Please sign Richie Incognito

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Admittedly, I haven't followed the "Incognito saga" as closely as some folks on here. Is there the potential for him to face any disciplinary action (i.e., suspension) for his part in this situation? I'm not saying he should or should not...just wondering.

[FireChan]

 

 

I'm not sure that's correct...I believe he made the pro bowl as a 2nd alternate.

 

Yes, he'd be an upgrade over Legursky; not so sure he'd be an upgrade over Williams.

 

Either way, I'll still pass--he's an idiot.

 

He's graded higher than Williams in every metric. That sounds like he's better.

[Rocky Landing]

We should bring Incognito in to help keep Mike Williams in line.

[Rob's House]

Have you read the Wells report? And I mean actually read it? Not read the summary or read the media reports of it, but actually read the report? There is plenty of evidence which I honeslty believe leads anyone following logic and reason to the interpretation that I reached and seemingly that Ted Wells reached having thoroughly reviewed what was in front of him. There is as the report concluded a clear "pattern of harrassment".

 

But you disagree because you think the report is some kind of stitch up. You think the media, the NFL and Ted Wells conived to stitch up that nice Richie Incognito chap, based on the word of someone who "had a melt down". Firstly your use of the phrase "melt down" trivialises what actually happened to Jonathan Martin.

 

Secondly, do you have any idea of Ted Wells' background? Even if I accept that the NFL and the media had some interest in pushing a narrative of Incognito as a bully (which I don't) why on earth would Ted Wells feel bound by that narrative. This guy is one of the top attorneys in America. A guy who has excelled as a criminal lawyer and as a corporate lawyer, not just domestically but internationally. What possible reason is there for him to be a patsy to the NFL?? None. He has far more to lose through that than he possibly has to gain. This was a highly qualified and very experienced guy doing an extremely thorough job. If you wish to believe differently that is your prerogative, but forgive me if that leads me to question your objectivity rather than that of Mr Wells.

 

I have not read the entire Wells report, but if there is compelling evidence within that report that you found persuasive and you're able to summarize it, that would be much appreciated. So far from what I have read of the report and the summaries and commentaries surrounding it - well, let's just say if this were a criminal matter I'm yet to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm really curious what about this "pattern of harrassment" has you so certain.

 

To your second point, you're doing exactly what you accuse me of. I didn't suggest this was some grand conspiracy between the NFL, media, and Ted Wells, and I find it more than a bit disingenuos of you to make such an insinuation (unless nuance just isn't your thing). The whole thing is a lot more subtle than that, and I thought the Clabo comments made that clear. Wells is a lawyer who was paid to do a job for his client. I didn't suggest for a second that he fabricated any of it. I merely suggested that he may have characterized the events he accurately reported in a way that slants toward the narrative that protects his client's image - If you think that's an outlandish scenario perhaps hou may be a bit naive.

 

And finally, you, not I, are the one pretending to know the truth of the matter. I suggested there are other reasonable inferences to be drawn from the events as they've been reported and gave an example of one such inference. You said Ted Wells is JFK meets Jesus Christ and thus his word is the gospel.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Rob's House

[LB3]

 

 

He's graded higher than Williams in every metric. That sounds like he's better.

 

There's no reason to lie to make a point FC. Every metric? Every single one?

[FireChan]

 

 

There's no reason to lie to make a point FC. Every metric? Every single one?

 

Hyperbole gets the best of me. Still, RI grades higher.

[K-9]

He's graded higher than Williams in every metric. That sounds like he's better.

 

How does he grade out on the "mental stability" metric? Or do we have to wait for him to beat the crap out of another unsuspecting luxury automobile to find out?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[mousetrap08]

WHAT!

[GunnerBill]

I have not read the entire Wells report, but if there is compelling evidence within that report that you found persuasive and you're able to summarize it, that would be much appreciated. So far from what I have read of the report and the summaries and commentaries surrounding it - well, let's just say if this were a criminal matter I'm yet to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm really curious what about this "pattern of harrassment" has you so certain.

 

To your second point, you're doing exactly what you accuse me of. I didn't suggest this was some grand conspiracy between the NFL, media, and Ted Wells, and I find it more than a bit disingenuos of you to make such an inference (unless nuance just isn't your thing). The whole thing is a lot more subtle than that, and I thought the Clabo characterization made that clear. Wells is a lawyer who was paid to do a job for his client. I didn't suggest for a second that he fabricated any of it. I merely suggested that he may have characterized the events he accurately reported in a way that slants toward the narrative that protects his client's image - If you think that's an outlandish scenario perhaps hou may be a bit naive.

 

And finally, you, not I, are the one pretending to know the truth of the matter. I suggested there are other reasonable inferences to be drawn from the events as they've been reported and gave an example of one such inference. You said Ted Wells is JFK meets Jesus Christ and thus his word is the gospel.

 

I never said anything like that, behave yourself. I said he is an entirely reputable guy who has much more to lose acting as a patsy to the NFL than he has to gain, that much is clear. He wasn't representing a client here. He was tasked, by the NFL, to conduct an objective assessment of the evidence. That is exactly what he did and his conclusions are very clearly set out in the report. You are suggesting he was appointed to come to conclusions that supported the narrative. I'm suggesting that is a slur on his professional character. Let me tell you from my own experience, the one thing international attorney's hate more than anything else is being told what they think. I simply refuse to accept that Wells went into this with anything other than a totally open mind.

 

And this isn't a criminal matter. Clearly. So far as I'm aware Martin has not made a police complaint. This is an NFL investigation, the NFL is not a law enforcement agency and thereby any disciplinary matter dealt with by the NFL has to be considered not against reasonable doubt, but against the balance of probabilities. Mr Wells against that standard of proof concluded that there was evidence of a "pattern of harrasment." Having read the report myself I can only say that I entirely endorse his view. Now what I do not deny is that there could be evidence that contradicts that view that was ommitted from the report. That is where I believe it becomes a question of the author's credibility, but for someone who has not read the report to attempt to suggest that this is just Ted Wells putting a slant on the evidence that suits "his client" by which I presume you mean the NFL is, in my view, disingenuous at best.

 

EDIT: The one thing I do not doubt is that Incognito is done. No GM has even considered kicking the tyres on him yet, and those guys will all have contacts to do their own research beyond the contents of the report. I can only conclude that they also believe that the pattern of harrassment was established and was not out of character with what has gone before in Incognito's career. I do not see a way back.

Edited April 25, 2014 by GunnerBill

[MILFHUNTER#518]

I don't see a place for him on our defense. Not because of character, but because our line is already relatively stacked... He will just cost too much to be signed as a 2nd string defensive lineman

[Rob's House]

I never said anything like that, behave yourself. I said he is an entirely reputable guy who has much more to lose acting as a patsy to the NFL than he has to gain, that much is clear. He wasn't representing a client here. He was tasked, by the NFL, to conduct an objective assessment of the evidence. That is exactly what he did and his conclusions are very clearly set out in the report. You are suggesting he was appointed to come to conclusions that supported the narrative. I'm suggesting that is a slur on his professional character. Let me tell you from my own experience, the one thing international attorney's hate more than anything else is being told what they think. I simply refuse to accept that Wells went into this with anything other than a totally open mind.

Never suggested he was told what to think, the NFL hired him and thus is his client, and burning your client on the most high profile assignment you've ever had is bad for business.

And this isn't a criminal matter. Clearly. So far as I'm aware Martin has not made a police complaint. This is an NFL investigation, the NFL is not a law enforcement agency and thereby any disciplinary matter dealt with by the NFL has to be considered not against reasonable doubt, but against the balance of probabilities. Mr Wells against that standard of proof concluded that there was evidence of a "pattern of harrasment." Having read the report myself I can only say that I entirely endorse his view. Now what I do not deny is that there could be evidence that contradicts that view that was ommitted from the report. That is where I believe it becomes a question of the author's credibility, but for someone who has not read the report to attempt to suggest that this is just Ted Wells putting a slant on the evidence that suits "his client" by which I presume you mean the NFL is, in my view, disingenuous at best.

Never suggested that it was a criminal matter, nor did I suggest the NFL was held to a reasonable doubt standard. I was making a point about the level of certainty. I haven't read the ACA in it's entirety either, but I've read enough and studied enough to draw some conclusions. I invited you to share any compelling evidence you came upon while reading it.

EDIT: The one thing I do not doubt is that Incognito is done. No GM has even considered kicking the tyres on him yet, and those guys will all have contacts to do their own research beyond the contents of the report. I can only conclude that they also believe that the pattern of harrassment was established and was not out of character with what has gone before in Incognito's career. I do not see a way back.

I didn't like Incognito before this story broke.

[mountainwampus]

IMO, a quality Guard needs to know how to HARASS the D-line. That is what Incognito does and it's effective. This is why the Texans' DE ripped off Richie's helmet and tried to hit him with it. He frustrates the D-line with his technically sound play and he has rare upper body strength for an OL. He might have a few 15 yard personal fouls but he's drawn them on the other team just as much. I personally thought he was better than any other guard we've had (in many years) when he played those 3 games in '09. He was pivotal in Fred Jackson's 212 yard rushing day vs Indy.

Edited April 25, 2014 by mountainwampus

[GunnerBill]

Never suggested he was told what to think, the NFL hired him and thus is his client, and burning your client on the most high profile assignment you've ever had is bad for business.

 

This is not his biggest assignment clearly. It certainly won't be anywhere near his biggest payday. It might be the thing to which his name ends up attached on google searches but there we go.

[CountryCletus]

I can't help but laugh at grown men calling other grown men "bullies"....

 

He's just an a s s h o l e..... And we could use a couple on our O-Line

[C.Biscuit97]

The entire NFL doesn't want him. If he was as valuable as some think and not a complete piece of crap, he'd be in the league. No one, in a league that gives a ton of chances, wants him.

[CSBill]

Didn't we already have this discussion?

[Iraq Vet]

Sign him ASAP! My dream of an all-jackass team with attitude is coming true. Mike Williams, Spikes, Stevie J..... This team needs attitude!

Edited April 25, 2014 by Iraq Vet

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Is he better than Legursky? The answer is yes, that's the end of the argument.

 

Sorry, saying "is he better than Legursky, yes, end of argument" does not seem to invoke any facts.

Though it is a pretty effective way to end (by failing to have) a discussion.

 

Here's food for thought:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamOL.php

 

Buffalo (Legursky and all) has had a better OL than MIA even last year. St Louis (last year's home of our FA LG signing) had a better OL than either.

Is Incognito a better LG than Williams? I'm interested in facts and technical analysis - not "he just is".

 

I don't see a place for him on our defense. Not because of character, but because our line is already relatively stacked... He will just cost too much to be signed as a 2nd string defensive lineman

 

Are you for real?

Edited April 25, 2014 by Hopeful

[FireChan]

 

 

Sorry, saying "is he better than Legursky, yes, end of argument" does not seem to invoke any facts.

Though it is a pretty effective way to end (by failing to have) a discussion.

 

Here's food for thought:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamOL.php

 

Buffalo (Legursky and all) has had a better OL than MIA even last year. St Louis (last year's home of our FA LG signing) had a better OL than either.

Is Incognito a better LG than Williams? I'm interested in facts and technical analysis - not "he just is".

 

 

 

Are you for real?

 

Richie didn't even play the full year, so those numbers are irrelevant.

 

Richie Incognito was the 9th best interior O-lineman in 2012. What was Legursky?

 

I already said I don't know if Williams is better than Incognito, but I don't know if he isn't either.

 

You should stop using team or unit stats for individual players though. It doesn't make sense.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

I honestly thought he was still under contract, I was wrong. You have to remember he is 30 yrs old, so he should be a short term signing to the tune of oh lets say 2 years 1 million per base with some incentives... With money removed I think he would make a decent addition to our O-Line, we need some swagger. I don't want a princess guarding our most valuable asset, E.J. I want an unapologetic @$$hole who will do whatever it takes to keep E.J. standing up. This "bullying" stuff is absolute hogwash.