maddenboy Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) What's my point? If you want to maximize the strength of your franchise it starts with QB play and everything else is a distant second. IMO the Bills and their fans traditionally talk themselves out of facing this fact and the net result is a kind of reverse synergy.......the team continually being worse than the sum of their parts and lacking any kind of identity. If Johnny Manziel is there, you take the guy and don't look back. I wish I had written this paragraph. I would not change a word. My sentiments exactly. And I wanted EJ badly. But . . . . Edited April 19, 2014 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Unfortunately for us it looks like after hearing there could be 3 QBs in the top 10, now there might be 0 QBs in the top 10... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Unfortunately for us it looks like after hearing there could be 3 QBs in the top 10, now there might be 0 QBs in the top 10... I wouldn't go that far, but all 3 going in the top ten doesn't look nearly as likely as it once did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 http://www.ourlads.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/ - 3 QB in the first 8. Bills take Mack as CLE takes Bridgewater and OAK takes Sammy Watkins. You never know in the Smoke-Mirrors season. Wait until mock draft sites have to submit their mocks for judging the week of the draft. Astro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I'm saying that I'm not remotely sold on any of this year's QB prospects enough to spend a high pick, and thus would prefer to wait and grab a guy (Murray for example) with (I believe) just as much potential as the 1st round prospects in a later round to be the fallback option. I just feel that there's too much talent at the top of this draft to pick a QB high when they just aren't great prospects IMO. I love conversations like this and I am NOT trying to argue nor split hairs. But my question is how good do you think Murray will be? I ask because I think that if the Bills see a player who they seriously believe will be GOOD (doesn't have to be great),I think they should draft him very early. If they think he will be top 10, then its a no brainer. At this point, I would be content with a QB in the caliber of Schaub or Hasselbeck in their respective primes. This is because my goals are not lofty at this point. I want a superbowl win as much as anyone but right now, I want the Bills to make the gdmf playoffs. Does EJ have potential? Sure. But until I see otherwise (fingers crossed), I see a qb who is suited for a read option offense with bad knees. If they take another QB and he is good, all the better. Both of the QBs mentioned above fetched a lot in trades years ago and took their teams to the playoffs. The Bills need, especially with all that is happening, to make the playoffs. I can't stress this enough. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Unfortunately for us it looks like after hearing there could be 3 QBs in the top 10, now there might be 0 QBs in the top 10... We'll see...But I really doubt that very much...Admittedly I've been wrong before...But history is on my side...Especially when QB prospects hold consensus 1st round grades like Bortles, Manziel, and Bridgewater have throughout this process...Even in years when no QB has held a consensus 1st round grade they still get over-drafted...Look no further than EJ last year for an example of that... With every team that passes a QB the next team that needs one has the opportunity to get their guy...It's still the most important position...And if teams are going to assume these QB's are just going to continue to fall they'll get left out, or they'll have to settle...Teams like Tennessee and Dallas (I can't imagine they would pass on Manziel) come into play when they normally would not be in the QB picture...Cleveland has another 1st Round pick...Teams trade back up into the 1st from the top of the 2nd...The waters get muddied fast...I can't wait to see what Houston is going to get if they don't take one of these guys at #1. Because by the time they Draft again it could be down to the 5th or 6th QB when they could have had Bortles/Manziel and a very good prospect at #33...I'm just not on board with the love for Clowney (or any other positional prospect) over a QB, if QB is a major need on that team...There are plenty of examples of teams who have had monster years from DE's, WR's, etc, only to miss the Playoffs because their QB play was lacking... It would be a HUGE shift in philosophy almost league wide if these QB's slide...In just the past few years we have seen plenty of QB's get over-drafted because teams know in the end it's worth the gamble...You don't have to pay them like you used to, and if you hit on one nothing is going to make a bigger difference in your teams success long term...Maybe the Gabbert's, Locker's, and Ponder's have scared teams off...But I'll believe it when I actually see it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) I love conversations like this and I am NOT trying to argue nor split hairs. But my question is how good do you think Murray will be? I ask because I think that if the Bills see a player who they seriously believe will be GOOD (doesn't have to be great),I think they should draft him very early. If they think he will be top 10, then its a no brainer. At this point, I would be content with a QB in the caliber of Schaub or Hasselbeck in their respective primes. This is because my goals are not lofty at this point. I want a superbowl win as much as anyone but right now, I want the Bills to make the gdmf playoffs. Does EJ have potential? Sure. But until I see otherwise (fingers crossed), I see a qb who is suited for a read option offense with bad knees. If they take another QB and he is good, all the better. Both of the QBs mentioned above fetched a lot in trades years ago and took their teams to the playoffs. The Bills need, especially with all that is happening, to make the playoffs. I can't stress this enough. Jmo. No sweat Bill. I get where you're coming from, and as you know, I enjoy our conversations as well. Regarding Murray, my opinion is that he's got a Matt Ryan type of upside, but doesn't have the same physical ability. Couple that with the ACL, and third round strikes me as perfect value for him. Frankly, I don't care who the QB is as long as he's a long-term solution. I do like EJ, and I think he's got the potential to be the guy, but if he's not, I'd like to have a prospect waiting. For me, Murray has as good a chance as anyone else in this class, which is to say that I'm not strongly convinced of any of these QBs' abilities to be the guy. Cheers, and happy Easter to you and yours. Edited April 19, 2014 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Manziel latest QB predicted to slide: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/18/dominik-predicts-a-slide-for-manziel/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 http://www.ourlads.c...ock-draft/2014/ - 3 QB in the first 8. Bills take Mack as CLE takes Bridgewater and OAK takes Sammy Watkins. You never know in the Smoke-Mirrors season. Wait until mock draft sites have to submit their mocks for judging the week of the draft. Astro @JohnMurphyShow Complete audio: Ourlads Mock: One QB Taken in First Round http://ow.ly/2FNoPq That Mock is from March 26 and is outdated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 That Mock is from March 26 and is outdated. Good catch. Their latest one, which I subscribe to, has one QB in RD1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Listening to an interview with Buddy the consensus of the draft room was they, with confidence, could trade down to the middle of the 1st and still get EJ. He said he they were talking the possibility of a trade with St Louis a couple of days before the draft. Hard for you to make the statement you made without all the inside knowledge. So, if you can get another second rounder and get the QB you want, that means your not all in ? Low risk/High reward. He also said they had a couple more trade offers for the 16th pick, but no longer had the confidence they would still land EJ. To me it sounds smart/ to you it sounds like they were not all in on EJ. I too suspect that they were all in on EJ. Picking at #8 they were in a good position. Most of the Quarterback needy teams were picking before them. Once none of them had taken EJ I think the Bills felt that they could trade back a few spots (especially because I suspect Buddy knew that there were plenty of teams with Geno rated highest on their boards). Had the Jets picked Geno at #9 I think the Bills would have had to come back up to 10 or 11, because Oakland were a small Quarterback risk at 12, but whilst Geno was still there too I think they felt like he was a buffer. The risk with moving back again, I suspect, was not a team scheduled to pick later in the first round taking EJ, but one of the early 2nd round teams trading back in to nab him. It was a widely believed that both Jacksonville and Philadelphia were high on him. Buddy wasn't a huge fan of moving about the board particularly in the first couple of rounds, I suspect that they had thoroughly researched all the permutations before they decided to do it. Edited April 19, 2014 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 He also said they had a couple more trade offers for the 16th pick, but no longer had the confidence they would still land EJ. To me it sounds smart/ to you it sounds like they were not all in on EJ. Well as we know, there were no qbs off the board at #8. We also know for sure that the Bills were going to draft one. This was a given after the famous phone conversation. He gambled and still got the player he wanted, so this was smart. In term of his post draft statements, it would not have been appropriate for him to say that he had for instance Geno Smith rated about the same as EJ. In any event, it's hard for me to picture a scenario in which the team which was desperate for a qb, had their target sitting right there, and traded down 8 spots. Unless of course they had a solid Plan B. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 No sweat Bill. I get where you're coming from, and as you know, I enjoy our conversations as well. Regarding Murray, my opinion is that he's got a Matt Ryan type of upside, but doesn't have the same physical ability. Couple that with the ACL, and third round strikes me as perfect value for him. Frankly, I don't care who the QB is as long as he's a long-term solution. I do like EJ, and I think he's got the potential to be the guy, but if he's not, I'd like to have a prospect waiting. For me, Murray has as good a chance as anyone else in this class, which is to say that I'm not strongly convinced of any of these QBs' abilities to be the guy. Cheers, and happy Easter to you and yours. Gotcha. I for one hope that the Bills select a qb early if they strongly feel that they have a good one available. And thank you. Do accept my best wishes for a happy Easter to you and your loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Well as we know, there were no qbs off the board at #8. We also know for sure that the Bills were going to draft one. This was a given after the famous phone conversation. He gambled and still got the player he wanted, so this was smart. In term of his post draft statements, it would not have been appropriate for him to say that he had for instance Geno Smith rated about the same as EJ. In any event, it's hard for me to picture a scenario in which the team which was desperate for a qb, had their target sitting right there, and traded down 8 spots. Unless of course they had a solid Plan B. Jmo. IMO they probably had Manuel rated as the 25th-40th best player in last years draft. He always was a "project" QB who would need some serious polishing up. Yet he had great character, leadership and physical traits. So the Bills simply had no stomach to choose him at #8. While they really did like his upside, they had him rated much lower than #8. They made a calculated risk and their "Plan B" would probably have been waiting till this years draft. This year's crop of 8-10 talented QB prospects is a complete jumble and near impossible to tell who will be good and who won't. That's not to say I'm sold on Manuel, it's just that he seems a more solid bet than trying to pick the "winner" from this large group and using a high pick on. Which QB would you like to see the Bills draft at #9 or #41? There's so many QBs talked about being picked in the first two rounds that it's beyond confusing trying to pick the winners and losers... Manziel, Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, McCarron, Garoppolo, Savage, Murray, Thomas Like Manuel, they all have their warts. None of them seem near worthy enough to bring in that kind of locker room drama to the team. If there were a Newton or a Winston there, then I'd probably be on board. Not so with these guys IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 IMO they probably had Manuel rated as the 25th-40th best player in last years draft. ...He always was a "project" QB ... That's a pretty good guess, as on the Friday before the draft, EJ Manuel had risen to 26 overall on their big board. Ironically, that's the spot that, as of Friday, 4/11, that Bridgewater has fallen to. Indeed, he was and is a project. They never expected EJ to come in and start last year. But two things happened: he legitimately outplayed everyone else in camp and Kolb got hurt. But they had no intention of pressing EJ into service that soon. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Interesting... Jason McIntyre @jasonrmcintyre 33m Peter King compared the QBs in the 2014 draft to the '11 draft (Cam, Locker, etc). GMs who went QB in '11 are gone http://shar.es/TA7tt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 NFC Executive: Teddy Bridgewater is a "Fourth-Round Guy" some quotes from the link... "The NFC executive said that he thought Bridgewater was a "fourth-round guy" and will fall out of the first round." "Another scouting director picking in the top 20 that could consider a quarterback told us that his team never had Bridgewater as a first-round pick." "Six different franchises, including those three in the top 10, have said they believe that Bridgewater is going to fall much lower than expected on draft day and could easily drop out of the first round because teams aren't grading him as a first-round pick." _________________________________________________________________________________________ A late riser seems to be Carr. He is now being talked about in some places as a top 10 pick! from the same link just further down the page: "One NFC team picking in the 20s told us that they expect the Minnesota Vikings to take Carr with the eighth-overall pick, unless he is selected by the Raiders at No. 5 overall." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckinny Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 it seems you never want to be a QB who peaks too early, like aorund the combine. Too long a hype puts you too long under the microsope the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Can anyone sell me on Barr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 If I am one of the QB needy teams, I'd be very leery of passing up a QB only to have a run on them late in the first by teams with ageing QBs. I would have to have that second tier of QBs ranked close to the top 3, or suck it up and pull the trigger early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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