C.Biscuit97 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Ha ha, I do for some reason. I guess that I never thought that he desered the spot last year, I don't think that he deserves the extra reps that he has been getting this year. His game is loud in practice and quiet in games. He has no production in his background to support the chances that he has gotten. He has no discernible skill that separates him. He is just below average at everything. How hard is that to find on the waiver wire if you ever need depth? They had him playing ahead of Rogers last year (who will be the better player) and Woods this year (who will be the way better player). If he makes some plays in games I will back off but there are multiple people in the other thread that said that they would rather Hogan than Stevie!! If Hogan out produces Rogers, would your head explode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) If Hogan out produces Rogers, would your head explode? I would actually be thrilled. In hindsight I am glad that Rogers is gone because they may not have pulled the trigger on the Sammy deal. He is one of my favorite players to come out in the last 10 years and the Bills got him!! I really believe that he is the most talented skill player that the Bills have drafted since OJ (my dad always argues Butler had that kind of talent too). Obviously, it doesn't mean that he will even approach some of the great skill players that the Bills have had but in terms of talent Watkins is insane. If Hogan makes plays I will be all for it. The only thing that I care about are wins and losses. IMO though he doesn't offer nearly what Woods does. That is a part of my frustration. Playing him over Woods isn't helping the wins and losses. Edited August 22, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I would actually be thrilled. In hindsight I am glad that Rogers is gone because they may not have pulled the trigger on the Sammy deal. He is one of my favorite players to come out in the last 10 years and the Bills got him!! I really believe that he is the most talented skill player that the Bills have drafted since OJ (my dad always argues Butler had that kind of talent too). Obviously, it doesn't mean that he will even approach some of the great skill players that the Bills have had but in terms of talent Watkins is insane. If Hogan makes plays I will be all for it. The only thing that I care about are wins and losses. IMO though he doesn't offer nearly what Woods does. That is a part of my frustration. Playing him over Woods isn't helping the wins and losses. Cool man and I respect that. You're better than a lot of posters who would rather be "right" and see a Bill fail. But Hogan's a good dude. I predict he will make a few plays on STs and possibly as a receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Cool man and I respect that. You're better than a lot of posters who would rather be "right" and see a Bill fail. But Hogan's a good dude. I predict he will make a few plays on STs and possibly as a receiver. I hope that you are right!! Let's just get to the playoffs this year; it has been too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I hope that you are right!! Let's just get to the playoffs this year; it has been too long. Following your reasoning Kirby, don't you think it's a good idea for the staff to get Hogan on the field this preseason with the ones to see if he can handle the pressure starting given his past? Plus maybe it motivates Woods? It seems to me like he has handled it this preseason, right? I haven't seen him drop too many balls and he hasn't made it easy on Woods to get reps with the ones. I have to imagine there is some mental training to be able to catch a football under the pressure of a game and he needed some time to work that out. While I agree with you about the talent or a seemingly low ceiling with Hogan, you also need guys that can move the sticks. With Hogans work in the offseason and our lack of of a high quality te I think he can play a role in the offense and not just special teams this year. I kind of look at him like Josh Reed, he's a slot guy that can catch the ball and hopefully get first downs. But unlike when we had Josh, I think the talent level of our other wr's is high so I am not so concerned about Hogan if he can get open and catch the ball once the season starts, which he has given every indication he will be able to do per this preseason. Comparing him with Da'rick is tough though because I think you have a slot guy versus an outside guy and I'm not sure they were ever in direct competition for a roster spot. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 For a 217 lb pro athlete to get only 10 rep on the bench test is sad. Lack of work ethic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Bills Fan Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Dear lord, make it stop!!! Haha. And for such a superstar, he is struggling to beat out Griff Whalen (the Colts' Chris Hogan). http://www.stampedeb...-rogers-or-both Maybe Hogan is just a better receiver than Rogers. Why do we think Rogers is good? Because he had a good year for a crappy Tennessee team? I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think the Da'Rick crowd has lost some steam since Hogan is better Right...Sure he is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 A 4 page thread for a #5 WR and a WR that was cut last year? Only on TwoBillsDrive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 A 4 page thread for a #5 WR and a WR that was cut last year? Only on TwoBillsDrive Would you prefer an EJ sucks thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Rogers combine numbers: 6’2” - 217 40 – 4.52 Bench Reps @ 225lbs – 10 Vertical – 39.5 Broad jump – 132” (11’) 3 cone – 7.15 20 yard shuttle – 4.06 Hogan pro day numbers 6’1” - 221 40 – 4.50 Bench Reps @ 225lbs – 28 Vertical – 36.5 Broad jump – 126” (10’06”) 3 cone – 6.75 20 yard shuttle – 4.15 Woods Combine numbers: 6’0” - 201 40 – 4.51 Bench Reps @ 225lbs – 14 Vertical – 33.5 Broad jump – 117” (9’9”) 3 cone – 7.15 20 yard shuttle – 4.47 http://www.nfldrafts...=2011&genpos=FB http://www.nfl.com/c...gers?id=2540179 http://www.nfl.com/c...oods?id=2540169 Thanks for posting. This is a great example of pre-draft measurables not telling the story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Thanks for posting. This is a great example of pre-draft measurables not telling the story! The story has just begun, so how can these be considered a great example of that? For all we know, these measurements will match up perfectly with their career production. Edited August 23, 2014 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I was kind of surprised to see that’s not really true, they are in fact very similar. Below are Hogan’s pro day numbers (I’m assuming that he was not invited to the combine) as well as Rogers’ combine numbers. For the heck of it, I threw in Robert Woods combine numbers since he and Hogan are directly competing with each other. To my shock, Hogan outdid Rogers in a few categories and Woods in every category. Hogan is extremely raw because he has not been playing football very long but is one heck of an athlete. I don’t think anything has been given to him as someone stated up-thread. He’s worked his tail off and shown the coaches what he can do. Based on these and the chatter that Rogers was loafing while in camp with us, it sounds like keeping Hogan was a no brainer and he appears to have just as much upside if not more. Maybe there’s a reason he’s been ahead of Woods in the slot so far this camp…and I really do love Robert Woods, as my screen name attests. Just thought I’d throw some facts into all this speculation. Rogers combine numbers: 6’2” - 217 40 – 4.52 Bench Reps @ 225lbs – 10 Vertical – 39.5 Broad jump – 132” (11’) 3 cone – 7.15 20 yard shuttle – 4.06 Hogan pro day numbers 6’1” - 221 40 – 4.50 Bench Reps @ 225lbs – 28 Vertical – 36.5 Broad jump – 126” (10’06”) 3 cone – 6.75 20 yard shuttle – 4.15 Woods Combine numbers: 6’0” - 201 40 – 4.51 Bench Reps @ 225lbs – 14 Vertical – 33.5 Broad jump – 117” (9’9”) 3 cone – 7.15 20 yard shuttle – 4.47 http://www.nfldrafts...=2011&genpos=FB http://www.nfl.com/c...gers?id=2540179 http://www.nfl.com/c...oods?id=2540169 These numbers can't be right. They don't fit the narrative that hogan is slow, un athletic, small, can't play...yada yada.. Look I don't know what will come if the guy, but Da'Rick blew his shot. He wasn't even invited to the practice squad. When you are talking 5th guy down the line you want someone who will contribute every day, work his tail off, play special teams and prepare to be the next guy up every day. Unfortunately the coaches are in a better position to assess that than us fans are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The story has just begun, so how can these be considered a great example of that? For all we know these measurements will match up perfectly with their career production. There are too many variables to predict a career. I've never heard anyone do that from those types of stats. I would, however, be willing to bet the 2014 season results won't correspond to those stats, i.e. neither Rogers nor Hogan will contribute more than Woods this year. (That's what I meant.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 There are too many variables to predict a career. I've never heard anyone do that from those types of stats. I would, however, be willing to bet the 2014 season results won't correspond to those stats, i.e. neither Rogers nor Hogan will contribute more than Woods this year. (That's what I meant.) I think Hogan and Woods will both contribute more than Rogers. I think teams look for certain standards to be met, and then draft from the pool of guys that meet them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) When you are talking 5th guy down the line you want someone who will contribute every day, work his tail off, play special teams and prepare to be the next guy up every day. This is the crux of the argument. Those of us that supported Rogers believe differently. When I look at the very bottom of the roster (guys 50-53) I want either a guy with a discernible skill that can use that skill to influence a game (Ie Hopkins on kickoffs, Graham with speed, Easley on ST). Otherwise I want a guy with a huge ceiling that is a low investment (Rogers, Jasper, Peters, Seantrel). If they don't pan out it isn't like whiffing on a 2nd round pick (Troup, Hardy). I would never have a guy that does everything slightly below average. My roster would never have a spot for a guy because he practices hard. If he won't be able to ever impact a game then why would he have a spot? Perhaps Hogan can carve out a niche as a possession guy (mind you I never think that he will be as good a possession guy as Woods)? If not than there is no reason to keep him because he doesn't fit the other criteria. Addendum: 1 more thought....if the Bills had injuries to a point where Hogan was elevated all of the way to 3 on the depth chart for a week or 2 how much better is he than a street free agent for a week? Is he THAT much better than Roosevelt who was out there all of last year or David Nelson (who was out there a while)? If the reason that you are keeping him is because he is more ready to contribute in an emergency is the gap between Hogan and Roosevelt as your 3 (for a week or 2) large enough to warrant the roster spot? Do you need to protect that spot or could you just plug in a street or PS guy? Edited August 23, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Following your reasoning Kirby, don't you think it's a good idea for the staff to get Hogan on the field this preseason with the ones to see if he can handle the pressure starting given his past? Plus maybe it motivates Woods? It seems to me like he has handled it this preseason, right? I haven't seen him drop too many balls and he hasn't made it easy on Woods to get reps with the ones. I have to imagine there is some mental training to be able to catch a football under the pressure of a game and he needed some time to work that out. While I agree with you about the talent or a seemingly low ceiling with Hogan, you also need guys that can move the sticks. With Hogans work in the offseason and our lack of of a high quality te I think he can play a role in the offense and not just special teams this year. I kind of look at him like Josh Reed, he's a slot guy that can catch the ball and hopefully get first downs. But unlike when we had Josh, I think the talent level of our other wr's is high so I am not so concerned about Hogan if he can get open and catch the ball once the season starts, which he has given every indication he will be able to do per this preseason. Comparing him with Da'rick is tough though because I think you have a slot guy versus an outside guy and I'm not sure they were ever in direct competition for a roster spot. Just my opinion. Kirby , this is a good and fair post about what the deal is. Buffalo knows Woods is the Man. He has proven it . There is little comparison between Hogan and Woods . Give credit to Chris for his hard work . And in regard rogers ? I dont care a lick. He is not a Buffalo Bill : ) great post 4BiB ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Would you prefer an EJ sucks thread? No, but a trade Mario for Skelton would be fabulous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I always saw the Hogan move as a ploy to get Woods up up his game and put more effort in. They wanted Woods to work as hard as Watkins or Hogan. Nobody who watches could actually think Hogan is the better player or deserved to be running with the 1s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 These numbers can't be right. They don't fit the narrative that hogan is slow, un athletic, small, can't play...yada yada.. Look I don't know what will come if the guy, but Da'Rick blew his shot. He wasn't even invited to the practice squad. When you are talking 5th guy down the line you want someone who will contribute every day, work his tail off, play special teams and prepare to be the next guy up every day. Unfortunately the coaches are in a better position to assess that than us fans are. An interesting point on Hogan is he is a stud middy lacrosse player. Why is that relevant? My boys are elite in lax and were football players. The ability at a middy to cut, juke, and have great change of direction like a Welker is what elite lacrosse players do day in and out. He was an All-American, and he most likely is using these skills to make himself worth that 5th, 6th spot fr nothing else but special teams. I was an elite powerlifter on a national level and although they cheat terribly on the bench, a skill player to do 225 lbs. indicates he has some strength to him. Imdon't see him making the starting line up, but should be fun with Easely on the ST watching him, and maybe getting late in the year when someone will get hurt. I hope the kid makes it. I certainly can't wait to see Graham go. He's a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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