Bills working to keep Moorman [update: signed 1-10-2014]

[ny33]

What did you expect out of moorman?

 

I know Marrone wanted someone to come in and basically kick punts with a lot of hang time and little returns ( in contrast, to the line drives that Powell was hitting). That's what moorman did. In the jax game, he was hitting some kicks with over 5 seconds of hang time.

 

You make it sound preposterous that a team would keep an aging vet with declining skills as a punter. Well, that happens all the time. Chris gardocki played for like 20 years because teams felt comfortable having a vet who wouldn't get a punt blocked or returned. We kept Chris mohr well past his prime because we were comfortable with him in the weather.

 

You are ragging on moorman because you are generally disgruntled with the whole team. I would suggest you let it go. Moorman is going to retire. That Whaley made a kind comment about the team's interest in him one day after the season ended isn't proof of anything.

 

Do you not think it would have been a good idea to cut Moorman in, say, week 14, and give the following free agent punters a shot

 

1) Brad Wing

2) Chris Kluwe

3) Zoltan Mesko

4) Nick Harris

 

Why on earth would you not evaluate a punter for next year when it was clear that Moorman doesn't have it in him anymore?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

 

 

Do you not think it would have been a good idea to cut Moorman in, say, week 14, and give the following free agent punters a shot

 

1) Brad Wing

2) Chris Kluwe

3) Zoltan Mesko

4) Nick Harris

 

Why on earth would you not evaluate a punter for next year when it was clear that Moorman doesn't have it in him anymore?

 

Nobody wanted any of those guys. no one. Sean Powell got a job before any of them.

 

As I said before, teams value vets at the punter position. And while moorman was inconsistent, he did what they asked him to do-- kick 40-yarders with good hang time.

 

[ny33]

Nobody wanted any of those guys. no one. Sean Powell got a job before any of them.

 

As I said before, teams value vets at the punter position. And while moorman was inconsistent, he did what they asked him to do-- kick 40-yarders with good hang time.

 

That doesn't mean they're not worth a shot over Moorman. All, except for Wing, are long-term vets. Kluwe may have been "blacklisted" for his writing.

[Dragonborn10]

The problem with Moorman is that he has been bad for years. The decline started in 2010 not in 2012. He is consistently inconsistent. He is good for a shank every third game or so. He won't be brought back. If he wants to work next year he probably will be invited to kick in someone's training camp.

[stuvian]

he's a great citizen but his best days are behind him

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I wasn't aware that Whaley made a comment about Moorman.

 

Did he also say that the team didn't plan to bring another punter to camp?

[ny33]

I wasn't aware that Whaley made a comment about Moorman.

 

Did he also say that the team didn't plan to bring another punter to camp?

 

He did not.

 

The primary reason I made this thread was to remark on the fact that the Bills did not replace Moorman after being eliminated from playoff contention. We missed a great opportunity to throw a punter into the fire during meaningless games; instead, we likely will have only the preseason to see what a new punter can do in game situations. There's a chance we'll use a 6th or 7th rounder on a punter, which I think would be a good move.

 

Giving Moorman any guaranteed money would be a huge mistake.

[PolishDave]

He did not.

 

The primary reason I made this thread was to remark on the fact that the Bills did not replace Moorman after being eliminated from playoff contention. We missed a great opportunity to throw a punter into the fire during meaningless games; instead, we likely will have only the preseason to see what a new punter can do in game situations. There's a chance we'll use a 6th or 7th rounder on a punter, which I think would be a good move.

 

Giving Moorman any guaranteed money would be a huge mistake.

 

I understand your point and your thoughts about how important a punter is.

 

One thing I probably disagree with you on based on your comments is how much "live" game time the coaches need to see to judge a punter. I don't think you need much "live" game time at all when it comes to evaluating punters. Yes live game punting gives you a slightly more accurate view of what the guy is going to be like under fire. But I don't think there is much difference between a punter under fire and a punter in practice. He can either control his punts or not. If he can do it in practice, then there is probably a 90% or better chance he can do it in a game. If he can't control it in practice, then live game time is essentially pointless.

 

I am confident that the Bills explored all their options at punter throughout this year well before they brought Moorman back. Remember that they had been looking for a punter all year even before the season began. There is little doubt in my mind that the Bills had vetted pretty much every possible punter out there and were happy as hell that they could get Brian Moorman back knowing full well what his faults were.

[purple haze]

Do you not think it would have been a good idea to cut Moorman in, say, week 14, and give the following free agent punters a shot

 

1) Brad Wing

2) Chris Kluwe

3) Zoltan Mesko

4) Nick Harris

 

Why on earth would you not evaluate a punter for next year when it was clear that Moorman doesn't have it in him anymore?

 

What do you know about any of those options? Maybe they weren’t good options to the people who actually scour waiver wires? It’s easy to say what they should do

based on no real information about the options listed. We didn’t lose games because of Moorman. Coverage? Yeah, that cost us a couple.

 

Because Moorman may be re-signed does not mean he will be the punter going forward. I’m sure competition will be brought in. If he beats that competition out

then so be it. If he doesn’t, then so be it. Not saying it’s unimportant, but the Bills have much bigger fish to fry than worrying about the punter.

Edited January 3, 2014 by purple haze

[Utah John]

I think it's ironic that Powell's bad punts helped us lose to Cincinnati, which signed him and lost a game because of him. Like second marriages, it's the triumph of hope over experience, and looking too much at potential and not enough about what's real.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Giving Moorman any guaranteed money would be a huge mistake.

 

The going rate for Probowl punters will require a Mario kind of deal. Stop being so cheap. 5 seconds man, 5 seconds....

 

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

One thing I probably disagree with you on based on your comments is how much "live" game time the coaches need to see to judge a punter. I don't think you need much "live" game time at all when it comes to evaluating punters. Yes live game punting gives you a slightly more accurate view of what the guy is going to be like under fire. But I don't think there is much difference between a punter under fire and a punter in practice. He can either control his punts or not. If he can do it in practice, then there is probably a 90% or better chance he can do it in a game. If he can't control it in practice, then live game time is essentially pointless.

 

As a fellow Polish American, and with all due respect, you are dead wrong about this.

 

And Shawn Powell’s work with the Bills is a perfect example. I am sure he kicked bombs with great hang time in practice, well enough to get called back when Gailey/Nix cut Moorman. But he then hit liners that outkicked his coverage when it mattered. And unless this improves, I doubt he will last long with Cincy.

 

Whaley said what he had to regarding Moorman. He was less than stellar, but at times did offer impressive hang time.

 

The NFL punting fraternity is very much like the NFL Head Coaching fraternity … once you get in, then you are really IN.

 

With head coaches, you have a staff of assistants that worked under you that then become quasi-indebted to you. Many of them land gigs down the line, and this usually leads to a coordinator and/or position coach job down the line as the coaching landscape changes.

 

With punters, so many good ones have to play the waiting game. Only after you finally get your shot do NFL teams really then know that you can perform as one of the 32 best in the world.

 

It took Sean Landeta several tries before he became entrenched with the Giants, and then he played up until he was looking like Dennis Farina out there. Same with Chris Mohr, Moorman, and almost every other veteran guy out there. Even if you are lucky to get a shot as a rookie (ex: Zoltan Mesko) and then get replaced, you are often the first guy other teams will call.

Edited January 3, 2014 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[Campy]

Sorry, but while this may seem like a small thing to you, it is exemplary of the small things the Bills do that keep them from being a franchise fully committed to winning. Keeping Moorman out of deference to his past success and loyalty, despite his being finished as a competent NFL punter, is the type of cronyism that keeps this team out of the playoffs.

 

Obviously a successful Q.B. is the most important thing, but all the small things add up to at least one or two losses a year.

 

1) The Toronto game, a loss in a dome against a dome team

2) Marrone's insistence that the special teams were fine, and that Crossman was not necessarily to blame; plus, firing Hilliard before the rest of the staff gets reviewed; plus, the continued employment of the assistant S.T. coach who is a former Syracuse assistant to Marrone

3) The lack of a Q.B. coach for E.J. Manuel, who is being coached by a rookie O.C.

4) Claiming that the team had started an analytics department, only to announce months later that a head of the department had been hired. To date, we have not heard any detailed information about this supposed "department"

 

 

All of these things are obvious missteps to fans. I'm not claiming to be a better evaluator of talent than the scouts or G.M.; it is sad that simple, clear hindrances to winning like the above are noticeable to fans but not acted upon by management. To me, that is the mark of an organization that does not prioritize winning above everything else, which you have to in 2013's N.F.L.

 

If week 1 was next week, I'd agree with you. But it isn't.

 

Have you considered they may have signed him to be an extra leg for camp and to pass along some tricks for kicking in the Ralph's swirling winds?

 

In other words, it just doesn't matter.

[Turbosrrgood]

per Whaley.

 

This is ridiculous.

 

Why the hell would they do that? Dead last in most punting statistics this year, by far in some cases. But I guess since we signed the worst ST coach in the league last year, that's our new MO.

[Security]

He was the worst of any other player at his position on the team, and the most easily replaceable too.

 

Powell should never have been replaced, if the Bills could tackle on special teams and not constantly be out of position, or maybe consider not have 3 backup WRs out there in kick coverage , then maybe we might tackle people. You can't always just play 3rd stringers.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Security

[Beerball]

The primary reason I made this thread was to remark on the fact that the Bills did not replace Moorman after being eliminated from playoff contention.

Your thread title and OP tell a different story.

 

Whaley said something nice about a nice guy. That's it, end of story.

[ny33]

Your thread title and OP tell a different story.

 

Whaley said something nice about a nice guy. That's it, end of story.

 

I should have probably posted this weeks ago, but was surprised by Whaley's comments. Perhaps you're right, but I still think we should have worked in other punters after cutting Powell, or a few weeks into Moorman's tenure this season.

[Never NEVER Give-up]

Shawn Powell was released before the Bengals 1st playoff game due to a 10 yard shank.

 

Moorman was far from his old self, but he's the only punter on the roster NOW, so Whaley wants to be sure we maintain that into training camp. It makes sense to re-sign him (for now) and make him win the job in preseason. He wouldn't be worth much as a GM if he lets players go for nothing - especially if it does no harm retaining them for the short term.

[ALLEN1QB]

cool

[ny33]

Nobody wanted any of those guys. no one. Sean Powell got a job before any of them.

 

As I said before, teams value vets at the punter position. And while moorman was inconsistent, he did what they asked him to do-- kick 40-yarders with good hang time.

What do you know about any of those options? Maybe they weren’t good options to the people who actually scour waiver wires? It’s easy to say what they should do

based on no real information about the options listed. We didn’t lose games because of Moorman. Coverage? Yeah, that cost us a couple.

 

Because Moorman may be re-signed does not mean he will be the punter going forward. I’m sure competition will be brought in. If he beats that competition out

then so be it. If he doesn’t, then so be it. Not saying it’s unimportant, but the Bills have much bigger fish to fry than worrying about the punter.

 

The Bengals replaced Powell with Mesko, who had two punts inside the twenty. We could have signed him and given him a multi-game trial when the season was shot.