What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[LeviF]

Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" I yell as I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle.
 

Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads!” The grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms.
 

Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

On 6/8/2022 at 1:38 PM, SoCal Deek said:

Just like everything else...the demand for 'background checks' is nothing more than a easy-to-type talking point.  What will be checked?  Who gets to determine your rights in the grey areas?  Have the existing checks proven ineffective? Would the existing checks have stopped the recent shootings?  Serious people see what's going on here....and the talking points are NOT serious. 

 

That's the thing... what do they want? We already do background checks on all new gun sales. We do background checks on used gun sales coming out of a gun/pawn store (unless it's an antique firearm). 

 

The ONLY thing we don't do background checks on is private sales. Me selling my Ruger 10/22 to my neighbor for his kid to learn how to shoot or when I gifted my dad his Mossberg 500 shotgun. I now need to go to a FFL and pay $20 so we can do background checks on these? No thanks.

 

You'll always have criminals buying them off the street from other criminals... they aren't going to drive over to their local FFL (firearms dealer) and go through the background process. Ever. So the idea of "universal background checks" is pointless and moronic. 

On 6/8/2022 at 1:33 PM, Tiberius said:

Not enough 

 

Again, what do you want to do? NO CRIMINAL SELLING OR BUYING A FIREARM IS GOING TO DO A BACKGROUND CHECK. Krazy-8 and Tuco aren't going to meet up at the local Academy to run a 4473 so they can sell their guns to each other. It's just NOT HAPPENING. 

 

 

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

That's the thing... what do they want? We already do background checks on all new gun sales. We do background checks on used gun sales coming out of a gun/pawn store (unless it's an antique firearm). 

 

The ONLY thing we don't do background checks on is private sales. Me selling my Ruger 10/22 to my neighbor for his kid to learn how to shoot or when I gifted my dad his Mossberg 500 shotgun. I now need to go to a FFL and pay $20 so we can do background checks on these? No thanks.

 

You'll always have criminals buying them off the street from other criminals... they aren't going to drive over to their local FFL (firearms dealer) and go through the background process. Ever. So the idea of "universal background checks" is pointless and moronic. 

Increased background checks and waiting peiods. 

 

Again, what do you want to do? NO CRIMINAL SELLING OR BUYING A FIREARM IS GOING TO DO A BACKGROUND CHECK. Krazy-8 and Tuco aren't going to meet up at the local Academy to run a 4473 so they can sell their guns to each other. It's just NOT HAPPENING. 

 

 

Increased backgroud checks and longer waiting periods 

[ArdmoreRyno]

8 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Increased backgroud checks and longer waiting periods 

 

Explain "increased"....  And again, I've said this many times, you want the 20 year old single mom who's ex has beat her over and over, to have to WAIT to protect herself?

 

I have two daughters in college in different states (one is in Boston and the other in Oxford, MS), both living off campus. There would be NO way I'd want my girls to wait to be able to protect themselves from someone who has either caused them harm or threatened to cause them harm. 

 

And you skipped over the fact, no criminal is doing a background check to buy a firearm from another criminal. Ever. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by ArdmoreRyno

[Tiberius]

25 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Explain "increased"....  And again, I've said this many times, you want the 20 year old single mom who's ex has beat her over and over, to have to WAIT to protect herself?

 

I have two daughters in college in different states (one is in Boston and the other in Oxford, MS), both living off campus. There would be NO way I'd want my girls to wait to be able to protect themselves from someone who has either caused them harm or threatened to cause them harm. 

 

And you skipped over the fact, no criminal is doing a background check to buy a firearm from another criminal. Ever. 

Better, safer gun laws will be good. You won't be interfered with at all. So many deaths, something has to get done. Hope they push this set of reforms over goal line soon 

27 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

 

And you skipped over the fact, no criminal is doing a background check to buy a firearm from another criminal. Ever. 

Exactly, we need to get rid of a lot of the guns out there. Gun industry has flooded the country with killing devices 

 

Oh and let victims sue those gun makers 

[ArdmoreRyno]

34 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Better, safer gun laws will be good. You won't be interfered with at all. So many deaths, something has to get done. Hope they push this set of reforms over goal line soon 

Exactly, we need to get rid of a lot of the guns out there. Gun industry has flooded the country with killing devices 

 

Oh and let victims sue those gun makers 

 

What "safer gun laws" arey you thinking?  You keep posting things without actual answers on what or how.

 

How exactly are you going to "get rid of a lot of guns out there"? Have Tuco and the Salamanca twins turn in their guns after making a nation wide "You criminals who have illegal firearms, you better turn them in!"?? 

 

 

[Tiberius]

31 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

What "safer gun laws" arey you thinking?  You keep posting things without actual answers on what or how.

 

How exactly are you going to "get rid of a lot of guns out there"? Have Tuco and the Salamanca twins turn in their guns after making a nation wide "You criminals who have illegal firearms, you better turn them in!"?? 

 

 

I already said. Hope they get this first round of gun safety legislation done so we can move on to more 

[ArdmoreRyno]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I already said. Hope they get this first round of gun safety legislation done so we can move on to more 

 

So you can't say it again? I didn't want to go through 355 pages of replies. 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

The ONLY thing we don't do background checks on is private sales. Me selling my Ruger 10/22 to my neighbor for his kid to learn how to shoot or when I gifted my dad his Mossberg 500 shotgun. I now need to go to a FFL and pay $20 so we can do background checks on these? No thanks.

 

 

Seriously?  So you can give your weapon to any drug addicted/schizophrenic/psychotic/depressed.......(take your pic) person?   Yes please!!  

[ArdmoreRyno]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Seriously?  So you can give your weapon to any drug addicted/schizophrenic/psychotic/depressed.......(take your pic) person?   Yes please!!  

 

Huh? 

 

I'm not selling any of my firearms to those types of people (if I ever did sell them). But I've bought my dad a pistol and a lever action rifle as gifts before. We need to go do MORE background checks? And again, what criminal is going to do that??? 

[BillStime]

Classic cult

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

14 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Classic cult

 

 

 

I'd love to see the actual source of this quote... some news conference or press release. What MacFarlane tweeted was this: “I think we’re more interested in the red wave than we are in red flags. Quite honestly, as Republicans .” 

 

If he did say that, you can twist that to be on the pro or anti-gun side. 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

I'd love to see the actual source of this quote... some news conference or press release. What MacFarlane tweeted was this: “I think we’re more interested in the red wave than we are in red flags. Quite honestly, as Republicans .” 

 

If he did say that, you can twist that to be on the pro or anti-gun side. 

 

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

5 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

 

You didn't address my reply to you. Just threw out the same NRA ***** as you love to do. Not a surprise.

[Chef Jim]

10 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Huh? 

 

I'm not selling any of my firearms to those types of people (if I ever did sell them). But I've bought my dad a pistol and a lever action rifle as gifts before. We need to go do MORE background checks? And again, what criminal is going to do that??? 

So you know the mental background/state of everyone you associate with?   😏

[ArdmoreRyno]

8 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

So you know the mental background/state of everyone you associate with?   😏

 

Yea, pretty much. I'm also a licensed professional counselor (with a masters in clinical mental health). 

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Yea, pretty much. I'm also a licensed professional counselor (with a masters in clinical mental health). 

Excellent.  So what process do you go through when you sell them a weapon to ensure they are mentally stable or won’t use your weapon nefariously? 

 

I’m a classically trained Chef but I can’t tell what you had for dinner by looking at you. 
 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

48 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Excellent.  So what process do you go through when you sell them a weapon to ensure they are mentally stable or won’t use your weapon nefariously? 

 

I’m a classically trained Chef but I can’t tell what you had for dinner by looking at you. 
 

 

 

I don't sell to anyone I don't know. I really don't sell... I've given my father, mother and brother in law gun(s) as gifts. I sold one rifle to a former USMC friend who wanted to do what I do (long range shooting comp). 

 

What's to say someone you rented a UHAUL to won't use it as a truck bomb?

[Bob in Mich]

I haven’t followed this thread closely so apologies if this has been discussed

 

Just like with driver’s licenses, are we considering possible diminishing mental faculties and dementia with aging gun owners? Seems like quite a few of these ‘responsible gun owners’ that may have assembled a gun collection will someday suffer from dementia.

 

The person may become agitated and confused and could become a non responsible gun owner.  Or, the person may forget about them and could easily lose track of the weapons.

 

Has there been discussion about this issue here?

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Bob in Mich

[ArdmoreRyno]

19 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

I haven’t followed this thread closely so apologies if this has been discussed

 

Just like with driver’s licenses, are we consider diminishing mental faculties and dementia with aging gun owners? Seems like quite a few of these ‘responsible gun owners’ that may have assembled a gun collection will someday suffer from dementia.

 

The person may become agitated and confused and could become a non responsible gun owner.  Or, the person may forget about them and could easily lose track of the weapons.

 

Has there been discussion about this issue here?

 

 

 

I get what you're saying but there is one difference.... owning a firearm is a constitutional right. Driving is a privilege. You can own as many cars as you like, you don't have to have a DL or have it registered but you have to keep it on your property. Same with firearms. 

[Bob in Mich]

5 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

I get what you're saying but there is one difference.... owning a firearm is a constitutional right. Driving is a privilege. You can own as many cars as you like, you don't have to have a DL or have it registered but you have to keep it on your property. Same with firearms. 

I appreciate that distinction

 

So, has there been discussion about this potential problem?

[Warcodered]

43 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

I don't sell to anyone I don't know. I really don't sell... I've given my father, mother and brother in law gun(s) as gifts. I sold one rifle to a former USMC friend who wanted to do what I do (long range shooting comp). 

 

What's to say someone you rented a UHAUL to won't use it as a truck bomb?

I feel like the U-Haul might not be the most important component in this hypothetical situation.

[ArdmoreRyno]

4 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I feel like the U-Haul might not be the most important component in this hypothetical situation.

 

The main source of gun deaths, aside from suicides, are gangs/drugs. Not your neighbor selling to a neighbor or buying their brother in law a 30/30 lever action. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

21 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

I appreciate that distinction

 

So, has there been discussion about this potential problem?

 

There has been people talk about re-evaluating people after buying a firearm years down the road. I haven't heard of many people who ended up with dementia shooting up a place. Not sure how you'd enforce this... that's the biggest argument I've been making. How do you do anything people talk about? 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Bob in Mich said:

I haven’t followed this thread closely so apologies if this has been discussed

 

Just like with driver’s licenses, are we considering possible diminishing mental faculties and dementia with aging gun owners? Seems like quite a few of these ‘responsible gun owners’ that may have assembled a gun collection will someday suffer from dementia.

 

The person may become agitated and confused and could become a non responsible gun owner.  Or, the person may forget about them and could easily lose track of the weapons.

 

Has there been discussion about this issue here?

 

 

Bob…I agree. I see nothing wrong with people having to take a safety test every so many years. If nothing else it puts more emphasis on gun responsibility. And in my opinion it doesn’t negate the 2nd Amendment. 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

I don't sell to anyone I don't know. I really don't sell... I've given my father, mother and brother in law gun(s) as gifts. I sold one rifle to a former USMC friend who wanted to do what I do (long range shooting comp). 

 

What's to say someone you rented a UHAUL to won't use it as a truck bomb?

Are you for or against background checks for all transactions?  I take it no.  Why are your transactions any different from gun shops?  Because you “know” them?  

 

Again….you know them?   How well?  Do you know whether or not your USMC suffers major PDST and is in major depression meds?   
 

Your UHAUL analogy is asinine but hopefully you know this 

[ArdmoreRyno]

4 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Are you for or against background checks for all transactions?  I take it no.  Why are your transactions any different from gun shops?  Because you “know” them?  

 

Again….you know them?   How well?  Do you know whether or not your USMC suffers major PDST and is in major depression meds?   
 

Your UHAUL analogy is asinine but hopefully you know this 

 

Because, as I've said in this long thread of posts, CRIMINALS aren't going to do background checks. I know the people I've sold to or given them as gifts. So to answer your question, yes. I'm against ALL background checks. Person to person, private sales, it's not a practical thing. Again, Krazy-8 isn't going to do a background check with his local FFL to sell his Glock to Tuco. 

 

And the UHAUL analogy isn't that far off from being relevant. I was in OKC in 1995. I saw the aftermath of what a truck bomb did. The point is, you can't see into the future of what someone 'might' do. Just like a FLL at Academy Sports don't know the future if that person will use it to take their own life 10 years down the road. 

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Because, as I've said in this long thread of posts, CRIMINALS aren't going to do background checks. I know the people I've sold to or given them as gifts. So to answer your question, yes. I'm against ALL background checks. Person to person, private sales, it's not a practical thing. Again, Krazy-8 isn't going to do a background check with his local FFL to sell his Glock to Tuco. 

 

And the UHAUL analogy isn't that far off from being relevant. I was in OKC in 1995. I saw the aftermath of what a truck bomb did. The point is, you can't see into the future of what someone 'might' do. Just like a FLL at Academy Sports don't know the future if that person will use it to take their own life 10 years down the road. 

You know them?? You didn’t answer question. It wasn’t rhetorical.  Do you, for a fact, know your USMC buddy does or does not suffer from PTSD and is on medications. Yes or no.  And if he his should he be allowed to purchase a weapon.

Not practical? Awww poor baby.  You need to have him fill out paperwork to purchase your weapon.  
 

This has NOTHING to do with criminals. This is about keeping weapons out is the hands of those with mental illnesses. Do not say “don’t blame the gun, blame the person” but turn around and sell your weapon to any person who you THINK you know.  How many neighbors of these crazies say “but he seemed like a nice quiet guy.”? 

[ArdmoreRyno]

38 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

You know them?? You didn’t answer question. It wasn’t rhetorical.  Do you, for a fact, know your USMC buddy does or does not suffer from PTSD and is on medications. Yes or no.  And if he his should he be allowed to purchase a weapon.

Not practical? Awww poor baby.  You need to have him fill out paperwork to purchase your weapon.  
 

This has NOTHING to do with criminals. This is about keeping weapons out is the hands of those with mental illnesses. Do not say “don’t blame the gun, blame the person” but turn around and sell your weapon to any person who you THINK you know.  How many neighbors of these crazies say “but he seemed like a nice quiet guy.”? 

As*hole much?

 

I also served. Just be take you served and might have PTSD (a lot of people have it who never served in the military) doesn’t mean you should lose your f’ing rights. Holy chit dude. 
 

How many former military shoot up places??? And I’m all for background checks, I’ve done dozens in my life for firearm purchases. It’s not practical to have people who sell or gift firearms to run another background check. You can’t enforce it and yes, criminals have everything to do with my argument. Most shootings are done by gangs/drug deals. 
 

Wow dude. PTSD 🤦🏻‍♂️🙄

Edited June 15, 2022 by ArdmoreRyno

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

As*hole much?

 

I also served. Just be take you served and might have PTSD (a lot of people have it who never served in the military) doesn’t mean you should lose your f’ing rights. Holy chit dude. 
 

How many former military shoot up places??? And I’m all for background checks, I’ve done dozens in my life for firearm purchases. It’s not practical to have people who sell or gift firearms to run another background check. You can’t enforce it and yes, criminals have everything to do with my argument. Most shootings are done by gangs/drug deals. 
 

Wow dude. PTSD 🤦🏻‍♂️🙄

You have stats about that? 

Guns and drugs connection? 

[Warcodered]

4 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

####### much?

 

I also served. Just be take you served and might have PTSD (a lot of people have it who never served in the military) doesn’t mean you should lose your f’ing rights. Holy ***** dude. 
 

How many former military shoot up places??? And I’m all for background checks, I’ve done dozens in my life for firearm purchases. It’s not practical to have people who sell or gift firearms to run another background check. You can’t enforce it and yes, criminals have everything to do with my argument. Most shootings are done by gangs/drug deals. 
 

Wow dude. PTSD 🤦🏻‍♂️🙄

Still don't seem to have answered his question.🤔

 

Isn't the idea that you make it illegal to sell to criminals and people with red flags, so maybe criminals still sell to each other, but wouldn't the supply dry up as illegally owned firearms get picked up in the course of things?

[ArdmoreRyno]

23 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

You have stats about that? 

Guns and drugs connection? 

Look up who were involved in all theses “mass shootings”. 

 

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

18 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Still don't seem to have answered his question.🤔

 

Isn't the idea that you make it illegal to sell to criminals and people with red flags, so maybe criminals still sell to each other, but wouldn't the supply dry up as illegally owned firearms get picked up in the course of things?

I’m all for finding a way to keep guns out of criminals and seriously mentally ill people’s hands. 
 

Private sale backgrounds won’t fix it. That’s what I’m saying. How would guns “dry up”? 

[Tiberius]

9 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

Look up who were involved in all theses “mass shootings”. 

 

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

I’m all for finding a way to keep guns out of criminals and seriously mentally ill people’s hands. 
 

Private sale backgrounds won’t fix it. That’s what I’m saying. How would guns “dry up”? 

Nothing to prove most shootings are drug and gang related? 

[ArdmoreRyno]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Nothing to prove most shootings are drug and gang related? 

Okay, then instead, I’ll say most shootings are between minorities in the intercity. You don’t see minority kids in the suburbs shootings each other. 
 

Not difficult to put two and two together. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

 

[Tiberius]

18 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

Okay, then instead, I’ll say most shootings are between minorities in the intercity. You don’t see minority kids in the suburbs shootings each other. 
 

Not difficult to put two and two together. 

Stats? 

[Tiberius]

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Stats? 

 

In a Feb. 3, 2020 op-ed published in TownHall.com, Lott writes, “The overwhelming majority of non-adult murders involving drug gangs, and nearly all of the victims are teenagers. Drug dealers are the primary source of illegal guns.”

76% of these injured “children” were 17, 18, or 19 years old. 

 

62% of injuries were the result of criminal assaults. 

 

The injuries are overwhelmingly concentrated in large, urban areas.

 

All of these deaths are clearly tragic. But they are largely a result of gang violence, a problem that won’t be solved by scaring law-abiding Americans into not owning guns.” 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by ArdmoreRyno

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

In a Feb. 3, 2020 op-ed published in TownHall.com, Lott writes, “The overwhelming majority of non-adult murders involving drug gangs, and nearly all of the victims are teenagers. Drug dealers are the primary source of illegal guns.”

76% of these injured “children” were 17, 18, or 19 years old. 

 

62% of injuries were the result of criminal assaults. 

 

The injuries are overwhelmingly concentrated in large, urban areas.

 

All of these deaths are clearly tragic. But they are largely a result of gang violence, a problem that won’t be solved by scaring law-abiding Americans into not owning guns.” 

 

 

Were you not screaming for me to be banned for posting a Vox video? You reply with a garbage Townhall op-ed? 

[ArdmoreRyno]

13 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Were you not screaming for me to be banned for posting a Vox video? You reply with a garbage Townhall op-ed? 

I was being sarcastic about being banned. lol