thewildrabbit Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) I saw the interview and didn't understand Marrone to be saying definitively that Crossman wouldn't be fired. But maybe it was my own hope shading my interpretation of his comments. I don't get the thing about the lack of core ST players. McKelvin is a core player. His PR average was awesome in 2011 and 2012. It sucked last year under Crossman. The core ST player is fine. The ST coach is the problem. 99.9% of the fans have acknowledged that, and the fact that stats say 30th. So they actually got worse from 9th in 2012 to 30th in 2013 with the same core players. Then notice Crossman was the ST coach with Detroit in 2010 & 2012 and guess what...the Lions ranked 30th in 2012, 29th in 2011. This guy sucks. http://www.footballo...om/stats/teamst The problem is Crossman is a "friend" of Marrone, so this will be another George Edwards type debacle only with special teams instead of the defense. Ultimately this will be Marrone's own undoing. EDIT: does anyone else remember the Thursday night game against Cleveland where the Browns PR set a franchise record for 179 yards on punt returns by Travis Benjamin (who?). Remember the 79 yard punt return for a TD. So, Marrone blamed the loss on the punter Shawn Powell and released him. One could easily surmise that special teams helped cause two losses this season against Cleveland and New England. Edited January 2, 2014 by FeartheLosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 So what do you guys think? Will Marrone make any more changes to his staff? Any more changes? How about any changes, period. Canning a WR coach not for performance, but philosophical reasons really isn't a change worth noting. And no, I do not expect any [more] changes in the coaching staff initiated by Marrone, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Johnson Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Before everyone summarily dismisses the "core" concept I think it should be discussed and evaluated. Who are these talented, underachieving STers that Crossman is unable to coach and motivate? Easley was great this year - he is a great athlete and a physical specimen who could be a high level WR if he could actually catch and get open. Because he can't, we have a great athlete playing balls out on ST to maintain his livelihood. Other than Easley, who do we have that should be a great STer? Does anyone other than Garrett Sanborn have a track record of being an effective STer? McKelvin had a huge drop off, but it cannot be easy to be in pass coverage every down, then run down the field to catch and return a punt. He was barely getting on the field for anything but PRs for much of 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Before everyone summarily dismisses the "core" concept I think it should be discussed and evaluated. Who are these talented, underachieving STers that Crossman is unable to coach and motivate? Easley was great this year - he is a great athlete and a physical specimen who could be a high level WR if he could actually catch and get open. Because he can't, we have a great athlete playing balls out on ST to maintain his livelihood. Other than Easley, who do we have that should be a great STer? Does anyone other than Garrett Sanborn have a track record of being an effective STer? McKelvin had a huge drop off, but it cannot be easy to be in pass coverage every down, then run down the field to catch and return a punt. He was barely getting on the field for anything but PRs for much of 2012. Goodwin has KR skills that are elite. It is hard to tell when he is taking a knee or not in there. Is Greggo's Marrone's idea to sign 9 FA STers or perhaps get a new coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 OH my God, that is funny! I love that one episode where he has a project that he knows nothing about and he sings the song DOWNTOWN with JERRY. Everything happens downtown! Can you just picture Ralph telling our analytics guy that all the answers to his problems are downtown? Serious spoof material here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Before everyone summarily dismisses the "core" concept I think it should be discussed and evaluated. Who are these talented, underachieving STers that Crossman is unable to coach and motivate? Easley was great this year - he is a great athlete and a physical specimen who could be a high level WR if he could actually catch and get open. Because he can't, we have a great athlete playing balls out on ST to maintain his livelihood. Other than Easley, who do we have that should be a great STer? Does anyone other than Garrett Sanborn have a track record of being an effective STer? McKelvin had a huge drop off, but it cannot be easy to be in pass coverage every down, then run down the field to catch and return a punt. He was barely getting on the field for anything but PRs for much of 2012. Looks like we found the other guy that thinks Crossman deserves his job (unless of course, Flip Johnson is the alter-ego of Douglas Marrone)? Has anyone ever seen them in the same place? hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 One could easily surmise that special teams helped cause two losses this season against Cleveland and New England. I'd also toss in the Cincinnati game. In OT we punted to them and they ran it back to the 20. Not the whole cause for the loss, but a contributor nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 If Marrone keeps Crosman . And the team is not markedly improved next season Doug will have hung his hat up . Maybe he feels that some attention to details and his hand in the matter will prop up Danny. Hell if i know. But for fun lets try two things. Lets list what we might consider core ST players beyond returners. I have not given this enough thought but one comes to mind. M.Easely has been a stud and found a niche. i kept seeing him hearing his number , and the guy has great stats. awesome really Lets see now.beyond that.... Summers ? maybe yes Wingo. no reps Hogan? i only noticed the miss against Blount Moats Bradham not sure who else might be significant. Maybe this is a real problem. And i would blame that on rookies and new faces. And of course new system with said rookies and new faces. Did i just defend something ? maybe 2 Who is out there to replace danny crosman ? Honestly , someone who might take the coaching position ? Maybe the reason we have Danny , for better or worse , is lack of options. I look forward to you kids retorts to my query Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 What about the analytics guy? Seems like a waste. :lol: You mean the guy who was hired 2 months ago? Before everyone summarily dismisses the "core" concept I think it should be discussed and evaluated. Who are these talented, underachieving STers that Crossman is unable to coach and motivate? Easley was great this year - he is a great athlete and a physical specimen who could be a high level WR if he could actually catch and get open. Because he can't, we have a great athlete playing balls out on ST to maintain his livelihood. Other than Easley, who do we have that should be a great STer? Does anyone other than Garrett Sanborn have a track record of being an effective STer? McKelvin had a huge drop off, but it cannot be easy to be in pass coverage every down, then run down the field to catch and return a punt. He was barely getting on the field for anything but PRs for much of 2012. I think what Marrone was saying was b.s. He and Whaley assembled the roster. By absolving Crossman of blame by pointing the finger at the players, he's indirectly pointing the finger at himself and Whaley. I really hate to say it but while this doesn't stink as much as the Wade Phillips-Ronnie Brown fiasco, it has a similar smell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I really hate to say it but while this doesn't stink as much as the Wade Phillips-Ronnie Brown fiasco, it has a similar smell. Ronnie Jones. Ronnie Brown was the 2nd overall pick that had an average career. Ronnie Jones was the mulleted ST coach that was good friends with former wrestling manager Paul Bearer (aka Wade Phillips). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The lockers have been cleaned out. Coaches and players are getting off planes reuniting with family. Golf clubs are being shined. Another disappointing season in the books. One bills drive is dark and quiet, with one exception. On the third floor in a tiny cubicle there's a glow of an IBM think pad with little man with thick horned rimmed glasses and an egg shaped cranium. That little man is none other than Michael Lyons, head of the newly founded buffalo bills analytical department. You see there's no pictures of wife and kids in michaels cubicle. Just a small sketch of michaels tiger striped kitten, appropriately named "Decimal" which he affectionately refers to as "Dezi". His project of the night, creating a comprehensive spreadsheet on the cost effectiveness relating to using sugar packets in the concession stand condiment table verses twelve ounce sugar dispensing containers. Michael knows Mr. Brandon needs these results by the end of the week. The pressure is enormous. The only break he gets is to prepare a bag of microwave low sodium popcorn. He knows the low sodium popcorn is 7.45 % less likely to cause hypertension. It's going to be a long night. Be sure to check in next week with the Buffalo Bills analytics department. Next week Mr. Lyons will be focusing on the cost effectiveness of purchasing athletic tape in 100 count cartons verses the standard ten pack rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 :lol: You mean the guy who was hired 2 months ago? I think what Marrone was saying was b.s. He and Whaley assembled the roster. By absolving Crossman of blame by pointing the finger at the players, he's indirectly pointing the finger at himself and Whaley. I really hate to say it but while this doesn't stink as much as the Wade Phillips-Ronnie Brown fiasco, it has a similar smell. Maybe they weren't concerned with special teams abilities when they were building the roster? I saw somewhere on here that there was a lot of turnover on the roster, I think a lot of that was in backups which are normally your St players. I think next year is the make or break season for Danny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Maybe they weren't concerned with special teams abilities when they were building the roster? I saw somewhere on here that there was a lot of turnover on the roster, I think a lot of that was in backups which are normally your St players. I think next year is the make or break season for Danny. Well criticism aside I'm happy to give Marrone another year before I pass any judgement. But this Crossman thing bothers me. It bothered me when he was hired and it bothers me even more now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 On the third floor in a tiny cubicle there's a glow of an IBM think pad with little man with thick horned rimmed glasses and an egg shaped cranium. Think Pad? IBM sold that part of the business off about 7 years ago. No way does Littman spring for something new like that. I think the dude has a Compaq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Think Pad? IBM sold that part of the business off about 7 years ago. No way does Littman spring for something new like that. I think the dude has a Compaq. No way! Brandon is not cheap! IBM BlueGene/L all the way! The $290,000,000 price tag is a small price to pay to build a winning team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Bring back Bobby April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The lockers have been cleaned out. Coaches and players are getting off planes reuniting with family. Golf clubs are being shined. Another disappointing season in the books. One bills drive is dark and quiet, with one exception. On the third floor in a tiny cubicle there's a glow of an IBM think pad with little man with thick horned rimmed glasses and an egg shaped cranium. That little man is none other than Michael Lyons, head of the newly founded buffalo bills analytical department. You see there's no pictures of wife and kids in michaels cubicle. Just a small sketch of michaels tiger striped kitten, appropriately named "Decimal" which he affectionately refers to as "Dezi". His project of the night, creating a comprehensive spreadsheet on the cost effectiveness relating to using sugar packets in the concession stand condiment table verses twelve ounce sugar dispensing containers. Michael knows Mr. Brandon needs these results by the end of the week. The pressure is enormous. The only break he gets is to prepare a bag of microwave low sodium popcorn. He knows the low sodium popcorn is 7.45 % less likely to cause hypertension. It's going to be a long night. Be sure to check in next week with the Buffalo Bills analytics department. Next week Mr. Lyons will be focusing on the cost effectiveness of purchasing athletic tape in 100 count cartons verses the standard ten pack rolls. Hysterically and tragically probably accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Johnson Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I Looks like we found the other guy that thinks Crossman deserves his job (unless of course, Flip Johnson is the alter-ego of Douglas Marrone)? Has anyone ever seen them in the same place? hmmm Haha … I am not a Crossman apologist, just someone who wants evidence to the contrary before dismissing Marrone's viewpoint. It seems to me that the Levy era Bills as well as the Bobby April units were drafting and developing players for their special teams contributions. Maybe Hogan, Moats, Wingo, Summers, Bradham, etc. are poorly coached - or maybe they aren't good special teamers and we need better ones. Football Outsiders rated the Bills with the #4 defense, #25 offense, and #30 special teams. We need drastic improvement in this area - I am just not convinced that this all falls on the coach. And no, this is not a Ronnie Jones situation. His 2000 squad was the worst special teams unit in the history of organized professional football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) I Haha … I am not a Crossman apologist, just someone who wants evidence to the contrary before dismissing Marrone's viewpoint. It seems to me that the Levy era Bills as well as the Bobby April units were drafting and developing players for their special teams contributions. Maybe Hogan, Moats, Wingo, Summers, Bradham, etc. are poorly coached - or maybe they aren't good special teamers and we need better ones. Football Outsiders rated the Bills with the #4 defense, #25 offense, and #30 special teams. We need drastic improvement in this area - I am just not convinced that this all falls on the coach. And no, this is not a Ronnie Jones situation. His 2000 squad was the worst special teams unit in the history of organized professional football. Ha ha, just giving you a hard time. It wouldn't bother me as much if Doug wasn't all about accountability. He hires a guy that was bad previously and he takes the unit from 9th to 30th (the biggest drop in the league). Crossman has obviously had a negative effect on that unit (how much can be debated) and should be held accountable but he is Marrone's buddy. It is extremely hypocritical and a blow to Marrone's credibility. Edited January 3, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Maybe Hogan, Moats, Wingo, Summers, Bradham, etc. are poorly coached - or maybe they aren't good special teamers and we need better ones. This was the excuse in Detroit as well as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 If Marrone keeps Crosman . And the team is not markedly improved next season Doug will have hung his hat up . Maybe he feels that some attention to details and his hand in the matter will prop up Danny. Hell if i know. But for fun lets try two things. Lets list what we might consider core ST players beyond returners. I have not given this enough thought but one comes to mind. M.Easely has been a stud and found a niche. i kept seeing him hearing his number , and the guy has great stats. awesome really Lets see now.beyond that.... Summers ? maybe yes Wingo. no reps Hogan? i only noticed the miss against Blount Moats Bradham not sure who else might be significant. Maybe this is a real problem. And i would blame that on rookies and new faces. And of course new system with said rookies and new faces. Did i just defend something ? maybe 2 Who is out there to replace danny crosman ? Honestly , someone who might take the coaching position ? Maybe the reason we have Danny , for better or worse , is lack of options. I look forward to you kids retorts to my query There is a lot of talk that it is the same core as last year. Maybe we should list which are new players and which where here last year. Then you can argue that it is not the core but the coach. Ha ha, just giving you a hard time. It wouldn't bother me as much if Doug wasn't all about accountability. He hires a guy that was bad previously and he takes the unit from 9th to 30th (the biggest drop in the league). Crossman has obviously had a negative effect on that unit (how much can be debated) and should be held accountable but he is Marrone's buddy. It is extremely hypocritical and a blow to Marrone's credibility. And Detroit went from 30th to 20th ... a pretty nice jump in his absence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direhard Fan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I can remember many kick off returns where we stopped them inside the 20. We tend to only remember the poor times and not the good plays. I would like to see the stats on kick off returns and yardage per return. I think we are looking for a goat and Crossman is it. We had almost no experience on ST this year. We say Easley but this was his 1st year on the active roster all year. What ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Crossman needs to go...period. I for one would like to see Hackett gone as well, but I know that's not going to happen. However, if in some way Crossman is retained, my respect for Marrone just sh*t the bed. I've been a Marrone supporter almost from the beginning and I'm willing to give him another year and hopefully a healthier roster, particularly EJ, to see if this team can make the playoffs. But if Crossman keeps coaching for the BILLS, count me on the side that doubts his accountablity speeches. Keeping someone accountable when it costs you nothing or very little is easy...keeping accountability intact when it requires a sacrifice is a test of integrity and strength of character. And as mentioned, you don't go from 9th to 30th without the coach playing a pretty big role. If it was just ten slots, you could argue players, et. al had something to do with it...but from top 10 to almost worst...yeah, coach is in play for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I can remember many kick off returns where we stopped them inside the 20. We tend to only remember the poor times and not the good plays. I would like to see the stats on kick off returns and yardage per return. I think we are looking for a goat and Crossman is it. We had almost no experience on ST this year. We say Easley but this was his 1st year on the active roster all year. What ever! 32 in KO return yards (season long of 28 yards), 29th in punt return yards, 15th in KO coverage, 8th in Punt coverage for an overall ranking of 30th (down from 9th last year). Not to mention that special teams cost the Bills anywhere from 2-4 games. What is it that you liked about the job that he did?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 32 in KO return yards (season long of 28 yards), 29th in punt return yards, 15th in KO coverage, 8th in Punt coverage for an overall ranking of 30th (down from 9th last year). Not to mention that special teams cost the Bills anywhere from 2-4 games. What is it that you liked about the job that he did?? BOOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 He will replace thousands of "ya know"s with "mmmkay?"s. Obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Where's Bobby April? That was a bad decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Obviously Marrone uses this word incorrectly usually . I think he figures it goes at the beginning and or end of each sentence. Guy cracks me up actually. In a harmless way : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Ronnie Jones. Ronnie Brown was the 2nd overall pick that had an average career. Ronnie Jones was the mulleted ST coach that was good friends with former wrestling manager Paul Bearer (aka Wade Phillips). Paul Bearer? I thought he was the legendary coach of the Alabama Crimson Tide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I always thought that they looked alike: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Seems like Hilliard was sacrificed so that Marrone could show that he does fire assistant coaches. Don't hold you breath waiting for him to fire his buddy Crossman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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