thewildrabbit Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I hope the NFL and the other owners understand that if the Bills move to Toronto, they will lose a significant number of current fans. I am concerned that a winning bid from a group that wants to move the team to Toronto will be perceived as a postive for Bills fans since Toronto is within driving distance. It is not. If the price gets to $1.5 billion, it will be tougher for an owner that wants to keep the team in Buffalo, particularly if the new owner used debt to fund part of the purchase price. I'm quite certain that they won't care. 42,540 season ticket holders for 2013 in a stadium that holds 73,967. " The Bills’ season ticket totals over the past 10 years: 2013 – 42,540; 2012 – 43,265; 2011 – 37,355; 2010 – 43,925; 2009 – 55,194; 2008 – 56,011; 2007 – 48,236; 2006 – 43,187; 2005 – 47,246; 2004 – 42,553." http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/bills-notebook-season-ticket-sales-drop-slightly-from-12-20130905 Should JBJ win the bid with his group, then they will more then likely start the process of building a new stadium in Toronto. The team will then move up north after the lease is up, or when the stadium is finished. The new owners will probably change the name to to disassociate themselves from the last 20 years of losing culture when they move. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24275196/jon-bon-jovi-interested-in-purchasing-the-buffalo-bills Toronto has a population of 2.79 million and is close to the population of Chicago at 2.80 million, which is the 4th largest city in North America. Toronto has nearly everything in sports already, Blue Jays (MLB) Maple Leafs (NHL) Raptors(NBA) plus pro soccer, and Lacrosse teams. Along with a plethora of minor league teams. All they lack is an NFL team, and the fan base would go nuts to buy tickets to their very own NFL team IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 That's something we don't know. That would be a part of the trust document. Unless you are in the family or an executor of the estate one would be hard pressed to know that info. I could be wrong, but just from reading what everyone else has, I have a hard time believing that the Bills will be sold to a group with plans to move them. Say the trust has to sell to the highest bidder. Well, that bidder can buy the team, but still has to be approved by the league. And the trust has no say in that as far as I can tell. So I think the highest bidder claim is erroneous. I think it would more likely be the highest bidder who can gain league approval. If one is needed, that is where the fix could come in. But I don't believe there will need to be a fix. I don't think the league wants to see the Bills relocated. And I believe there are groups out there with enough money to bid competitively with any group including Bon Jovi's potential group. Because WNY itself is not economically prosperous in general does not mean there are no people there, or with ties, with the money to play the game. We already know the usual suspects who do have that type of money. There are most likely others. As I said, my guess is the Bills next potential owner is known to the estate and the league, but not the public. People who talk at this point (Trump, Bon Jovi) want to get in the game; meaning they want to climb the list of potentials. If they were at the top of the list they would need to say nothing because they are where they want to be already. Notice how quiet all of the usual suspects have been about buying the Bills (Pegula, Gundlach, Golisano) or making statements that leave what they don't say more important (Jacobs). Real business is not discussed in public. The public finds out about mergers and acquisitions, usually, when it's already set to be voted on for approval. Not before. When the Sabres got sold I don't recall Terry Pegula being a name prominently mentioned, if he ever was. Thanks.............As for your last sentence, it wasn't really out there that Golisano had the Sabres for sale, and I don't think he did - this unknown guy from PA just called him up with an offer he couldn't refuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasjuggler Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I. Just upped my bid on EBay to 1.1 billion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Why do you think they can afford it? And if they can they aren't the only groups with money. Bills are probably going nowhere. And whoever the next owner is will probably be a name/s we haven't heard of before it happens. And they will be the name who will also keep the Bills in WNY. I get the vibe that the Bills have more support in the league/$ circles than some want to believe. I also don't think Mrs. Wilson is selling to anyone who would move the team. There are never guarantees, but this is the strong vibe I get. Believe me I want the Bills to stay in Buffalo no matter who owns them. The Bills are like an extended part of my family. I'm just saying if the Milwaukee Bucks sold 550mil then surely an NFL team is going to sell for much more. Hopefully Pugula, Jacobs or even Trump can merge together and take out all bids. The Bon Jovi group is scary though and even more scary is the Rogers group which is valued over 7 billion dollars. Those guys got serious money and they've been awfully quiet. Plus they've had discussions over the yrs with OBD so essentially they've got a foot in the door already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I'm sure people won't believe me, but here goes. Being from New Jersey, I have a good friend who works in the music industry. It just so happens his boss is a good friend of Bon Jovi's. Long story short, he called me yesterday to tell me he heard from his boss Bon Jovi and his Toronto backers have put their bid in for the Bills and it's for 1 Billion. Now I know no one on this forum has any reason to believe me, and I don't expect you to. However, I have no reason not to believe my friend, as his connection to Bon Jovi is real and something I've joked with him for years (I hate his music). I rarely post on here and have no reason to make this up. Anyway, like I said believe it if you want. My real question to everyone is this though, assuming this is true. Do you think 1 Billion is enough to get the Bills? Is this a nail in the coffin, or is 1 Billion not enough. Thoughts? Mary and fam are going to make out like bandits. Bon Jovi must die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I. Just upped my bid on EBay to 1.1 billion. No Buy it Now option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokinES3 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 We'll win the Super Bowl as the Bills last game as the Buffalo Bills! Ugh... thanks for the image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) I obviously disagree. Any city building a new stadium for the relocated Bills would have to do so without even a tentative deal from the team, as the lease forbids the team from even planning a relocation during the lease term. Or do you think an out of town owner will easily win a court battle with Erie County, then pay the $400 M in damages and then get a stadium built? Seems like a bridge too far to me. Schumer's relationship with Goodell and his position on the Senate Finance Committee puts him in a position to threaten the NFL's tax exempt status. Don't you think that that tax exempt status is worth more to the NFL than any revenue deficiency caused by a Buffalo-based team? The NFL knows where it's bread is buttered. And we've not even discussed any provisions of the Wilson estate which could favor a local owner. But I guess I'm not as imaginative as you are, Code. We do disagree and that's fine. But if you know someone with experience in these matters, ask them to look at the lease and related documents on the county web site and see if you still think it is impossible to move the team before the end of the current lease. Never said it would be easy or cheap, but possible. And they could decide it's best to run out the lease while building a stadium. All a city would need is a commitment for after the current lease. You really believe that cannot happen? The new owner could decide to build their own stadium as well and not leech off of taxpayers. The Toronto group for example seems to own their facilities. Lots of possibilities. As far as Senator Chuck, he cannot by himself change the anti-trust status of the NFL. The other politicians will not effectively kill the NFL along with any hope of their reelection simply to keep a team in Buffalo NY. The NFL knows this, as does Senator Chuck I'm sure. Nothing happens but some noise. Chuckles saves his job because he is seen as at least trying to keep the team in the area. Politics as usual. It doesn't take much imagination at all. Just logic and the willingness to see all the possibilities, not just the one you prefer. Again, what you are saying is also a possibility. My crystal ball is in the shop so I cannot see into the future. But nothing wrong with a little healthy disagreement. Edited April 19, 2014 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 its a football team, not a sick relative..... im pretty sure a large cross section of the buffalo area fans would check out quickly. Not me. I'd buy every ticket I could get my hands on and I'd sure as hell be there every game I could Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Forbes valued the Bills at 870 million this past August so 1 billion should be a reasonably strong bid I would think (15% over valuation). The Forbes value means absolutely nothing. The value of the Bills will be the price the winning bidder pays. Nothing more, nothing less. On a different note, I don't know the details of the lease, but wouldn't it actually allow a move to Toronto? I believe it says the Bills have to remain in their current market and thanks to Russ, it could be argued Toronto is within the Bills market. Edited April 20, 2014 by kas23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Not me. I'd buy every ticket I could get my hands on and I'd sure as hell be there every game I could me too. Forget the grudge. I'll be there cheering while we still have the team. Hoping for a SB before it's all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Toronto has a population of 2.79 million and is close to the population of Chicago at 2.80 million, which is the 4th largest city in North America. Toronto has nearly everything in sports already, Blue Jays (MLB) Maple Leafs (NHL) Raptors(NBA) plus pro soccer, and Lacrosse teams. Along with a plethora of minor league teams. All they lack is an NFL team, and the fan base would go nuts to buy tickets to their very own NFL team IMO. So if I'm the league or a league owner, keeping the Bills in Buffalo and selling an expansion franchise to the Toronto group is what I would want. Big money in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) I obviously disagree. Any city building a new stadium for the relocated Bills would have to do so without even a tentative deal from the team, as the lease forbids the team from even planning a relocation during the lease term. Or do you think an out of town owner will easily win a court battle with Erie County, then pay the $400 M in damages and then get a stadium built? Seems like a bridge too far to me. Schumer's relationship with Goodell and his position on the Senate Finance Committee puts him in a position to threaten the NFL's tax exempt status. Don't you think that that tax exempt status is worth more to the NFL than any revenue deficiency caused by a Buffalo-based team? The NFL knows where it's bread is buttered. And we've not even discussed any provisions of the Wilson estate which could favor a local owner. But I guess I'm not as imaginative as you are, Code. As there has been some confusion-- even in the press-- about what a new Bills owner may, or may not plan for the future of the Bills, I finally just went and found an online copy of the Non-Relocation Agreement and read it for myself. (Here is the link: http://www2.erie.gov...n Agreement.pdf )Unfortunately, I think you are wrong regarding the building of a stadium to which the Bills would be relocated. Sections 3, and 4 deal with this issue. The agreement states that the Bills may not "enter into any contract or agreement to sell, assign or otherwise transfer the Team to any Person who, to the Bills’ knowledge, intends to relocate, transfer or otherwise move the Team during the Non-Relocation Term to a location other than the Stadium." That phrase, "during the Non-Relocation Term" is reiterated several times in sections 3, and 4. Note that there is no comma in the phrase, "...transfer or otherwise move the Team during the Non-Relocation Term to a location other than the Stadium." In other words, there is no language in the Non-Relocation Agreement barring the Bills from selling the team to a person who intends to relocate the Bills after the Non-Relocation Term. That's how I read it. Edited April 20, 2014 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I was going to post examples of contracts that were shredded by attorneys, legislators, wealthy owners, etc., but I ran out of space.... One thing to bank on is that the new owners will do what they set out to do despite contracts, promises, legislation or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 me too. Forget the grudge. I'll be there cheering while we still have the team. Hoping for a SB before it's all over. This is like cheering for your wife as she cheats on you knowing she has her bags packed and is just sponging off you until her new boyfriend has a house built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondslider Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) I'm quite certain that they won't care. 42,540 season ticket holders for 2013 in a stadium that holds 73,967. " The Bills’ season ticket totals over the past 10 years: 2013 – 42,540; 2012 – 43,265; 2011 – 37,355; 2010 – 43,925; 2009 – 55,194; 2008 – 56,011; 2007 – 48,236; 2006 – 43,187; 2005 – 47,246; 2004 – 42,553." http://www.buffalone...rom-12-20130905 Should JBJ win the bid with his group, then they will more then likely start the process of building a new stadium in Toronto. The team will then move up north after the lease is up, or when the stadium is finished. The new owners will probably change the name to to disassociate themselves from the last 20 years of losing culture when they move. http://www.cbssports...e-buffalo-bills Toronto has a population of 2.79 million and is close to the population of Chicago at 2.80 million, which is the 4th largest city in North America. Toronto has nearly everything in sports already, Blue Jays (MLB) Maple Leafs (NHL) Raptors(NBA) plus pro soccer, and Lacrosse teams. Along with a plethora of minor league teams. All they lack is an NFL team, and the fan base would go nuts to buy tickets to their very own NFL team IMO. Yup. The NFL would look at it as a huge upgrade and if nobody from WNY ever attended the games or bought a single piece of merchandise the team would still do extremely well in Toronto and Buffalo would be an afterthought. Buffalo needs the NFL more than the NFL needs Buffalo. Edited April 20, 2014 by Pondslider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 To "Celebrity" owners. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 To "Celebrity" owners. . On principle, I agree. In reality, most of them beyond the very, very old and uninvolved ones become celebrities of a type. Some are more out there like Snyder, Kraft and Jerry Jones. But I agree, I would prefer that it's someone for whom owning the team signals a passion (Bon Jovi's characterization notwithstanding) for Buffalo and for football -- not a simple vanity exercise, which is what I believe it would be for most of the celebs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Yup. The NFL would look at it as a huge upgrade and if nobody from WNY ever attended the games or bought a single piece of merchandise the team would still do extremely well in Toronto and Buffalo would be an afterthought. Buffalo needs the NFL more than the NFL needs Buffalo. No city needs a NFL team. A subset of a cities population really wants and enjoys the team. Some cities have a higher percentage than others, but no cities economy depends upon the NFL and it's 8 home games a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 No city needs a NFL team. A subset of a cities population really wants and enjoys the team. Some cities have a higher percentage than others, but no cities economy depends upon the NFL and it's 8 home games a season. While I generally agree with you, how much sports bar business, grocery store business, and other purchases ancillary to RWS in-game or surrounding-the-game would be lost? I think that having a large part of the population decide that NFL football is dead to them would be a big blow for some businesses. Now, it's reasonable to suggest that that money would be re-allocated / spent on other things that will stimulate the economy just as well if not better, but I think there is simply more to the story than the 8 home games per season. There is a lot of money spent that has a heavy association with the Bills and their presence in the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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