transient Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I honestly really hate people with two thumbs. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) As someone who can appreciate irony, I'm sure you can appreciate its presence in the fact that you've used the terms obtuse, pseudo-intellectual, farce, self-unaware, and "retarded" to characterize the content of my post... Yeah...because those are precisely the terms that are required to characterize it. Words mean things, and these words are exactly appropriate. Speaking of meanings of words, do you know what the word irony means? Because, I can't help but notice you didn't respond substantively to me calling your post "ironic". Let me help. Ironic: Your treatment of "stupid frat boys" is exactly equivalent to their, as projected by you, treatment of gays. You even use the word "sterotypical", to provide a handy underscore to your hypocrisy. The difference: I can't possibly know how "stupid frat boys" might or might not treat gays. However, I can know how you would treat millions of people you've never met, yet attribute both absolute behavior and mindset: you've posted it! (I always love Dr. Xavier mind-readers like yourself, who are capable of knowing what millions of "stupid frat boys", are all thinking, at the same time, now and forever. I mean, this is one hell of a trick you can pull off.) Nothing like blatant hypocrisy, couched in pretend morality. Nothing like self-congratulation, being represented as grace. I had thought that this was the sole province of the religious extremist, because I keep hearing that from the supposedly "enlightened". You've debunked that notion, and provided me a good bit of lulz in the process. Nice work. Edited May 11, 2014 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfBubbleGum Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 This is all stupid. If the Bills drafted him, I would cancel my season club seats and not watch football. It is about what is right and what is wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zevo Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 This is all stupid. If the Bills drafted him, I would cancel my season club seats and not watch football. It is about what is right and what is wrong! In 3, 2, 1....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) Yeah...because those are precisely the terms that are required to characterize it. Words mean things, and these words are exactly appropriate. Speaking of meanings of words, do you know what the word irony means? Because, I can't help but notice you didn't respond substantively to me calling your post "ironic". Let me help. Ironic: Your treatment of "stupid frat boys" is exactly equivalent to their, as projected by you, treatment of gays. You even use the word "sterotypical", to provide a handy underscore to your hypocrisy. The difference: I can't possibly know how "stupid frat boys" might or might not treat gays. However, I can know how you would treat millions of people you've never met, yet attribute both absolute behavior and mindset: you've posted it! (I always love Dr. Xavier mind-readers like yourself, who are capable of knowing what millions of "stupid frat boys", are all thinking, at the same time, now and forever. I mean, this is one hell of a trick you can pull off.) Nothing like blatant hypocrisy, couched in pretend morality. Nothing like self-congratulation, being represented as grace. I had thought that this was the sole province of the religious extremist, because I keep hearing that from the supposedly "enlightened". You've debunked that notion, and provided me a good bit of lulz in the process. Nice work. My brief prior response was a (failed) attempt to not involve myself in something that is clearly a crusade to you. In an effort to prevent this freight train of misrepresentation from going further off the tracks and have you cast yet further aspersions on my character... Regarding the "self-unaware irony" comment, I was quite aware of what I was writing, to the extent that I debated altering the phraseology to "frat boy mentality" as it might have been less likely to provoke a response such as yours, which was not the intent. The point you contort, however, is that I am directing this at fraternities, instead of at the NFL. Changing the order of the words to "stupid frat boy" changes the meaning, a fact that I suspect you realized given your clearly extensive grasp of the language. You then continue to bludgeon the reader with this sentiment so as to insinuate that I think all fraternity brothers are stupid. My intent was to invoke the "frat boy stereotype" (thus the word stereotypical and the quotation marks) as an example of behavior that is permeating the NFL, instead of having to walk the reader through every recent example of it. By way of disclosure, I have never been a member of a fraternity. I have many friends who pledged and joined fraternities when we were in college, and I'm sure that if I asked any one of them what the stereotype of a "frat boy" was, I would get a description that closely resembles the chauvinist, intolerant brothers depicted in Animal House, Revenge of the Nerds, or countless other movies. They probably also wouldn't be offended by my acknowledgement that there, in fact, is a stereotype unless I conveyed that that was my impression of my friends, specifically, or of fraternities, in general, which it is not. Unfortunately, with examples as recent as this offseason with Incognito, hazing and other personal abuses which I would associate with that STEREOTYPE are prevalent in the NFL. To the point about "right to acceptance," this is your agenda, not mine. My intent was to point out that the media was going out of their way to accept Michael Sam, and recognize the courage it took to go through this whole process as an openly gay male, and not just tolerate his existence, thus the extensive coverage. I was also pointing out that many outside of the sporting world regard this as a step that needed to be taken, and that even ESPN was appropriately cognizant of the significance of the moment. Let me be clear; I am aware of how I phrased that, and I did mean to take a shot at ESPN. I agree that the coverage was over the top, but no more so than what regularly occurs for the combine or draft itself, which is of less social importance, in my opinion. Regarding all of the other flattering and colorful language you've thrown my way, read through both of our posts on the matter. Which of us is more clearly defined by all of those terms that you so nicely offered to explain to me. If there was one thing I would change in my initial response, it would be the "It says something when even ESPN understands the significance of the moment," as on re-reading it could be construed as me taking a personal shot at jboyst, which was not my intent. Edited May 11, 2014 by transient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oman128 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) Situations that you know are going to happen in the NFL to Michael Sam. 1. A group of fans drunk in the stands will start chanting Gay guy. 2. Fans will probably throw things at him again probably cuz they're drunk or simply are haters, or have "colorful" signs. 3. Michael Sam makes a great play, intercepts a pass and takes it for a touchdown. What is the celebration like in the endzone? Is it normal with high fives, hugging, and slapping each other on the ass or not? 4. Will the announcers say he's the first openly gay man to score a touchdown? Does that create a new record in the NFL? I hope he can just play the game like everyone else. I wish him well. Edited May 12, 2014 by oman128 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode54 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 This is all stupid. If the Bills drafted him, I would cancel my season club seats and not watch football. It is about what is right and what is wrong! You are what is wrong with the world you !@#$! You have no way of knowing how many gay players played or do play currently for Buffalo. Sam was brave enough to come out. I am not gay, have a loving wife and a 4 month old daughter, and your dark age thinking is what drags people and society down. I for one am embarrased to be the fan of the same team as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Who f'in cares except liberal newswriters who are looking for a lazy way to fill their copy. If he keeps his affections out of the locker room, who cares. If he doesn't, then his harrassment will get him run out of there, just the same as if he was intruding on others in any other fashion that is unacceptable. I care. And I am not angry that others don't nor do I assume that they do or that they should. Hence the amount of coverage, be it too much, too little or too shallow, doesn't bother me. I would like to suggest however that for someone who doesn't "f'in care" you have some highly developed thoughts about his behavior in locker rooms. Suggesting, as you do, that this a valid concern, I wonder if you can point me to a study or some other body of evidence which justifies your deep concern for how gay men generally conduct themselves in locker rooms? Funny how his college teammates didn't seem to be bothered but perhaps they just don't understand gay people as well as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode54 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I care. And I am not angry that others don't nor do I assume that they do or that they should. Hence the amount of coverage, be it too much, too little or too shallow, doesn't bother me. I would like to suggest however that for someone who doesn't "f'in care" you have some highly developed thoughts about his behavior in locker rooms. Suggesting, as you do, that this a valid concern, I wonder if you can point me to a study or some other body of evidence which justifies your deep concern for how gay men generally conduct themselves in locker rooms? Funny how his college teammates didn't seem to be bothered but perhaps they just don't understand gay people as well as you do. very well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 This is all stupid. If the Bills drafted him, I would cancel my season club seats and not watch football. It is about what is right and what is wrong! Yes, it is about right and wrong. I can assure you that based on demographics, there is almost certainly at least one and likely two or three gay or bisexual players on the Bills at this very moment and they were either drafted by the Bills or signed by them. I want to be the first to say good luck to you in your future travels and that we will miss you. Just to show there are no hard feelings, let me save you the time in digging up the ticket office phone number to cancel you season tickets: Call Now Try watching curling, I hear its guaranteed gay free. I have a confession to make to the entire Bills fan base & NFL fans every where , I am a heterosexual ... WHO CARES X 1000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gay men everywhere are breathing a sigh of relief. Now, if you were the first heterosexual drafted in the NFL and if there was a history of discrimination against heterosexuals; and if, as a heterosexual you had to endure your sexuality being pathologized and your romantic interests labeled a disease; and if you were only legally allowed to marry members of your sex and could be arrested for having sex with a woman then your comparison would be dead on accurate. Totally. Stuck the landing. A 10 from the Russian judge. Well done. Add a few more exclamation points, you deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) It's interesting how society has changed. The overwhelming support even in this thread is proof that the battle is being won. I'm sure there's hundreds of people that have read this thread that disagree with Michael Sam's lifestyle and are afraid to comment. This is proof that change isn't coming - it's here. The tolerance has been achieved - because even those that disagree won't voice their opinion and have been silenced. It is no longer acceptable in the USA to object the gay lifestyle. Edited May 12, 2014 by Triple Threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garion Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I care. And I am not angry that others don't nor do I assume that they do or that they should. Hence the amount of coverage, be it too much, too little or too shallow, doesn't bother me. I would like to suggest however that for someone who doesn't "f'in care" you have some highly developed thoughts about his behavior in locker rooms. Suggesting, as you do, that this a valid concern, I wonder if you can point me to a study or some other body of evidence which justifies your deep concern for how gay men generally conduct themselves in locker rooms? Funny how his college teammates didn't seem to be bothered but perhaps they just don't understand gay people as well as you do. Agreed Do folks think Jackie Robinson was just another baseball player whom the liberal media makes too much of? If we were watching coverage of his entry into MLB would you say "who cares" But you will argue that's different because folks saying they don't approve of blacks mixing with whites in sports were clearly wrong but the followers of the "gay lifestyle" are an entirely different issue? May seem like that to some today but it also seemed pretty important to keep blacks out of white professional sports not that long ago. As a 7th round pick he isn't likely to have a great career but he broke a barrier here that lots of responses in this and the other thread are clearly showing proof still exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Yes, it is about right and wrong. I can assure you that based on demographics, there is almost certainly at least one and likely two or three gay or bisexual players on the Bills at this very moment and they were either drafted by the Bills or signed by them. I want to be the first to say good luck to you in your future travels and that we will miss you. Just to show there are no hard feelings, let me save you the time in digging up the ticket office phone number to cancel you season tickets: Call Now Try watching curling, I hear its guaranteed gay free. Gay men everywhere are breathing a sigh of relief. Now, if you were the first heterosexual drafted in the NFL and if there was a history of discrimination against heterosexuals; and if, as a heterosexual you had to endure your sexuality being pathologized and your romantic interests labeled a disease; and if you were only legally allowed to marry members of your sex and could be arrested for having sex with a woman then your comparison would be dead on accurate. Totally. Stuck the landing. A 10 from the Russian judge. Well done. Add a few more exclamation points, you deserve it. I wish more NFL fans realized this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlamnSam Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 what is so new about this story? Troy Aiekman came out many years ago when he was the cowboys qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 If the the Rams cut him because he's not a good football player will the media crucify them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintonfallsbillsfan Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 how many kids before sam were drafted and got a congratulations from the POTUS? I don't know if that is a reflection of our society, if that is a reflection of the significance of Sam or if it is a reflection of Obama. I am not going to let this be any more political then it is, but Obama had no reason to make any comment about the NFL draft and society has no business caring who Michael Sam chooses to have relations with. The president can comment on anything he wants too. You can listen or ignore it is your call why? why is it a huge moment? landing on the moon was a huge moment putting bacon on a cheeseburger was a huge moment the beattles on late night was a huge moment this is not a huge moment. this changes nothing in life, this changes nothing in society and if anything will only polarize the issues for many many millions of people who are offended by the simplicity of such a simple issue gaining such popularity in this country when it has no significance. it is a waste of a headline. it is news worthy but nothing of significance. I bet many said that when Jackie Robinson made his mlb debut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Sam is a.... Abstract According to orthodox psychoanalytical theory, narcissism and homosexuality are strongly associated. This association played a major role in pathologizing homosexuality. The present study compared self-esteem and two measures of narcissism among 90 homosexual and 109 heterosexual male students, who filled in a demographic questionnaire, Rosenberg's Self-Esteem Scale, the Narcissistic Personality Inventory, and the Pathological Narcissism Inventory, which addresses both grandiose and vulnerable subtypes of narcissism. The hypothesis, which is based on the Freudian connection between narcissism and homosexuality, is supported by the results, indicating that the homosexual students score higher in both measures of narcissism and lower on the self-esteem measure, compared to their heterosexual counterparts. Intra-psychic, as well as environmental, interpretations of the results are suggested in the discussion Linky: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20063233 That being said. Unlike some, I actually don’t care much that he’s slow and or undersized as a situational DE. I see many players that have succeeded at his weight and at his position in the NFL. All those guys had tremendous heart though. Does Michael Sam? Not sure, I think his handling of this whole thing is somewhat suspect as I have stated in previous threads, but that just might be the cynical in me. I personally think that he and his handlers made a calculated decision to come out, and then relax that narrative and suggest that this was really about football. I don’t buy that, and history shows that for most gay men, and a lot of gay women, their sexuality is precisely what defines their motivations. Sam knew in his heart of hearts that he had a very small chance of getting drafted. He knew that there was a very eager liberal media that would embrace his coming out in a sport that is personified by masculinity, and he knew that one way or the other, being drafted not being drafted, the cause of the LGBT movement would progress by virtue of the exposure it would demand. What I care about is the implicit bullying of NFL owners, and executives into submission. Does Sam get drafted if he does not come out? I dunno, no way of knowing, but probably not. He’s not very strong (for his size), he’s not very fast, and he’s not a prototypical DE in this league. There are many that went undrafted that were more in line with what NFL clubs expect from that position, albeit, less productive in college. Did the RAMS draft him out of pity? Did they draft him as a PR stunt? Are they ready to cut him, will they cut him? All very interesting story lines as we move to mini-camps. I for one am pulling for him, but I think we would all serve ourselves a teeny bit better if we at least look at possibility that this was all manufactured specifically because of the all-out left’s push for tolerance of LGBT issues. It was win-win for them, and a calculated move for Sam. Was it the right call? Well he did get drafted and has his shot. Did the RAMS really think this through? I guessing they didn’t because like it or not, all eyes are on the RAMS this pre-season, and they along with their players are going to be bombarded with all eyes on Sam. I think that this will bother a lot of what would otherwise be a normal NFL off season for the RAMS players and executives. Me? I would have drafted him if I thought we could really use him. His measurables do not add up to being selected, so I personally wouldn’t have drafted him. Coupled with the off-field circus would simply have made the decision that much easier. Teams need to focus on football at this time of year. Players don’t need distractions, and Sam is a big one, even though Sam himself will say all the right things and that this is about football, I (the cynic) believe it’s much more than that to Sam. Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 If the the Rams cut him because he's not a good football player will the media crucify them? Players not good enough to make the team get cut every year, so no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The president can comment on anything he wants too. You can listen or ignore it is your call I bet many said that when Jackie Robinson made his mlb debut I can ignore it all he wants. And I was not making a political statement. If I was to make one it would be much more coarse but in my opinion the only reason for any politics to be involved in this is only for headlines and show boating. There are much more important duties for members of our government to be worried about then an NFL player. Jackie Robinson has nothing to do with Michael Sam. But at that time I wouldn't have cared who was playing baseball, or any sport just like today. As long as they earned their spot and their coaching staff allows them, let them play. I don't care if it is a black midget tranny with pink hair that denies the holocaust and thinks that we never landed on the moon. Let'm play. It changes nothing, at least in my world. And for those affected by Michael Sam now playing in the NfL today who do not know him I can only question what things are important or not important in your life. It is great we have come so far to have a black man in office, a gay NFL player, NBA player and freedom of religious expression is allowed. But, call me a simple man and I'm just fine with that, it simply doesn't effect my life. A man or woman of any color or sexuality or religion is still just a man or woman to me. I only get offended when an agenda is pushed down my throat and I am supposed to believe that there is no narrative or political allegiance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 It's a continued step towards social equality for the LGBT community. It's a big deal, in that regard. To ignore that, is to be purposefully obtuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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