3rdand12 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Well let see here. I dont have an answer to the Williams> Incognito question. From what i have read , the Bills are thinking they will get more from this 1st round pick then he has performed so far . I think he is still a Legursky upgrade by a good bit. If by size only : ) Buddy has said you can find lineman later. I dont feel that way about tackles so much as guards . So i think they might see/spy an upgrade already in the later rounds. Ya gotta think the see a player(s) to develop beyond Urbik or Williams. I mean you have to right? It's not just aggressive play that gets it done. Thats just the prerequisite isn't it . Its the all the other stuff that makes a Professional . lastly i think he and Cordy should be tied at the waist and the to Wood and then.. The O line must be the most cohesive unit on the field . Good questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Well let see here. I dont have an answer to the Williams> Incognito question. From what i have read , the Bills are thinking they will get more from this 1st round pick then he has performed so far . I think he is still a Legursky upgrade by a good bit. If by size only : ) Buddy has said you can find lineman later. I dont feel that way about tackles so much as guards . So i think they might see/spy an upgrade already in the later rounds. Ya gotta think the see a player(s) to develop beyond Urbik or Williams. I mean you have to right? It's not just aggressive play that gets it done. Thats just the prerequisite isn't it . Its the all the other stuff that makes a Professional . lastly i think he and Cordy should be tied at the waist and the to Wood and then.. The O line must be the most cohesive unit on the field . Good questions Ok so A. You don't know if Williams is better than Incognito. That's not good. B. They "might" see an upgrade in the later rounds, fair enough. Let's assume they do. What if he gets taken before us? Uh oh! And what if Williams gets injured? The Legursky "I can't get two hands on a guy before he spins me in a circle" show again? C. Unless Cordy Glenn acts like Richie's friend while he seethes in pity and self doubt, doesn't tell anyone and quits on the spot, I think their "cohesion" will be just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Only possible problem I see is that we dont have a strong locker room. No one to put him in place or keep him in check. That said, I am very much in favor of it. It would be a cheap, incentive-laden deal. Almost no risk. Git 'er Done !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eme123 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Richie Incognito is a bully!! Winning in the NFL is a lot harder than dealing with some teamates childish garbage. If this roster can't deal with Incognito then they won't be winning many games anyway. I say bring the "bully" aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) Ok so A. You don't know if Williams is better than Incognito. That's not good. B. They "might" see an upgrade in the later rounds, fair enough. Let's assume they do. What if he gets taken before us? Uh oh! And what if Williams gets injured? The Legursky "I can't get two hands on a guy before he spins me in a circle" show again? C. Unless Cordy Glenn acts like Richie's friend while he seethes in pity and self doubt, doesn't tell anyone and quits on the spot, I think their "cohesion" will be just fine. A Do you think Your Richie is better then Williams ?B of course they do and they have options and counter options etc. c Its not that t simple. Of course Glenn and Woods will do their job. I dont think i like this style of dialogue. I have nothing to prove or have you believe . oops! My error of course. Good evening F C. see ya in the funny papers though Edited April 25, 2014 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) only sheltered people really thought he was a racist. This is what the world looks like to people with bizarre POVs. Everyone else disagrees with me, but since I'm obviously right - I agree with this opinion, so clearly I'm right - they must be sheltered. NOT accusing you of being the KKK or even having a viewpoint even slightly like theirs, but this is what they think, that they know the truth and everyone else is sheltered. It's what ALL the nutball groups think. They see the world clearly and everyone else sadly doesn't see how things really are. This wasn't just an example of an NFL locker room, it was an example of an extremely bad NFL locker room, a type of locker room that will not be tolerated in the future. I can see Incognito playing again somewhere down the road, but only in a group that has very strong leaders who will essentially tell him to shut it till he has something worthwhile to say. Edited April 25, 2014 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) People arguing about whether he is a racist or not miss the point. The point is he is a bully, with a willingness to pick on the weakness of an individual, consistently and remorselessly until he breaks that individual down. That's not a person who any NFL team, especially one with a young impressionable roster is ever going to take a chance on. The Wells report was pretty clear, Martin was far from Incognito's first target, this a repeating pattern of behaviour, This garbage is just as irritating as the "racism" b.s. Maybe he bullied Jonathan Martin and maybe he didn't. The ONLY evidence of this abuse is that Jonathan Martin had a melt down and then blamed his teammates. There is no evidence that Incognito was "remorselessly" or knowingly breaking that individual down, and you stating it as though it were fact tells us nothing more than that you're the kind of person who passes conjecture off as fact. And if you think the Wells report is an objective accounting of events you're a sucker. Edited April 25, 2014 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Grid Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Giving a guy a second chance is one thing...this would be ingocnito's 4th or 5th chance. He's an old guard that would barely be an upgrade over buffalo's worst one. Even if he wasn't was scum (not even counting the Miami meltdown) he'd play his way out of the league in a couple years. Bills are young and solid...may be nearing a positive tipping point....two many off field problem guys could tip things the wrong way. I'd prefer taking risks on young and talented players like Williams, Spikes or Britt than old and even more troubled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 This garbage is just as irritating as the "racism" b.s. Maybe he bullied Jonathan Martin and maybe he didn't. The ONLY evidence of this abuse is that Jonathan Martin had a melt down and then blamed his teammates. There is no evidence that Incognito was "remorselessly" or knowingly breaking that individual down, and you stating it as though it were fact tells us nothing more than that you're the kind of person who passes conjecture off as fact. And if you think the Wells report is an objective accounting of events you're a sucker. Perfectly objective, no. But yeah, the Wells report was pretty close. And the evidence really is there, absolutely, for remorselessness. It's not some kind of mistake that the NFL agreed with the Wells Report, the Fins agreed and got rid of the guys who'd been involved, all the teams backed it up and the media called it a solid job in overwhelming numbers. Giving a guy a second chance is one thing...this would be ingocnito's 4th or 5th chance. This. Good post. I agree with the rest of it too, but this is just dead on target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Marrone said that he billieves in giving guys second chances. Richie is an !@#$, but we can be OUR !@#$! He is a hell of a guard (one of our biggest needs), i don't care how ****ty of a person he is, if he can contribute to our football that's all that matters. You want to have more primetime games, sign his dude give EJ some protection and win some !@#$ing games. I don't care about high character guys, I want mean !@#$ing dudes looking to tear some bitches heads off. For once I can agree with a "lets bring in this guy" thread. That still doesn't make it ok for every other moronic "let's bring in(insert stupid, useless washed up, never-has-been garbage QB name here)" thread to exist.... God knows we've seen more than enough of those around here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 RI was an all pro in 2012, so yeah he's alot better then anyone we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Perfectly objective, no. But yeah, the Wells report was pretty close. And the evidence really is there, absolutely, for remorselessness. It's not some kind of mistake that the NFL agreed with the Wells Report, the Fins agreed and got rid of the guys who'd been involved, all the teams backed it up and the media called it a solid job in overwhelming numbers. That's a fairly selective interpretation. Of course the NFL and media guys agreed with it. The media pushed that narrative, and Wells and the NFL gave them a watered down version of the story they'd pushed. That was the most obvious and probable outcome from the outset. The counter to that is the number of guys from that locker room that took Incognito's back (and how few took Martin's back). I think it was Tyson Clabo who said of one of the incidents of the Wells report that a particular event in that report may have been factually accurate insofar as the event took place and the same things were said, but the way in which it took place was completely mischaracterized. As far as the remorselessness bit, I'm not standing here like some others pretending I know what happened. From the evidence that's come forward it's entirely possible that Incognito, Jerry, and Pouncey got their kicks trying to destroy Martin emotionally. On the other hand, it's quite possible that they all thought Martin was a part of their clique and the **** talking and ball busting was all in good fun amongst friends. It's entirely possible that Martin was melting down on the inside, but putting up a front on the outside, like he's in on the joke, and that they couldn't see through the facade. My opinion is that those who chime in with great certainty are telling us nothing about Incognito or Martin, but are rather telling us a lot about themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Marrone said that he billieves in giving guys second chances. Richie is an !@#$, but we can be OUR !@#$! He is a hell of a guard (one of our biggest needs), i don't care how ****ty of a person he is, if he can contribute to our football that's all that matters. You want to have more primetime games, sign his dude give EJ some protection and win some !@#$ing games. I don't care about high character guys, I want mean !@#$ing dudes looking to tear some bitches heads off. I'm for Ritchie We rented him for 2 months and let him leave. bc we were stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) This garbage is just as irritating as the "racism" b.s. Maybe he bullied Jonathan Martin and maybe he didn't. The ONLY evidence of this abuse is that Jonathan Martin had a melt down and then blamed his teammates. There is no evidence that Incognito was "remorselessly" or knowingly breaking that individual down, and you stating it as though it were fact tells us nothing more than that you're the kind of person who passes conjecture off as fact. And if you think the Wells report is an objective accounting of events you're a sucker. Have you read the Wells report? And I mean actually read it? Not read the summary or read the media reports of it, but actually read the report? There is plenty of evidence which I honeslty believe leads anyone following logic and reason to the interpretation that I reached and seemingly that Ted Wells reached having thoroughly reviewed what was in front of him. There is as the report concluded a clear "pattern of harrassment". But you disagree because you think the report is some kind of stitch up. You think the media, the NFL and Ted Wells conived to stitch up that nice Richie Incognito chap, based on the word of someone who "had a melt down". Firstly your use of the phrase "melt down" trivialises what actually happened to Jonathan Martin. Secondly, do you have any idea of Ted Wells' background? Even if I accept that the NFL and the media had some interest in pushing a narrative of Incognito as a bully (which I don't) why on earth would Ted Wells feel bound by that narrative. This guy is one of the top attorneys in America. A guy who has excelled as a criminal lawyer and as a corporate lawyer, not just domestically but internationally. What possible reason is there for him to be a patsy to the NFL?? None. He has far more to lose through that than he possibly has to gain. This was a highly qualified and very experienced guy doing an extremely thorough job. If you wish to believe differently that is your prerogative, but forgive me if that leads me to question your objectivity rather than that of Mr Wells. Edited April 25, 2014 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 RI was an all pro in 2012, so yeah he's alot better then anyone we have I'm not sure that's correct...I believe he made the pro bowl as a 2nd alternate. Yes, he'd be an upgrade over Legursky; not so sure he'd be an upgrade over Williams. Either way, I'll still pass--he's an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Jax Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 For the dim, let me explain that: We are going from making a terrible charge about someones character, to guilt by media sensationalism, to "it doesn't matter if I can't back up what I'm saying, because I already said it, because I'm parroting somebody else who said it, and can't back it up either, and thus, that's the perception". F that. We do all of that like it's nothing? What. The. !@#$. When we are talking about racism, real racism, that's not a charge to throw around like it's nothing. That is because real racism is threat to all of us, as it makes this country unable to function as designed. When you throw "racism" around without proof, you desensitize people to real racism. We have fought many kinds of wars to destroy real racism, and the memory of those we have lost in that fight doesn't deserve to be trivialized by assclowns with an ulterior motive/seeking personal gain. It is dishonor. Snipped your message for brevity, but I totally agree with all of what you wrote....Nice job! I would say that about 90% of the public has no clue as to the actual definition of "racism", and they throw that term around so frequently, that it's laughable and preposterous to those of us who do know the definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 He was a second team pro bowler. He is an upgrade over our roster. To me it's simply a logical flier. League minimum with incentives. He's desperate to get back, and the person stating we have a weak locker room is wrong. Do you think Kyle Williams and Eric Wood would tolerate crap. No way. Besides he needs to play so he would be on his best behavior. I would bring him into camp and see if he is better. Marrone is an old line coach so he can figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) After doing some research on Chris Williams , the Bills could be better off with Richie on a very short leash. Richie at LG and Lewan at RT would be interesting. Edited April 25, 2014 by ALF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Irrespective of his physical tools, Incognito is a problem....stay away from him. Would you transplant cancer into your body ? (locker room, I mean) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraq Vet Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) Sign him after the draft. You draft a Guard in the 3rd or 4th Rd. See what you have... then sign him. You can cut him in camp if he is an issue. Edited April 25, 2014 by Iraq Vet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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