Rams not long for STL?

[Homey D. Clown]

Actually, Russ is doing Buffalo a favor. The Bills NEED the Canadian market. The Bills cannot sell out the Ralph based on WNY tickets alone, and the situation will only get worse as NYS Government continues to ignore Western NY.....that's why 20% of the attendance at games is from Southern Ontario. Further, in order to sell the tickets, the Bills have one of, if not the the, lowest season ticket prices in the NFL. Those prices can only go up w/ increased demand. More population, southern Ontario=more demand. A new owner is not going to come in an let literally millions sit on the table that could be gained by moving to a city that's growing and can afford to pay more in terms of lux boxes and ticket prices. The only way to solve this problem is to drive up demand and increase ticket costs eventually. (which also cannot happen until they play better). But don't let facts get in the way of your rant.

 

 

Actually Russ is not doing Buffalo a favor, but since you are blind to the actual facts, maybe you could take a closer look at the new 5 year agreement that doesn't earn the franchise more money than if the games were played in WNY, if you factor in the erie county net losses from having to run the stadium for 7 instead of 8 games a year, but don't let logic, math, and any real fact get in the way of your contradictory ramblings. If you were actually reading what I wrote, I said nothing about NEEDING Canadian fan support, but I guess that's asking too much.

[T master]

Holding taxpayers hostage

 

Ain't that the truth !! How can the NFL go along with some of this crap ? Did you see the picture of that facility in the article, & how old is it ? It looks like a great building !!

 

These teams are getting ridiculous !!

 

I can see a bunch of fans being over the NFL team hostage situation in a few years.

 

Along with the players getting payed way over what they deserve & crying that they don't make enough the entire game is just changing into a prima donna game, nothing more than a bunch of whiners !! And owners (can u say Jerry Jones) have turned into the same thing..

[nonprophet]

The only 2 teams that should be even considered to move are the Chargers and Jags.

Maybe the Rams will move to L.A. and the Jags will move to St. Louis?

[C.Biscuit97]

Maybe the Rams will move to L.A. and the Jags will move to St. Louis?

 

When I was in LA last summer, the Bills weren't even mentioned in the conversation. The general thought is the Chargers and Raiders will move. Personally, I think the Jags' new owner should move them to LA. He owes Jacksonville nothing and they have a joke fanbase.

[BillnutinHouston]

Actually, Russ is doing Buffalo a favor. The Bills NEED the Canadian market. The Bills cannot sell out the Ralph based on WNY tickets alone, and the situation will only get worse as NYS Government continues to ignore Western NY.....that's why 20% of the attendance at games is from Southern Ontario. Further, in order to sell the tickets, the Bills have one of, if not the the, lowest season ticket prices in the NFL. Those prices can only go up w/ increased demand. More population, southern Ontario=more demand. A new owner is not going to come in an let literally millions sit on the table that could be gained by moving to a city that's growing and can afford to pay more in terms of lux boxes and ticket prices. The only way to solve this problem is to drive up demand and increase ticket costs eventually. (which also cannot happen until they play better). But don't let facts get in the way of your rant.

 

You are 100% correct, sir. The problem is, there's a segment of this board who are so provincial, narrow-minded, insular (pick your adjective) that they cannot or refuse to wrap their minds around these plain truths. The fact that Russ is forward-thinking (as opposed to backward-thinking like themselves) just blows their little minds.

[C.Biscuit97]

You are 100% correct, sir. The problem is, there's a segment of this board who are so provincial, narrow-minded, insular (pick your adjective) that they cannot or refuse to wrap their minds around these plain truths. The fact that Russ is forward-thinking (as opposed to backward-thinking like themselves) just blows their little minds.

 

Well said. Russ is the best friend the Bills have to staying here long term.

[metzelaars_lives]

There's no way St Louis ponies up that kind of coin for a team that's a distant third in popularity in the city. If LA is going to spend a billion dollars on a football stadium, they're going to get a team. I'll believe that part when I see it.

 

Dude, the Rams are not a "distant 3rd" in popularity in St. Louis. Obviously the Cardinals are #1 and yes, at the moment the Blues are good and the Rams suck, but let's not kid ourselves. When the Blues sucked, that arena was a mausoleum. Last I checked the Rams still play in the NFL. And also, especially as a moderator, is it necessary to have the r-word in your avatar? I've had posts yanked for stuff much less offensive.

[BillnutinHouston]

take a closer look at the new 5 year agreement that doesn't earn the franchise more money than if the games were played in WNY, if you factor in the erie county net losses from having to run the stadium for 7 instead of 8 games a year

 

I didn't know these numbers were available. Have a link to specifics?

 

Even if you are correct in your assertion that the new Toronto series nets the Bills the same profit as a game at the Ralph (which I'm skeptical of BTW), why does "cultivating a market" mean that every single transaction needs to make money to be successful long term?

 

I respectfully suggest you stop thinking like a fan and start thinking like a prospective owner. Which Bills franchise would you prefer to invest $800 million in - the one who turned its back on Toronto, or the one who is aggressively cultivating the Toronto market?

Edited February 4, 2013 by BillnutinHouston

[Captain Hindsight]

700 million? Thats !@#$ing stupid

[Nitro]

Convention centers are not lucrative for local governments. That sector is way overbuilt and simply not a good investment. It's been that way for about twenty years. I didn't know that the stadium space was also a convention center. But the returns aren't going to be there, regardless. And we should adjust for inflation when considering these investments. That's how Kroenke's thinking about this money.

I will respond in that the Indianapolis expansion of the convention center generated from April 2005 to December 2010 $220 in tax revenue to indianapolis and the state coffers. That is not a chump change. The city core is thriving with new hotels, condos, apartments, restaurants and bars.

 

http://www.ibj.com/c...S/article/24457

Edited February 4, 2013 by Nitro

[SF Bills Fan]

The Rams should have never been allowed to leave LA in the first place. St. Louis is a baseball town.

[Mr. WEO]

Actually, Russ is doing Buffalo a favor. The Bills NEED the Canadian market. The Bills cannot sell out the Ralph based on WNY tickets alone, and the situation will only get worse as NYS Government continues to ignore Western NY.....that's why 20% of the attendance at games is from Southern Ontario. Further, in order to sell the tickets, the Bills have one of, if not the the, lowest season ticket prices in the NFL. Those prices can only go up w/ increased demand. More population, southern Ontario=more demand. A new owner is not going to come in an let literally millions sit on the table that could be gained by moving to a city that's growing and can afford to pay more in terms of lux boxes and ticket prices. The only way to solve this problem is to drive up demand and increase ticket costs eventually. (which also cannot happen until they play better). But don't let facts get in the way of your rant.

 

 

 

 

Glad you were able to aknowledge the obvious somewhere in there.

 

Anyway, how do you "market" a team to a city? Is it done by bringing a perennialy losing team into a partially filled baseball stadium (by partially filled I also mean only a fraction of the group of spectators are Bills fans) to play games that are mocked by players, fans and media? To you, this makes sense? Do you think Bills fans are coming to the Ralph every Sunday because of they saw these awful games at the Skydome and want to drive to Buffalo to see more?

 

Who told you that? Brandon? Oh yeah, that's right--he did.

 

No one is saying the Bills need all the fans they can get, what many of us are saying is that the Toronto games do nothing to forward that goal. Those games are an an embarrassment for this organization. Embarrassment isn't a marketing tool.

 

How about: more wins=more demand. Has Brandon ever considered this over all of these years of wispering into Ralph's ear?

 

You are 100% correct, sir. The problem is, there's a segment of this board who are so provincial, narrow-minded, insular (pick your adjective) that they cannot or refuse to wrap their minds around these plain truths. The fact that Russ is forward-thinking (as opposed to backward-thinking like themselves) just blows their little minds.

 

See above. You want more Ontario fans? Give them a reason to come to the Ralph. Make it easier and more attractive (product) for them.

 

Well said. Russ is the best friend the Bills have to staying here long term.

 

Really? I thought it was the new stadium lease. Russ has been part of the problem to this point.

[jumbalaya]

there is no way st louis spends $700MM to renovate a perfectly viable dome. second, games in the dome absolutely suck. too noisy, too pricey, too many distractions, food stinks, girls will pull up their shirts and display some nice boobies but that's about it. if you like being seen but not seeing the game this venue suits you. I'd rather watch games at a high school stadium. choice is to build a retractable dome that will be out of the elite in 15 years for $1B+, this town simply cannot afford it. but truly the sports fans here don't give a rats ass about football. most would welcome the football cardinals back but will never pay much over $100MM to keep the Lams. as someone else mentioned the baseball cards screwed them tot the wall on ballpark village, promise d$150MM in development then built a softball filed for $10k, and no way does anyone here trust a sports franchise anymore.

Edited February 4, 2013 by jumbalaya

[l< j]

I will respond in that the Indianapolis expansion of the convention center generated from April 2005 to December 2010 $220 in tax revenue to indianapolis and the state coffers. That is not a chump change. The city core is thriving with new hotels, condos, apartments, restaurants and bars.

 

http://www.ibj.com/c...S/article/24457

 

That same article points out that convention floor space has gone from 40 million sq ft to 70 million sq ft in the last 20 years, as cities have entered or expanded in an already crowded market. And your example of the success of Indianapolis is offset by the example of Houston from the same article, which defaulted on the debt used to build the stadiums and meeting space and has been sued by the bond insurer for insufficient reserves. Also, the bloom may be off the rose a bit in Indy, as the article points out, as revenues have slowed in the past year+.

 

So I still hold that convention centers are generally a bad public investment. And stadiums, too, at least they way most are funded.

 

kj

[Nitro]

Houston has a bad debt struck and it lead to their woes. Cities realize that convention business is a revenue source but you have to do it wisely. Indy is a growing and thriving area. Come and visit a city that is growing and knows how to sell it self. Revenue slow down is a blip but they are increasing the scope of conventions we have here.

[Homey D. Clown]

I didn't know these numbers were available. Have a link to specifics? I really can't say how or why I know specifics

 

 

I respectfully suggest you stop thinking like a fan and start thinking like a prospective owner. Which Bills franchise would you prefer to invest $800 million in - the one who turned its back on Toronto, or the one who is aggressively cultivating the Toronto market?

 

I sincerely appreciate you not just slamming my reasoning, but my approach is very business-like. What fans don't know is that this team is extremely profitable, with NFL network agreements and large market profit sharing, a franchise could be made viable in Potsdam, or Springville for that matter. What everyone here is failing to see is that in order to garner more fans based in Toronto, which I am a proponent for, it is not necessary to play a game there to accomplish this. simple tour and travel strategies would suggest that very fun and affordable tier based travel packages to and from the stadium would make even the casual fan a potential visitor to WNY, but INSTEAD, the moron Russ Brandon would rather have these new Canadian fans spend their money on the team IN CANADA.

 

Quite simply, what you are being told about the idiotic toronto series is NOT what it is intended, there are far more revenue and fanbase building options available, and it's time fans realize that what is happening is a slow and deliberate attempt to move the team AWAY from WNY.

 

If it were money and additional revenue the team needed, selling the stadium naming rights would garner 60-80 million dollars.... YES you read that right, 60 - 80 million ADDITIONAL, ACTUAL dollars to the team's bottom line over the next 10 years. I know right? Why wouldn't this be pursued if the team is sooo poor? Simple, the team ISN'T starving for money.

 

If the idiotic toronto series was about bringing in more fans, then why not, ohhh i don't know, ADVERTISE in the metro toronto area? OR even make an attempt to sell luxury suites and advertising in the stadium to corporations based in toronto to put these companies on a national TV market 8 weeks out of the year. Naaahhhh, that's too logical. Let's ROB WNY of one home game, tell them that it's for the team's own good, and the lemmings will all buy it, because nothing gets people to believe you better than fear.

 

 

My intent was not to insult you, but it's safe to say I firmly believe Russ Brandon is full of SH1t, and will eventually separate this team from WNY all on his own. I choose to look at the true facts, and when you look at them from all angles, this blasphemous toronto series' true intent becomes very clear.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

My intent was not to insult you, but it's safe to say I firmly believe Russ Brandon is full of SH1t, and will eventually separate this team from WNY all on his own. I choose to look at the true facts, and when you look at them from all angles, this blasphemous toronto series' true intent becomes very clear.

Yes. Russ is so set on moving the Bills he signed a 10 year lease with a massive buyout to lock the Bills in. That's how the best evil geniuses work. You never see it until it's too late. But nothing gets past Homey here.

 

PTR

Edited February 5, 2013 by PromoTheRobot

[Homey D. Clown]

Yes. Russ is so set on moving the Bills he signed a 10 year lease with a massive buyout to lock the Bills in. That's how the best evil geniuses work. You never see it until it's too late. But nothing gets past Homey here.

 

PTR

 

Nice attempt at sarcasm when simple logic easily prevails over your feeble point of view. YES. lets ignore the actual buyout clause after the completion of the 6th year completely, it would crush your hollow argument.

 

Ohhh yes, and let's not address all the valid monetary facts I presented as alternatives to the stupid toronto game completely...just edit out all those points so you can look like a snarky smartass.

 

Whew you really burned me.....

 

lame.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Homey D. Clown

[Alaska Darin]

When the Blues sucked, that arena was a mausoleum.

Which had more to do with unstable ownership than anything.

Last I checked the Rams still play in the NFL.

And? Football is the most popular sport in America but it isn't in St Louis. St Louis likes the Rams when they're winning and really doesn't give a crap when they aren't. I've been to that stadium five times and never paid more than $10 for a lower bowl ticket on game day. They give that **** away and they still can't fill the building. In fact, I'd say that at least 50% of the "fans" in that hovel are either fans of the opposing teams or people who wanted to see an NFL game in person and got a cheap ticket somewhere.

And also, especially as a moderator, is it necessary to have the r-word in your avatar?

The "R" word? Are you !@#$ing kidding me? What are you? Seven?

I've had posts yanked for stuff much less offensive.

Guess you're not me. Few people are.

[Malazan]

Yes, the Bills selling more season tickets to Canadians is a lie. I can't believe you kool-aiders can't see that.