NoSaint Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I guess that I think that they have guys that can fill Byrd's role. If that same $9M lands you Strief and Spikes for example I think the team is better. I really like Duke Williams & think that Searcy is adequate. I would not have paid Byrd that much. I pitched 4 years, $32M w/ $22M guarenteed earlier in the thread. That would have been my cieling when I saw the market for Ward, Delmas, etc.. Byrd helps the Saints for sure but their OL could be a disaster now. I would think that De La Puente and Strief are gone for 2. Meh. The gap between 8 per vs 9 per really wouldn't have bothered me too much to keep an all pro FS vs a RT in his 30s that's had only 1 really good season and a 2 down linebacker with attitude issues. If we end up with the latter I won't be upset but I'd chose Byrd between those two groups. That said we could've afforded all 3, and likely another couple pieces. Hopefully we make some real offers. I like guys like Lawson and branch last year and I'm willing to be patient but I expect a whole lot more out of this offseason. We aren't trying to break even on talent, we need to make a push and Byrd is a big one to replace before we get back into a positive direction. It also frustrates as I think my guess that 8 and change lands him last year (ie goldson plus a couple bucks to be the top paid on the market). In the long run it would've only been a 3-4m difference over the life of the deal and come with no risk of injury playing under the tag. I think he was genuinely insulted by our offer last year and telling him to prove us wrong. Edited March 12, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Meh. The gap between 8 per vs 9 per really wouldn't have bothered me too much to keep an all pro FS vs a RT in his 30s that's had only 1 really good season and a 2 down linebacker with attitude issues. If we end up with the latter I won't be upset but I'd chose Byrd between those two groups. That said we could've afforded all 3, and likely another couple pieces. Hopefully we make some real offers. I like guys like Lawson and branch last year and I'm willing to be patient but I expect a whole lot more out of this offseason. We aren't trying to break even on talent, we need to make a push and Byrd is a big one to replace before we get back into a positive direction. It also frustrates as I think my guess that 8 and change lands him last year (ie goldson plus a couple bucks to be the top paid on the market). In the long run it would've only been a 3-4m difference over the life of the deal and come with no risk of injury playing under the tag. I think he was genuinely insulted by our offer last year and telling him to prove us wrong. I hear you. It has kind of been my position since the start of this thread. It is like Pawn Stars, you may get close but at some point you need to part. Once they signed Williams I thought that they needed to be even more conservative on Byrd. He's a good player no doubt but I think that the roster could end up better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I hear you. It has kind of been my position since the start of this thread. It is like Pawn Stars, you may get close but at some point you need to part. Once they signed Williams I thought that they needed to be even more conservative on Byrd. He's a good player no doubt but I think that the roster could end up better off. i dont disagree on a broad level, and i know that cutoff number has been a bit of a moving target for some people (myself included) as things like perceived market value, and the cap moved around. I know about 50 pages ago there was a discussion about price as a percentage of the cap, and someone (not sure if it was you) mentioned somewhere around 7% being where theyd draw the line. Guys like goldson and weddle coming in between 6.5-6.7% at the time of their signings doing a quick and dirty calculation of Total dollars, divided by years, divided by the cap for the season they were signed (so by no means deep analysis but a bar napkin math type of gauge). byrds contract comes in at 6.7% and for an all pro in his 20s i dont think that number does anything to scare me off as being out of line with reasonable spending. especially with the rumors of it getting to 150m quickly (would be 6%) Edited March 12, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) i dont disagree on a broad level, and i know that cutoff number has been a bit of a moving target for some people (myself included) as things like perceived market value, and the cap moved around. I know about 50 pages ago there was a discussion about price as a percentage of the cap, and someone (not sure if it was you) mentioned somewhere around 7% being where theyd draw the line. Guys like goldson and weddle coming in between 6.5-6.7% at the time of their signings doing a quick and dirty calculation of Total dollars, divided by years, divided by the cap for the season they were signed (so by no means deep analysis but a bar napkin math type of gauge). byrds contract comes in at 6.7% and for an all pro in his 20s i dont think that number does anything to scare me off as being out of line with reasonable spending. especially with the rumors of it getting to 150m quickly (would be 6%) FWIW I am familiar with the Chargers new FO feelings on Weddle's deal and it is NOT helping the team, it is hurting it. They would kill to get rid of him for a less costly safety so they can build with other pieces but it is handcuffing them and they don't think he is a difference maker in their W-L. But they can't get rid of him because he is like a god in SD and the fans would riot. I am not saying don't pay Byrd, I just think it makes more sense for a team a player or two away from the SB to do it like the Saints, vs a team in the building stages like the Bills. Whaley had a value on him to his team, not any other team, and stuck to it. Edited March 12, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Can we close the book and this thread on Jairus Byrd now? Amen brother!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Amen brother!!! I agree, at least until the next int or whiffed tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) 2014: $1.3 million salary, 11m signing bonus, $3.5 million cap number 2015: $2 million salary, $6 million guaranteed roster bonus, $100,000 workout bonus, $10.3 million cap number 2016: $7.4 million salary, $100,000 workout bonus, $9.7 million cap number 2017: $8.6 million salary, $100,000 workout bonus, $10.9 million cap number 2018: $8.6 million salary, $100,000 workout bonus, $10.9 million cap number 2019: $8.6 million salary, $100,000 workout bonus, $8.7 million cap number" Edited March 13, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 2014: $1.3 million salary, $3.5 million cap number 2015: $2 million salary, $6 million guaranteed roster bonus, $100,000 workout bonus, $10.3 million cap number 2016: $7.4 million salary, $100,000 workout bonus, $9.7 million cap number 2017: $8.6 million salary, $100,000 workout bonus, $10.9 million cap number 2018: $8.6 million salary, $100,000 workout bonus, $10.9 million cap number 2019: $8.6 million salary, $100,000 workout bonus, $8.7 million cap number" So he gets an $11M signing bonus and a $6M guaranteed roster bonus. Where is the other $11M in guaranteed money? Are they counting the first 3 years salary as "guaranteed" because he won't/can't be cut before then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 So he gets an $11M signing bonus and a $6M guaranteed roster bonus. Where is the other $11M in guaranteed money? Are they counting the first 3 years salary as "guaranteed" because he won't/can't be cut before then? The first 3 years would get you to about 28m, so I'd guess that's the remaining.... Not sure why you out the quotes around guaranteed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 So he gets an $11M signing bonus and a $6M guaranteed roster bonus. Where is the other $11M in guaranteed money? Are they counting the first 3 years salary as "guaranteed" because he won't/can't be cut before then? I don't get it either...It's $11 million SB and a $6 million roster bonus in 2015...Plus $500,000 in workout bonuses...Where is the rest of the guaranteed cash? The first 3 years would get you to about 28m, so I'd guess that's the remaining.... Not sure why you out the quotes around guaranteed though. The top of the Buff News article says "$28.9 million in guarantees..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Does that take into account the roughly $5 million they'll need to sign rookies? That seems like a very high number. IIRC the Bills need to allot somewere around 2.3M for their picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) I don't get it either...It's $11 million SB and a $6 million roster bonus in 2015...Plus $500,000 in workout bonuses...Where is the rest of the guaranteed cash? First three years salary? Adds up pretty close to right. "Guaranteed" isn't the same as "bonus" which I've seen a few people confuse today. Odds are the workout bonus has to be earned by showing up and isn't guaranteed. Edited March 13, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 The first 3 years would get you to about 28m, so I'd guess that's the remaining.... Not sure why you out the quotes around guaranteed though. Because technically they could cut him after this coming season. Probably won't happen, but it could. But I've seen many contracts that assume the player will be there for the first 3 years and thus the first 3 years' base salary are counted as "guaranteed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 An update from schefter says the saints haven't cut Sproles as they have multiple trade options and will be getting something in return shortly, possibly funny, the Bills could get nothing for Byrd. I wonder how the other teams do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 First three years salary? Adds up right. "Guaranteed" isn't the same as "bonus" which I've seen a few people confuse today. Odds are the workout bonus has to be earned by showing up and isn't guaranteed. True... I'm getting confused with this wording though I guess...I understand that a SB is guaranteed for sure...But...OK...Let's just say for arguments sake the Saints decide to cut Byrd after 2014...Before the roster bonus...Is his total payout only the $11 million plus the base salary for 2014? Nothing else guaranteed at that point right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Yes, I live in fear of the day the Bills have to face Byrd again! What will they do? The next time will be the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 True... I'm getting confused with this wording though I guess...I understand that a SB is guaranteed for sure...But...OK...Let's just say for arguments sake the Saints decide to cut Byrd after 2014...Before the roster bonus...Is his total payout only the $11 million plus the base salary for 2014? Nothing else guaranteed at that point right? If 28m is guaranteed and they cut him tomorrow they'd have to pay him the 17 left after his 11m signing bonus he already received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) If 28m is guaranteed and they cut him tomorrow they'd have to pay him the 17 left after his 11m signing bonus he already received. So...Basically his base salary and bonuses for the first three years are guaranteed money? OK I get it... Or is it written in a way that he has to get paid the $27.9 million guaranteed...Whatever is left unpaid from the $27.9 million whenever (or I should say if) they cut him becomes guaranteed money...Is that a better way of looking at it or am I further confusing myself... Edited March 13, 2014 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Yeah, I don't think so, but as noted in the Shoutbox: they cannot possibly cut him before year 4 without eating a ton of cap space, and they just gave him $4MM more guaranteed than we gave Mario Williams. Sick money. On a safety. I thought closer to the Goldson contract was reasonable, even if expensive. Keep in mind that the cap will rise due to the new CBS Thursday night deal and TV contracts are coming up so speculating about the cap 2 or 3 years down the road is kind of a futile gesture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Can we close the book and this thread on Jairus Byrd now? why do folks who don't want to talk about a topic, click on and post in that topic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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