Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Not a fan of that plan Kirby... I know its asking a lot, but I want another Ralph type owner... LONGGGGG term, KEEP the team in Buffalo.... This isn't a combination o Million Dollar Listing and Flip This House Me neither but there are worse options. That is all that I was getting at. I could see Golisano doing what he did with the Sabres and get the new stadium off the ground and lock them into WNY. At the same time the TV, revenues will grow (as will the in stadium revenues) and then he can turn the team for a profit. 5-10 years of Golisano is way better than Toronto in 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Clearly my top priority is staying in WNY, so any possible way that can happen, I am happy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Isn't it amazing how everyone pretty much thinks "Pegula has the team" and is 3 layers into building the brick foundation for his statue when we get nailed with another "Toronto article" This will probably drag on for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 If he's just a scammer, how does he benefit by laying out all this money?: The Congels don't lay out their own money. They request tax break after tax break after tax break. Hire people with no construction/business/management experience at $60,000 then let them all go less than a year later because politicians/elected officials are holding up their plans. They "clean up" the environment waste on their property for a couple hundred thousand dollars, then get millions from the government to recoup their costs. Anytime a Congel is associated with a project, expect it to takes years to be completed, if it ever is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 The Congels don't lay out their own money. They request tax break after tax break after tax break. Hire people with no construction/business/management experience at $60,000 then let them all go less than a year later because politicians/elected officials are holding up their plans. They "clean up" the environment waste on their property for a couple hundred thousand dollars, then get millions from the government to recoup their costs. Anytime a Congel is associated with a project, expect it to takes years to be completed, if it ever is. Pretty much sums it up. My wife is from Syracuse and anyone familiar with the destiny USA project know how this guy operates. He milked nys for almost a decade on the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Forbes Article: " Toronto is much easier. That group, which includes rocker Jon Bon Jovi, and MLS&E owners Larry Tanenbaum and the Rogers family, could rebuild BMO Field. There is much more corporate advertising and premium seating money in Toronto than Buffalo. A Toronto group would likely pay $1.2 billion for the Bills. How could Wilson’s trust turn that down?' " Pretty compelling argument. Replacing the stadium on the CNE grounds (where the Argos played for years) in Toronto would be much much easier/cheaper than building a stadium in WNY. Already has massive parking lots that serve the CNE, fantastic public transportation to the site, all you need to do is replace the structure surrounding the field. Tailgating would be easy in the surface lots. Ontario Place is right there plus all the facilities of the Exhibition grounds. Hey I'd rather see the team in WNY myself, but from a business standpoint, if Ralph's will dictates selling to the high bidder and league and owners want the biggest financial bang from a new owner, the Toronto gang will be very competitive I am afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) After his Sabre escapades, if you thought Ralph was cheap, this guy brings it to a new higher level. This is not good news Not at all. He spent as much as he could spend without losing money. The Sabres spent money under Golisano, they just were stupid. Before Briere and Drury left they were scared of long-term deals because NHL contracts are garuanteed. They changed their thinking. The NFL is much different. Bills will spend. Actually even with Ralph they spent on players, it was coaches they went cheap on. Edited July 17, 2014 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Forbes Article: " Toronto is much easier. That group, which includes rocker Jon Bon Jovi, and MLS&E owners Larry Tanenbaum and the Rogers family, could rebuild BMO Field. There is much more corporate advertising and premium seating money in Toronto than Buffalo. A Toronto group would likely pay $1.2 billion for the Bills. How could Wilson’s trust turn that down?' " Pretty compelling argument. Replacing the stadium on the CNE grounds (where the Argos played for years) in Toronto would be much much easier/cheaper than building a stadium in WNY. Already has massive parking lots that serve the CNE, fantastic public transportation to the site, all you need to do is replace the structure surrounding the field. Tailgating would be easy in the surface lots. Ontario Place is right there plus all the facilities of the Exhibition grounds. Hey I'd rather see the team in WNY myself, but from a business standpoint, if Ralph's will dictates selling to the high bidder and league and owners want the biggest financial bang from a new owner, the Toronto gang will be very competitive I am afraid. Huh? How do you figure that? First, Exhibition stadium, where the Argos used to play, doesn't even exist any more. It's a parking lot. And even if it did, it doesn't come close to the required amount of seats for NFL games (either does Rogers Centre, more on that later). Unless you are referring to BMO field, where Toronto FC plays? Which seats 20,000 and would need so much work and building to bring it up to the required amount of seats for NFL games, the owner might as well just build his own. Second, where would this money come from in Toronto to build this stadium? The Argos are moving out of the Rogers Centre (which doesn't meet minimum NFL seating, anyways) , more like being forced out the new grass will make it not possible to set the field up for football games. It's been reported all over that the Argos will not receive any public funding for a new stadium. So you think somehow an NFL team would get public funding? Not likely. That means out of pocket from the new owner. Whats all that mean? It means moving the team to Toronto would be about the most expensive option when buying the Bills. I'd say the team goes for $1.25 billion, plus another $1 billion for a stadium, plus NFL relocation fee, plus the $28 million from waiting til year 7 of the lease. Not easier or cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Forbes Article: " Toronto is much easier. That group, which includes rocker Jon Bon Jovi, and MLS&E owners Larry Tanenbaum and the Rogers family, could rebuild BMO Field. There is much more corporate advertising and premium seating money in Toronto than Buffalo. A Toronto group would likely pay $1.2 billion for the Bills. How could Wilson’s trust turn that down?' " Pretty compelling argument. Replacing the stadium on the CNE grounds (where the Argos played for years) in Toronto would be much much easier/cheaper than building a stadium in WNY. Already has massive parking lots that serve the CNE, fantastic public transportation to the site, all you need to do is replace the structure surrounding the field. Tailgating would be easy in the surface lots. Ontario Place is right there plus all the facilities of the Exhibition grounds. Hey I'd rather see the team in WNY myself, but from a business standpoint, if Ralph's will dictates selling to the high bidder and league and owners want the biggest financial bang from a new owner, the Toronto gang will be very competitive I am afraid. That will not be the case. This was really lazy reporting from Forbes. The JBJ group has said publicly and privately that they will be keeping the team in WNY if they win the bid. I would assume that it may be NF to be closer to Toronto, but it won't be in Toronto. For what it is worth Rogers isn't even a part of that group. I for one am no that nervous about the team being anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 That will not be the case. This was really lazy reporting from Forbes. The JBJ group has said publicly and privately that they will be keeping the team in WNY if they win the bid. I would assume that it may be NF to be closer to Toronto, but it won't be in Toronto. For what it is worth Rogers isn't even a part of that group. I for one am no that nervous about the team being anywhere else. 1. They never said publicly they would keep the team in WNY. They have never said anything. You might be referring to the garbage comments from that chipmunk faced traitor formerly known as Jaws. 2. They have to say they would keep the team in WNY because a) the trust is only fielding offers from bidders with a plan to stay in WNY so they will lie and say that's their intention and b) we are locked in a lease so nobody is going to come out and say they are moving us and then endure 5-6 seasons of protesting. I am still worried about the team leaving unless the bidders name rhymes with Fegula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) That will not be the case. This was really lazy reporting from Forbes. The JBJ group has said publicly and privately that they will be keeping the team in WNY if they win the bid. I would assume that it may be NF to be closer to Toronto, but it won't be in Toronto. For what it is worth Rogers isn't even a part of that group. I for one am no that nervous about the team being anywhere else. JBJ group would be smart to build a stadium on the border. Everyone is happy. You keep the support of WNY plus you have all of Southern Ontario's corporate support. The key in a plan like that would be to improve border traffic and make it easier and quicker for season ticket holders to cross the border. To top it off, a stadium on the border is guaranteed a Super Bowl. You have Toronto as the site for all the media and entertainment. You can get hotels anywhere, from Buffalo to Toronto. Again, everyone is happy. If JBJ has a plan for a stadium on the border, then he is my choice by a mile. I guess the question would be do they change the name. It would not be a deal breaker for me. Edited July 17, 2014 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 That will not be the case. This was really lazy reporting from Forbes. The JBJ group has said publicly and privately that they will be keeping the team in WNY if they win the bid. I would assume that it may be NF to be closer to Toronto, but it won't be in Toronto. For what it is worth Rogers isn't even a part of that group. I for one am no that nervous about the team being anywhere else. Excellent. All for that. And I was talking about BMO field WayneCubed. Yeah , the Ex was torn down long ago. Childhood memories of going to the CNE took over there a bit. I was mainly making the point that while there is no WNY site without significant problems (N.Falls: no access and lousy value proposition for the stadium builder, B Lo waterfront: impossible politics and lousy value proposition for the sucker who has to pay for the stadium, Site of existing Ralph: too far away from most fans+no economic benefit/new revenue), the BMO site is absolutely ideal. I don't see a problem with stadium financing if the value proposition for the stadium owner is there; in Toronto, the value proposition is there b/c a new stadium would take all the non-baseball/CFL business now going to a beat up/old/small Rogers field. WNY would only attract a small fraction of what Toronto can attract, because it is, well, Buffalo . Toronto is f ing massive and attracts every outdoor/indoor touring event in the world. For the Bills to stay in WNY, 1) the NFL owners plus 2) the League plus 3) the franchise buyer plus 4) the builder/owner of a $1B stadium need to be giving one heck of a huge home town discount. Hope it happens, believe me. But it doesn't appear to make much business sense at all. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 JBJ group would be smart to build a stadium on the border. Everyone is happy. You keep the support of WNY plus you have all of Southern Ontario's corporate support. The key in a plan like that would be to improve border traffic and make it easier and quicker for season ticket holders to cross the border. To top it off, a stadium on the border is guaranteed a Super Bowl. You have Toronto as the site for all the media and entertainment. You can get hotels anywhere, from Buffalo to Toronto. Again, everyone is happy. If JBJ has a plan for a stadium on the border, then he is my choice by a mile. I guess the question would be do they change the name. It would not be a deal breaker for me. Then, no offense, you sound like a traitor. With all due respect, this is the BUFFALO BILLS. With the right support, they aren't going anywhere. That should be your "first choice by a mile." Don't take offense to that, nothing personal, but my feeling is we all need to stick together on this. We aren't giving any leeway. This is our team and they are staying in Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 1. They never said publicly they would keep the team in WNY. They have never said anything. You might be referring to the garbage comments from that chipmunk faced traitor formerly known as Jaws. 2. They have to say they would keep the team in WNY because a) the trust is only fielding offers from bidders with a plan to stay in WNY so they will lie and say that's their intention and b) we are locked in a lease so nobody is going to come out and say they are moving us and then endure 5-6 seasons of protesting. I am still worried about the team leaving unless the bidders name rhymes with Fegula I was referring to Jaws' comments publicly. I was also referring to what I have been told. He has been saying that to the people involved with the sale as well as the commish. There is a plan for the JBJ group to keep the team in WNY. He is certainly not my favorite candidate but he is definitely a viable candidate. He is serious in his pursuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I was referring to Jaws' comments publicly. I was also referring to what I have been told. He has been saying that to the people involved with the sale as well as the commish. There is a plan for the JBJ group to keep the team in WNY. He is certainly not my favorite candidate but he is definitely a viable candidate. He is serious in his pursuit. Understood. But JBJ is at the mercy of the Toronto-based people as he can't afford the team on his own. They aren't going to dump all of that money in and not move the team to Toronto. As soon as the lease is up they would be gone. If we protest enough and make our voices heard then that might scare them off. It's already begun with the "Bon Jovi Free Zone" movement. I think we need some more public protests that get us on the news. They don't want to deal with a rabid fan-base like ours and the NFL won't want the bad press. There will be other opportunities to move a team to Toronto but let's make ours the most difficult as much as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Understood. But JBJ is at the mercy of the Toronto-based people as he can't afford the team on his own. They aren't going to dump all of that money in and not move the team to Toronto. As soon as the lease is up they would be gone. If we protest enough and make our voices heard then that might scare them off. It's already begun with the "Bon Jovi Free Zone" movement. I think we need some more public protests that get us on the news. They don't want to deal with a rabid fan-base like ours and the NFL won't want the bad press. There will be other opportunities to move a team to Toronto but let's make ours the most difficult as much as possible I think, and I'm sure he'll provide a much-welcomed correction I'm wrong, that Kirby's point is this: the Bon Jovi/MLSE group would be buying the team to keep them here (WNY). The NFL wants them here, and won't take kindly to a shift in gears down the road. I'll have to defer to Kirby on that group's plans, as I have zero insight on them. I do know that the NFL owners love Russ Brandon, which is a force working squarely in our favor as far as the future of the team--Ralph knew what he was doing with that move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Then, no offense, you sound like a traitor. With all due respect, this is the BUFFALO BILLS. With the right support, they aren't going anywhere. That should be your "first choice by a mile." Don't take offense to that, nothing personal, but my feeling is we all need to stick together on this. We aren't giving any leeway. This is our team and they are staying in Buffalo No offense taken. I would choose the bid that is best for WNY and also the bid that keeps the team in WNY forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Understood. But JBJ is at the mercy of the Toronto-based people as he can't afford the team on his own. They aren't going to dump all of that money in and not move the team to Toronto. As soon as the lease is up they would be gone. If we protest enough and make our voices heard then that might scare them off. It's already begun with the "Bon Jovi Free Zone" movement. I think we need some more public protests that get us on the news. They don't want to deal with a rabid fan-base like ours and the NFL won't want the bad press. There will be other opportunities to move a team to Toronto but let's make ours the most difficult as much as possible The point is that we already have. I think that the initial intent of that group was to move them to Toronto. That has since changed that stance because of the difficulty in doing so. They still see this as an opportunity to get an NFL team. I am speculating that they would be moving the team to NF to be closer but I am not positive of that. I am positive that they now intend on remaining in WNY. When RW passed away people speculated aloud that Toronto &/or LA may be threats. As the information has been shared both publicly and privately this is less and less the case. There really are not any legitimate candidates that will be relocating the team. There are other names that are serious players that have not been made public but none of which will be moving the team out of WNY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) I was referring to Jaws' comments publicly. I was also referring to what I have been told. He has been saying that to the people involved with the sale as well as the commish. There is a plan for the JBJ group to keep the team in WNY. He is certainly not my favorite candidate but he is definitely a viable candidate. He is serious in his pursuit. His plan must include a stadium. If it does then I believe him. JBJ has to tell people the team will stay because they will be here until 2020 anyways, and maybe even a few years longer. JBJ is not keeping the Bills in WNY if they are playing in The Ralph. Anyone that believes that is a sucker. Edited July 17, 2014 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 His plan must include a stadium. If it does then I believe him. JBJ has to tell people the team will stay because they will be here until 2020 anyways, and maybe even a few years longer. JBJ is not keeping the Bills in WNY if they are playing in The Ralph. Anyone that believes that is a sucker. All of the buyers have to have stadium plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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