HopefulFuture Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Many on here sell Mr. Galisano short. He saved the Sabres and then found an owner that fit for the area. He didn't just rebuild the brand then sell to the highest bidder, he found an owner that was passionate about the sport and was committed to the area. Personally, I'd like to thank Mr. Galisano for all he's done for WNY. Selling the team to Mr. Pegula cannot be stressed enough. I am hoping those 2 team up with Jacobs in the mix on the stadium side. That's a potent force. If Mr. Pegula doesn't get the team, I'm crossing my fingers it's Galisano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 All of the buyers have to have stadium plans. They will present a fake plan knowing all along that they will receive some push back from tax payers and at the first chance they get they will bolt to Toronto and blame it on us. Do not trust any Toronto-based group. They have no intentions on staying in WNY. It would be bad business to do so. We need someone like Pegula that doesn't care about the dollars and cents because to us in WNY it's about more than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 They will present a fake plan knowing all along that they will receive some push back from tax payers and at the first chance they get they will bolt to Toronto and blame it on us. Do not trust any Toronto-based group. They have no intentions on staying in WNY. It would be bad business to do so. We need someone like Pegula that doesn't care about the dollars and cents because to us in WNY it's about more than that So you think that the buyer will present the commissioner of the league and the team with a fake plan? You think that they will get approved by the league for relocation if this happens? I know that JBJ was once the biggest threat and his music remains awful. The bottom line is that things have changed. If they want a chance to own an NFL team they have realized that they can't just do as they please. He is obviously isn't anyone's 1st choice but he is a serious contender and will be keeping the team. I would recommend the continued boycotting of his music but that is a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 They will present a fake plan knowing all along that they will receive some push back from tax payers and at the first chance they get they will bolt to Toronto and blame it on us. Do not trust any Toronto-based group. They have no intentions on staying in WNY. It would be bad business to do so. We need someone like Pegula that doesn't care about the dollars and cents because to us in WNY it's about more than that I'm sorry, but do you really believe that a "fake plan" will pass muster with the trust (which contains a heavy-handed attorney plus Ralph's personal finance professional) AND the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 It will be "real" for all intensive purposes. But they have no intention on keeping the team here after the lease is up and as soon as they have the chance to leave they will. Do you think a Toronto group is going to sign a 30 yr lease on a new stadium in Buffalo and thus deny the people of Toronto a chance to have an NFL team? Not a chance. We have seen in the past how much goes into signing a lease. There is a lot of back and forth and give and take on both sides. After any push back, they would just fold up and leave town and blame it on us. I don't trust them as far as I can throw them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I'm sorry, but do you really believe that a "fake plan" will pass muster with the trust (which contains a heavy-handed attorney plus Ralph's personal finance professional) AND the NFL? I think he means a plan that is real but they won't follow through on. Like all of congel's developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) It will be "real" for all intensive purposes. But they have no intention on keeping the team here after the lease is up and as soon as they have the chance to leave they will. Do you think a Toronto group is going to sign a 30 yr lease on a new stadium in Buffalo and thus deny the people of Toronto a chance to have an NFL team? Not a chance. We have seen in the past how much goes into signing a lease. There is a lot of back and forth and give and take on both sides. After any push back, they would just fold up and leave town and blame it on us. I don't trust them as far as I can throw them Well their plan would be known. So if WNY agrees with the plan then they cant say we are the problem. If WNY does not agree with the plan then they should move the team. I would guess if the plan is considered unlikely to work in WNY they wont win the bid. Lying to Bills fans and NY State politicians would be the wrong move. They would have to stay here for years when we all know they lied, life would be miserable. The NFL would never approve a plan that doesnt work in WNY. Edited July 17, 2014 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) It will be "real" for all intensive purposes. But they have no intention on keeping the team here after the lease is up and as soon as they have the chance to leave they will. Do you think a Toronto group is going to sign a 30 yr lease on a new stadium in Buffalo and thus deny the people of Toronto a chance to have an NFL team? Not a chance. We have seen in the past how much goes into signing a lease. There is a lot of back and forth and give and take on both sides. After any push back, they would just fold up and leave town and blame it on us. I don't trust them as far as I can throw them He has presented this plan to the commissioner and the team. He will need to follow through with it or the league will not approve his bid or relocation. There will be give and take but the give and take will not be which city the team plays in!! That is not how it works. NF may be his plan to be closer to Toronto but I am telling you that he has given up on that dream of relocating the Bills to Toronto. That is off the table. The 30 year lease will be signed with the new stadium. Whatever his group's plan is for a long term answer in WNY (again I am guessing NF). You can choose to believe what I am saying or not but I promise it is the truth. I don't want him as an owner either but I have slept much better knowing that TO is off the table for that group because they are real contenders. Edited July 17, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Well their plan would be known. So if WNY agrees with the plan then they cant say we are the problem. If WNY does not agree with the plan then they should move the team. I would guess if the plan is considered unlikely to work in WNY they wont win the bid. Lying to Bills fans and NY State politicians would be the wrong move. They would have to stay here for years when we all know they lied, life would be miserable. The NFL would never approve a plan that doesnt work in WNY. Indeed...the stadium plans for any bidder that isn't a local guy are going to be vetted pretty thoroughly I would imagine. And as you said, being disingenuous with all the entities at play here would be a really, really bad move. He has presented this plan to the commissioner and the team. He will need to follow through with it or the league will not approve his bid or relocation. There will be guve and take but the give and take will not be which city the team plays in!! That is not how it works. NF may be his plan to be closer to Toronto but I am telling you that he has given up on that dream of relocating the Bills to Toronto. That is off the table. The 30 year lease will be signed with the new stadium. Whatever his group's plan is for a long term answer in WNY (again I am guessing NF). You can choose to believe what I am saying or not but I promise it is the truth. I don't want him as an owner either but I have slept much better knowing that TO is off the table for that group because they are real contenders. That's all I need to hear...thanks Kirby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Forbes Article: " Toronto is much easier. That group, which includes rocker Jon Bon Jovi, and MLS&E owners Larry Tanenbaum and the Rogers family, could rebuild BMO Field. There is much more corporate advertising and premium seating money in Toronto than Buffalo. A Toronto group would likely pay $1.2 billion for the Bills. How could Wilson’s trust turn that down?' " Pretty compelling argument. Replacing the stadium on the CNE grounds (where the Argos played for years) in Toronto would be much much easier/cheaper than building a stadium in WNY. Already has massive parking lots that serve the CNE, fantastic public transportation to the site, all you need to do is replace the structure surrounding the field. Tailgating would be easy in the surface lots. Ontario Place is right there plus all the facilities of the Exhibition grounds. Hey I'd rather see the team in WNY myself, but from a business standpoint, if Ralph's will dictates selling to the high bidder and league and owners want the biggest financial bang from a new owner, the Toronto gang will be very competitive I am afraid. Umm, have you tried driving around that area on a weekend? It's a pure sh--show without 60-70,000 extra people. Toronto's traffic along the waterfront is a freaking nightmare. You can leave at 10am hoping to get there in time for a 1pm Jays game and make it for the 7th inning if you're lucky. Factor in Peace Bridge hassles, and you can say goodbye to the prospect of ANYONE crossing the border for NFL football. As if there would be a chance for that anyway with the team being pried away from its loyal fans. Notwithstanding the fact that if the Bills leave WNY, I'm done, I dare them to put a stadium there. I'll laugh, it'd be a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 He has presented this plan to the commissioner and the team. He will need to follow through with it or the league will not approve his bid or relocation. There will be give and take but the give and take will not be which city the team plays in!! That is not how it works. NF may be his plan to be closer to Toronto but I am telling you that he has given up on that dream of relocating the Bills to Toronto. That is off the table. The 30 year lease will be signed with the new stadium. Whatever his group's plan is for a long term answer in WNY (again I am guessing NF). You can choose to believe what I am saying or not but I promise it is the truth. I don't want him as an owner either but I have slept much better knowing that TO is off the table for that group because they are real contenders. I understand that they will have their "plan" and it will be approved by the league and the trust and there will be rainbows and butterflies. They will sell them the team thinking they will follow through on this plan too. Years will pass. The lease will be nearing it's end. They start to plan the new stadium. There will be tax payer money required to build the stadium. They will try to finalize it and there will be push back from the state as to how much they are willing to fork over. They will use that as an opportunity to leave and build a stadium on the other side of the border. They will say "see we tried, we did our part. We couldn't make it work in WNY." They will wash their hands of the situation. The NFL won't care very much at that point because a team in Toronto is worth more than a team in WNY and they will jump at the opportunity to have a brand spanking new stadium in Toronto and host a Super Bowl in Canada as part of their expansion. There's no way I would trust any Toronto group and you shouldn't either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 He has presented this plan to the commissioner and the team. He will need to follow through with it or the league will not approve his bid or relocation. There will be give and take but the give and take will not be which city the team plays in!! That is not how it works. NF may be his plan to be closer to Toronto but I am telling you that he has given up on that dream of relocating the Bills to Toronto. That is off the table. The 30 year lease will be signed with the new stadium. Whatever his group's plan is for a long term answer in WNY (again I am guessing NF). You can choose to believe what I am saying or not but I promise it is the truth. I don't want him as an owner either but I have slept much better knowing that TO is off the table for that group because they are real contenders. Can I have one reason why you wouldnt want JBJ as an owner? The guy is well respected already by top NFL owners. It could only be good for the team IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I understand that they will have their "plan" and it will be approved by the league and the trust and there will be rainbows and butterflies. They will sell them the team thinking they will follow through on this plan too. Years will pass. The lease will be nearing it's end. They start to plan the new stadium. There will be tax payer money required to build the stadium. They will try to finalize it and there will be push back from the state as to how much they are willing to fork over. They will use that as an opportunity to leave and build a stadium on the other side of the border. They will say "see we tried, we did our part. We couldn't make it work in WNY." They will wash their hands of the situation. The NFL won't care very much at that point because a team in Toronto is worth more than a team in WNY and they will jump at the opportunity to have a brand spanking new stadium in Toronto and host a Super Bowl in Canada as part of their expansion. There's no way I would trust any Toronto group and you shouldn't either. They will never win the bid then. These plans will be in motion long before the lease nears the out clause. They are not going to be able to lie to the commissioner, state and the trust. All of these stipulations will be written into the act of sale documents and signed off on by the league upon his approval. They will be legally bound to this plan. As they have come to find out the deal with the state and the team is impossible to break (not difficult, impossible). I have not even mentioned the threat from the state of testing the league's anti-trust exemption. You best believe that will 100% be the case if the league even considers letting them violate a contract that they also agreed to (which they won't). That is the scariest thing in the world to quite a few owners. Their franchise values will plummet if that ever happened. Obviously, those guys would never approve relocation. I really see no need to continue going round and round - it is pointless. There are SO, SO, SO, SO many roadblocks that have been instituted to prevent a relocation that even the groups that considered it have been forced to change course (JBJ) or drop out (Rogers). You are obviously not going to believe it until you see it but I am telling you that fight is over. The towel is been thrown in. JBJ used to be the scariest man in the world but not anymore. He is just great father and a terrible musician. Can I have one reason why you wouldnt want JBJ as an owner? The guy is well respected already by top NFL owners. It could only be good for the team IMO. Money, I think that there are other groups that have more resources to make the new stadium project a little easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Money, I think that there are other groups that have more resources to make the new stadium project a little easier. I guess that depends on Rogers. I know he is not bidding himself, but could still be involved. His relationship with Goodell would almost guarantee a Niagara Falls Super Bowl. That would make building a stadium easier IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Money, I think that there are other groups that have more resources to make the new stadium project a little easier. KJ, do you still think that it's a new stadium project come hell or high water, or is the notion of a RWS retrofit something that would be on the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) They will never win the bid then. These plans will be in motion long before the lease nears the out clause. They are not going to be able to lie to the commissioner, state and the trust. All of these stipulations will be written into the act of sale documents and signed off on by the league upon his approval. They will be legally bound to this plan. As they have come to find out the deal with the state and the team is impossible to break (not difficult, impossible). I have not even mentioned the threat from the state of testing the league's anti-trust exemption. You best believe that will 100% be the case if the league even considers letting them violate a contract that they also agreed to (which they won't). That is the scariest thing in the world to quite a few owners. Their franchise values will plummet if that ever happened. Obviously, those guys would never approve relocation. I really see no need to continue going round and round - it is pointless. There are SO, SO, SO, SO many roadblocks that have been instituted to prevent a relocation that even the groups that considered it have been forced to change course (JBJ) or drop out (Rogers). You are obviously not going to believe it until you see it but I am telling you that fight is over. The towel is been thrown in. JBJ used to be the scariest man in the world but not anymore. He is just great father and a terrible musician. Money, I think that there are other groups that have more resources to make the new stadium project a little easier. I agree. I appreciate your input. I am still firmly planted in my skepticism. If there are any opportunities for us the fans to tell the Toronto bidders that we do not trust them and will not support their quest for ownership then now is the time to act. If they do somehow win this bid then there is going to be a lot of uneasiness around WNY up until the day a lease is signed and a new stadium is built. I would much rather a local buyer win the bid and then that will be the day we will know we can celebrate and this dark cloud that has been hanging over us will finally dissipate Edited July 17, 2014 by kdiggz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I guess that depends on Rogers. I know he is not bidding himself, but could still be involved. His relationship with Goodell would almost guarantee a Niagara Falls Super Bowl. That would make building a stadium easier IMO. True, there were rumblings about the liquidity of his assets. I do not remember where I read that and am not sure if that is true. If he gets involved it relieves some of the financial issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I agree. I appreciate your input. I am still firmly planted in my skepticism. If there are any opportunities for us the fans to tell the Toronto bidders that we do not trust them and will not support their quest for ownership then now is the time to act. If they do somehow win this bid then there is going to be a lot of uneasiness around WNY up until the day a lease is signed and a new stadium is built. I would much rather a local buyer win the bid and then that will be the day we will know we can celebrate and this dark cloud that has been hanging over us will finally dissipate Also remember, all recent new owners in the NFL have not been local other than St Louis. Which team is most likely to move in the near future? St Louis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 KJ, do you still think that it's a new stadium project come hell or high water, or is the notion of a RWS retrofit something that would be on the table? Personally, I do not see the retrofit as an option. I think that the Bills need to rescale the stadium. They cannot have their best locations being sold at $70 a game or whatever they are. It will be really hard to do that at RWS. They really need a fresh start to get that more in line with the rest of the league. I agree. I appreciate your input. I am still firmly planted in my skepticism. If there are any opportunities for us the fans to tell the Toronto bidders that we do not trust them and will not support their quest for ownership then now is the time to act. If they do somehow win this bid then there is going to be a lot of uneasiness around WNY up until the day a lease is signed and a new stadium is built. I would much rather a local buyer win the bid and then that will be the day we will know we can celebrate and this dark cloud that has been hanging over us will finally dissipate I can certainly agree with all of that. I am still hoping for Pegula followed by Golisano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRQ_BillsFan Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) I agree it's not so much a fake plan as a plan with an out. If their thoughts were to leave after the lease, this is where they will fall back on we tried but could not make it work. No financial plan will be required to be rock solid 7-8 years down the road, they can't be as nothing is certain. I agree if jBJ's bid is backed by Toronto monies it is safe to assume the intent is to move to Toronto as soon as they are able. Anyone believing that things have changed is making a huge mistake. Edited July 17, 2014 by SRQ_BillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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