pro_Bills]

Sorry guys

 

I have been firmly entrenched in the EJ camp....but I slept on it and I came to the same conclusion.....

 

EJ was not ready to start coming out of college....he should have been holding a clipboard that first year......there is no denying his physical talents....they are definately there

 

But at this point and time EJ Manuel is not ready to lead this team. I saw glimpses of it in the Chargers game and it was in full display in the Texans game.

 

The Texans are not a good team.....all we needed to turn that around at several points (and the defense gave EJ PLENTY of chances) was a positive play.....a reason to pick up their game.

 

Late on throws.....frustrated receivers......balls in the dirt.....refusal to run when running options were there.....either throwing to the wrong guy or flat missing open guys.

 

I am not saying EJ is done or finished.....I think he needs to hold a clipboard for a while and play a veterans QB so that we can REALLY see what we have as far as talent at other positions on this team.

 

 

That said....OL play was atrocious.....we didnt run the ball enough.....and WR's need to catch balls that hit them in the hands.

Perfectly stated. As I said a couple pages back EJ is a project but this team is not. And starting Orton, a veteran with known limitations, is a better option to give this team a chance to win games now while taking some precautions not to ruin EJ here for the future.

[NoSaint]

Agree -- I don't think it's helping EJ to play and lose confidence. At least with Orton, we are assuming we'll get competent QB play to be able to compete and evaluate the talent on the roster. I don't think EJ is "done" but, I'm not at all optimistic. But, sitting for several weeks and watching and learning without the added pressure to play, could help him more than playing.

 

I think the biggest issue is the one that's faced this franchise since Kelly retired, who is the next franchise QB ?

 

the kid has been in and out of the lineup his whole career - i think instead of him sitting every 3rd week (granted last year due to injury), actually getting to play is the route you have to go at this point.

 

do we end up in a better spot if orton plays 6-8 games, is mediocre and EJ comes back and looks decent for 4 games to finish the season, for instance?

[Big Gun]

Sorry guys

 

I have been firmly entrenched in the EJ camp....but I slept on it and I came to the same conclusion.....

 

EJ was not ready to start coming out of college....he should have been holding a clipboard that first year......there is no denying his physical talents....they are definately there

 

But at this point and time EJ Manuel is not ready to lead this team. I saw glimpses of it in the Chargers game and it was in full display in the Texans game.

 

The Texans are not a good team.....all we needed to turn that around at several points (and the defense gave EJ PLENTY of chances) was a positive play.....a reason to pick up their game.

 

Late on throws.....frustrated receivers......balls in the dirt.....refusal to run when running options were there.....either throwing to the wrong guy or flat missing open guys.

 

I am not saying EJ is done or finished.....I think he needs to hold a clipboard for a while and play a veterans QB so that we can REALLY see what we have as far as talent at other positions on this team.

 

 

That said....OL play was atrocious.....we didnt run the ball enough.....and WR's need to catch balls that hit them in the hands.

 

Not being snarky or anything, but lots of people keep saying this, what are his physical talents? I don't see much talent at anything that a QB needs.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Yep, EJ is so good, he just needs help. C'mon really? Stop with the excuses already!

Really? Is saying that there are multiple factors in the loss so frickin' incompatible with the idea that EJ was the greatest factor?

 

Give me a break.

 

Everybody in the locker room needs to look in the mirror and ask what they could have done better. That includes Keith Rivers, who inexplicably didn't lay a hand on a back who was short of the first down, then took advantage.

[papazoid]

you start Orton at Detroit. not the best place to start Orton, but so what. sink or swim. the season is not lost yet. it will be if you stick with EJ until the bye week.

 

if your an Orton fan, the best scenario is to give EJ det & NE. then give Orton the min, nyj, kc, mia, nyj, cle stretch of games.

 

 

I predict the dougs wait until the Minnesota game to start Orton.

 

if and when they make that move, Orton better win or the dougs are done. that easier stretch of games gives Orton a better chance to succeed.

[eball]

I'm off the EJ bandwagon. The coaching staff owe it to the rest of the team to see what Orton can do with these weapons. With a competent QB playing the Bills might very well be 4-0.

 

EJ will be killed in Detroit next week.

[BuffaloBaumer]

I have NEVER seen a more inaccurate QB in all my years here in Buffalo. Less athletic, smaller arm, not as mobile, lower IQ....sure. How the Hell could professional scouts have overlooked the most important trait in a QB? Seriously, I can't wait until Pegula gets rid of every single idiot that projected this kid as a #16 pick. I don't even know what's worse, picking EJ or giving up next year's first to move up and get a WR.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

I've tried to be fair with him but I thought today was the worst game that he has played in a Bills uniform. He usually doesn't make mistakes or plays but today he made some huge mistakes. In addition to the 2 huge turnovers he missed guys all day.

IDK that Pittsburgh game last year was pretty bad as was the Tampa game. At least this game he hit a couple of receivers for touchdowns. I am not say he was good just that you can add this to other pretty poor performances.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

IDK that Pittsburgh game last year was pretty bad as was the Tampa game. At least this game he hit a couple of receivers for touchdowns. I am not say he was good just that you can add this to other pretty poor performances.

You are right. It was a little hyperbole on my part. When they go back through the All-22 on this game it is going to look even worse than yesterday. I sat 5 rows from the field and watched guys run free the whole game that he either didn't see or just missed. It is not always the case but the more they rewatch this performance the worse it is going to look.

[John from Riverside]

Not being snarky or anything, but lots of people keep saying this, what are his physical talents? I don't see much talent at anything that a QB needs.

 

His physical talents are a QB that can run like a deer, has a strong arm and CAN make all the throws, and has legit QB size and height

 

But......he is too inconsistant and his accuracy at times is atrocious

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Yeah, they will be better with Orton. There is a sub segment of people on here that think that he is "the answer." He is a better option but not more than a band aid.

If he can play at a medium level the team can win. The winning is one less thing that has to be overcome by another QB coming in whether it be a new rookie or EJ after sitting for a few years and learning.

[Big Gun]

His physical talents are a QB that can run like a deer, has a strong arm and CAN make all the throws, and has legit QB size and height

 

But......he is too inconsistant and his accuracy at times is atrocious

 

Have not seen the running or the strong arm as of yet and a lot of QBs are 6'4" 230lbs. When saying "physical talents", it tells me he has something bigger and better than other guys, which really isn't true as most all NFL QBs have similar "physical talents". Haven't seen any of these so called talents on display, and doubt he really has anything more special than anybody else.