The Pegulas FIRST move as owners has already taken place

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

 

I did agree--to something close to that. What I said is that he should be held responsible for everything he's done since January of 2013, when he actually became responsible for the team.

 

The reason this issue won't die is that you seem to be saying he should be held accountable for things that happened before that--when he was not in charge of the team.

 

What we ostensibly agree on is this: Brandon should be held accountable for everything that has happened under his watch.

 

What we fervently disagree with is when his watch began: it is as of January 2013. Prior to that, he did not have autonomy, or even any semblance of control over the organization.

 

So just to humor us, what have you seen from Brandon as of January 2013, and how do you feel about the job he's done in his post since that time?

First, I'm glad we (you and I) agree on the post-January accountability. I believe other posters still do not, but, now realize without adding timeframe into my previous post, sent the two of us (at least) done a needless path.

 

I agree to disagree on the pre-January 2013 accountability/responsibility, but have no interest in re-litigating that. Suffice it to say that I believe Brandon is limited in his effectiveness to change culture (please, don't want an endless Jauronimo dialog on "culture") when has been a part of same culture for years himself. Sometimes you need fresh eyes to see what's broken and hot to fix.

 

But, like I said, let' focus on what we do agree on:

 

So, since January 2013:

 

CONS:

1- Renewing the Toronto series (it was an unmitigated failure and should never have been renewed, the idea of "selling" a home game made the team less competitive)

2- The Watkins trade, he should have NEVER signed off or whatever involvement he had, he should have said NO. Giving up a 2015 1st and 4th and our 2014 1st is too steep a price for a WR. Time will tell for sure, but it's been universally panned by national media (please no f*** the national media posts, I know they aren't always right either)

3- The lack of a backup QB plan, Brandon should have stepped in and told Whaley that given EJ's injury history and inconsistent play, they should have went to camp with a better backup plan (I've posted several times about signing Vick, S Hill, McCown, trading for a younger vet etc.) Again, in the end, it might have worked out with Orton, but not the way the team should be operating with the most important position in the game.

4- Only a rumor, but not supporting Marrone in regards to the training staff, if the HC wants to make changes to the training staff, he should have the right to do that and be empowered to make that change

5- More minor things (so, please no posts highlighted these, but they do signal a lack of organizational discipline), i.e. Jills lawsuit, Marrone's health leak, other leaks on FO infighting --- again, these are MINOR but could be signal of something

 

 

PROS:

1- Suspending the Toronto series for 2014

2- Elevating Whaley to GM (probably was set in motion before by whoever was responsible for hiring him and Nix, I guess Ralph, but Brandon putting Whaley in that role faster was good move, albeit too early to judge Whaley, I do think he's better than Nix)

 

 

** I think individual draft picks and personnel moves in general have been encouraging (outside the two I listed), I don't lay blame for instance for Kuonadjo or credit for Henderson because every team has hits/misses and I feel those picks 2nd round and later fall more on Whaley than Brandon, but if the net results of the drafts are positive, I'd list it as a PRO for Brandon, I just think it's too early.

 

It's also too early to grade Marrone or EJ, so, I'll leave them both as neutral.

 

I didn't put running the team profitably on the PRO side, because, to be honest, the last Forbes ranking had the Bills 29th and would have been 32nd (last) without the Toronto game in 2013. So, to be fair, (and I admitted this in another post), I'd put it on the list if he got the team back into the mid-20's, but no PRO for 29th.

 

I'd be curious to see your list.

 

I'm sure I forgot some PRO's ;-)

 

 

 

[GG]

THAT is what Russ Brandon does. He's all over every football decision.

 

And the football decisions have been terrible.

 

The Peters fiasco stings, but you don't know how much of that decision came from Detroit. BTW, exactly which football decisions have been terrible during his GM stint?

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

 

I'm sorry I didn't put anything in your mouth, you did. You wrote:

 

 

 

You said nothing at all about responsibility in that post and implied that Brandon was pulling the football strings.

 

Now you're changing course and talking about responsibility, which I agree with. Russ is responsible for the product on the field from when he took over as President.

I thought both were implied. My issue from get go on Brandon is holding him accountable for what he is responsible for and how well he performs against those responsibilities.

[Augie]

A) Whaley needs to stay.

B) The relationship with France certainly shouldn't hurt in any way and the knowledge and experience gained from this endeavor could be very valuable.

C) Stayin'! Wait.... that should be A. (and B and C and everything else comes later - maybe in Roman Numerals or something).

Edited September 10, 2014 by Augie

[thebandit27]

 

First, I'm glad we (you and I) agree on the post-January accountability. I believe other posters still do not, but, now realize without adding timeframe into my previous post, sent the two of us (at least) done a needless path.

 

I agree to disagree on the pre-January 2013 accountability/responsibility, but have no interest in re-litigating that. Suffice it to say that I believe Brandon is limited in his effectiveness to change culture (please, don't want an endless Jauronimo dialog on "culture") when has been a part of same culture for years himself. Sometimes you need fresh eyes to see what's broken and hot to fix.

 

But, like I said, let' focus on what we do agree on:

 

So, since January 2013:

 

CONS:

1- Renewing the Toronto series (it was an unmitigated failure and should never have been renewed, the idea of "selling" a home game made the team less competitive)

2- The Watkins trade, he should have NEVER signed off or whatever involvement he had, he should have said NO. Giving up a 2015 1st and 4th and our 2014 1st is too steep a price for a WR. Time will tell for sure, but it's been universally panned by national media (please no f*** the national media posts, I know they aren't always right either)

3- The lack of a backup QB plan, Brandon should have stepped in and told Whaley that given EJ's injury history and inconsistent play, they should have went to camp with a better backup plan (I've posted several times about signing Vick, S Hill, McCown, trading for a younger vet etc.) Again, in the end, it might have worked out with Orton, but not the way the team should be operating with the most important position in the game.

4- Only a rumor, but not supporting Marrone in regards to the training staff, if the HC wants to make changes to the training staff, he should have the right to do that and be empowered to make that change

5- More minor things (so, please no posts highlighted these, but they do signal a lack of organizational discipline), i.e. Jills lawsuit, Marrone's health leak, other leaks on FO infighting --- again, these are MINOR but could be signal of something

 

 

PROS:

1- Suspending the Toronto series for 2014

2- Elevating Whaley to GM (probably was set in motion before by whoever was responsible for hiring him and Nix, I guess Ralph, but Brandon putting Whaley in that role faster was good move, albeit too early to judge Whaley, I do think he's better than Nix)

 

 

** I think individual draft picks and personnel moves in general have been encouraging (outside the two I listed), I don't lay blame for instance for Kuonadjo or credit for Henderson because every team has hits/misses and I feel those picks 2nd round and later fall more on Whaley than Brandon, but if the net results of the drafts are positive, I'd list it as a PRO for Brandon, I just think it's too early.

 

It's also too early to grade Marrone or EJ, so, I'll leave them both as neutral.

 

I didn't put running the team profitably on the PRO side, because, to be honest, the last Forbes ranking had the Bills 29th and would have been 32nd (last) without the Toronto game in 2013. So, to be fair, (and I admitted this in another post), I'd put it on the list if he got the team back into the mid-20's, but no PRO for 29th.

 

I'd be curious to see your list.

 

I'm sure I forgot some PRO's ;-)

 

Biggest pros:

 

- Promoting Whaley

- Rebuilding the scouting dept

- Getting with the times and hiring a Director of Analytics

- The Lease

- Working with the other NFL owners after Mr. Wilson's passing to ensure they wanted the team kept here

 

Bigget Cons:

 

- The handling of the Toronto series overall was poor

- The refusal to acknowledge that Buddy Nix couldn't handle the GM job from the get-go

 

I can't hold things like trades and position groups against him, as I like the fact that he lets his football people do their jobs. I do blame Whaley for the handling of the QB spot though--having to scramble for a plan B when they did was lousy management.

 

As for the Watkins trade, I absolutely loved it. He's the kind of player that can make an offense, and they'll be a better team for it years from now. And again, I like that Brandon said (in effect) "hey, you've got the keys, just don't wreck the car".

[Augie]

To be fair on the Cons, didn't he squash Toronto early? It takes a big man to say maybe that was a bad idea and kill it. Part "Pro" in there, just part.

[machine gun kelly]

Leave Doug Whaley in place, but move Brandon back to the business only side, and out of the football decision making chain.

 

Agreed. Whaley is our future. I hope Marrone is too, but time will tell. I'm in favor though of leaving Marrone at least three years as long as there is some progression. The great organizations have continuity in mgmt, and coaching. Pittsburgh had two off years, but no one wants to get rid of Tomlin. Their problem was two things. They had a front office issue in some bad picks, and second, they got rid of Arians. they haven't had a potent offense since they licked him to the curb. Look what he did in Indy, and now arizona. They were awesome the other night.

[NoSaint]

 

Sorry, I tried my best to stay away from this and focus on France.

 

But, how is it digging deeply to point out:

1- Whaley reports to Brandon

2- Brandon/Whaley's press conference that Gabe posted

3- Footage of him in draft room, on the field at virtually every practice

4- Comments on drafting EJ and first hand discussions he had at FSU

5- Interviewed Marrone, Marrone is Syracuse guy

 

It seems like those of us who believe he is involved in football operations present facts and those of you that don't believe us rest on "unnamed sources" and belittle the facts that we do present, then ask us again "what facts do you have to suggest he is involved". Remember, the loudest person doesn't win the argument. So, "what facts do you have to suggest he isn't involved ?"

 

1) show me a GM that doesn't report to someone

2) I'm not sure what fact you think it proves

 

Draft: so our team president has a skill set that can help the franchise in a fluid, dynamic and fast paced environment

 

EJ: is helping in interviews proof of final decision making?

 

5) really? Because marrones a Syracuse guy? He was one of the hotter prospects around the league that year. Must be a lot of team presidents from cuse

 

 

 

If you follow the board well there are a handful of guys that are well dialed in with the staff at OBD including a former employee that would be in the know. All of them echo identical sentiments on the topic. All reporters that are dialed in seem to echo it. Joe Poster taking a guess on a message board seems to be the only camp refuting the claim. Believe what you want....

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Eugene Parker for GM.

If you cant beat him, hire him.

[Billy Zabka]

It's quite obvious to me that Russ Brandon meddles on the football side of things. I don't know how many CEO's of other NFL clubs "that just stick to the business side" are talking draft strategy, negotiating trades, calling other NFL GM's to see who they might be taking, and even appearing in Kevin Costner movies making trades.

 

I can't believe how many of you are clamoring for Brandon to stay. Since being promoted to a high level in 2006 the Bills have a .382 winning percentage. He has been here for the entire 14 year and counting playoff drought. He was the architect of giving away home games for cash which put the team at a competitive disadvantage.

 

With profit no longer being the #1 goal of the Buffalo Bills organization and the future of the Bills in Buffalo secure, it is time for Russ to hit the road with Jeffrey Littman.

[TXBILLSFAN]

 

 

1) show me a GM that doesn't report to someone

2) I'm not sure what fact you think it proves

 

Draft: so our team president has a skill set that can help the franchise in a fluid, dynamic and fast paced environment

 

EJ: is helping in interviews proof of final decision making?

 

5) really? Because marrones a Syracuse guy? He was one of the hotter prospects around the league that year. Must be a lot of team presidents from cuse

 

 

 

If you follow the board well there are a handful of guys that are well dialed in with the staff at OBD including a former employee that would be in the know. All of them echo identical sentiments on the topic. All reporters that are dialed in seem to echo it. Joe Poster taking a guess on a message board seems to be the only camp refuting the claim. Believe what you want....

I think there is acknowledgement that since Brandon became Prez in Jan 2013 he is responsible and therefore accountable for the performance of the football side of the franchise. I posted earlier, I actually believe the Prez/CEO should be INVOLVED in the football operations, we can debate degree and role he should play and I spelled out my opinion that subject in an earlier post.

 

I think it seems there will always be a disagreement on the role and responsibilities and therefore accountability he bears over the period prior to January 2013 when he was in an executive role with apparently no responsibility or involvement in football operations and therefore no accountability.

 

 

[Rico]

If you follow the board well there are a handful of guys that are well dialed in with the staff at OBD including a former employee that would be in the know. All of them echo identical sentiments on the topic.

I'm sure Chris Brown will concur.

[PromoTheRobot]

It's quite obvious to me that Russ Brandon meddles on the football side of things. I don't know how many CEO's of other NFL clubs "that just stick to the business side" are talking draft strategy, negotiating trades, calling other NFL GM's to see who they might be taking, and even appearing in Kevin Costner movies making trades.

 

I can't believe how many of you are clamoring for Brandon to stay. Since being promoted to a high level in 2006 the Bills have a .382 winning percentage. He has been here for the entire 14 year and counting playoff drought. He was the architect of giving away home games for cash which put the team at a competitive disadvantage.

 

With profit no longer being the #1 goal of the Buffalo Bills organization and the future of the Bills in Buffalo secure, it is time for Russ to hit the road with Jeffrey Littman.

Like you said...you don't know.

[NoSaint]

I'm sure Chris Brown will concur.

 

Good for him?

 

Might it be an off chance that despite him being paid to say the right things, those things might also be accurate on occassion?

 

 

Like you said...you don't know.

 

He did see him in draft day and you can't take that away from him.

[Kirby Jackson]

Todd France could be the new Overdorf.

I could totally see this. Overdorf's role is contract negotiation which is a specialty of France. He could be a trusted advisor and ranking ranking member of the Football Ops department with a focus on contract negotiation.

 

Overdorf is the one member of the front office that I am not sure what the future holds for. Brandon, Whaley and Marrone will all be here for a while and I would assume that Littman is leaving as a part of the sale.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

Good for him?

 

Might it be an off chance that despite him being paid to say the right things, those things might also be accurate on occassion?

 

 

 

He did see him in draft day and you can't take that away from him.

J'accuse!

[Kirby Jackson]

It's quite obvious to me that Russ Brandon meddles on the football side of things. I don't know how many CEO's of other NFL clubs "that just stick to the business side" are talking draft strategy, negotiating trades, calling other NFL GM's to see who they might be taking, and even appearing in Kevin Costner movies making trades.

 

I can't believe how many of you are clamoring for Brandon to stay. Since being promoted to a high level in 2006 the Bills have a .382 winning percentage. He has been here for the entire 14 year and counting playoff drought. He was the architect of giving away home games for cash which put the team at a competitive disadvantage.

 

With profit no longer being the #1 goal of the Buffalo Bills organization and the future of the Bills in Buffalo secure, it is time for Russ to hit the road with Jeffrey Littman.

Draft day reference?!? You obviously don't understand his role but as acting owner he has been involved in every decision since 2013. We really need a "stay in your lane" emoji.

[Billy Zabka]

There is a difference between overseeing things as "acting owner" and physically getting on the horn with other GM's to negotiate trades and talk draft scenarios. Combine that with dictating a "be bold" draft strategy where your GM trades two potential to 10 picks and a 4th to move up 5 spots for a WR and I would call that meddling.

Edited September 11, 2014 by b2henning

[Webster Guy]

This has nothing to do with Todd France, but I certainly hope the BILLS don't change GMs anytime soon.

Yeah me too. Whaley is solid, even with the Kujo whiff. 2013 draft and offseason pickups very impressive.

 

I disagree that Whaley's job is tied to EJ's success. Nobody is right all the time, and EJ still may be enough to get us there.

[PromoTheRobot]

There is a difference between overseeing things as "acting owner" and physically getting on the horn with other GM's to negotiate trades and talk draft scenarios. Combine that with dictating a "be bold" draft strategy where your GM trades two potential to 10 picks and a 4th to move up 5 spots for a WR and I would call that meddling.

 

Colonel Mustard committed the murder in the library with a poker! Did I win?