truth on hold Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Extending by a year makes alot of sense for the Bills. It keeps their options open. They have an old (and declining health) owner who may not be around in a year or so. Why close the door? Keep it open so when a succession plan happens, they can roll with it and not be bound by some lease. Folks, have you been to some of the newer stadiums around the league? NY, Dallas, Indy,etc...even Baltimore? I like the Ralph of course but it's dated. The concourses are so narrow, it seems silly and sub-standard after attending games in newer stadiums. I honestly think to ensure the long term viablilty of the Bills, they State & County need to hit a home run and build a new stadium eventually. SOmething downtown or regional,,,with multiple use possibilities. It should have a retractable roof. The Ralph needs a whole lot more than a band aid to make significant improvements. That makes sense either do it right or don't do it. Enough of the band aids. The NFL era of playing in old worn caves is over. In this environment bills are lucky to be getting this kind of support and interest from government. If Ralph can't make a commitment now and wants to keep options open (which I can understand ) then roll it a year. But dont play this BS game of demanding support on one hand while offering no commitments on the other. Edited September 13, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 That makes sense either do it right or don't do it. Enough of the band aids. The NFL era of playing in old worn caves is over. In this environment bills are lucky to be getting this kind of support and interest from government. If Ralph can't make a commitment now and wants to keep options open (which I can understand ) then roll it a year. But dont play this BS game of demanding support on one hand while offering no commitments on the other. Agreed. I was listening to the Mad dog show on Sirius yesterday. He kept saying how the Dolphins, Bills, Jax, Cinci would have alot of empty seats this Sunday. Then he was reminded how Buf is sold out for the first 2 games. There still is tremendous support in WNY for a team that has provided nothing but failures for a dozen years. Making the playoffs in the NFL is the measuring stick for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) This is all pretty cut and dry to me. Wilson does not want his heirs to be tied down by succession plans or long term leases. That's why there is no succession plan and the Bills are trying to avoid a long term lease. From the reports I've seen Wilson's heirs don't want to manage the team so they will most likely sell it and the best way to get the most $ is to sell it on the open market with as few restrictions as possible. The one year lease extension is a disaster for the City. Not to sound heartless about this, but the closer Mr. Wilson gets to the end, the less likely he will be to commit to a long term lease, and with his age and the health problems he has been having I would say that he is at that point where he doesn't want to commit. I don't see why the Bills wouldn't just ride out this extension and re-evaluate the situation next year. In the meantime, the county and state would probably do well to get even a 5 year extension at this point. When the Bills go on sale, the only way they stay in Buffalo is if a bid comes in from Buffalo that is at least close to the open market offers, which will certainly be well over $1 billion dollars. If they are close then I think Buffalo will get the home town advantage but if there is a significant discrepancy, then I think the team will walk. Edited September 14, 2012 by vincec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Isn't it obvious? The Bills do not want to sign a lease they can't get out of. When RW dies, Brandon gets to move to LA with the new owner. Brandon will be the guy that let the new owner save millions by avoiding a penalty for breaking the lease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Isn't it obvious? The Bills do not want to sign a lease they can't get out of. When RW dies, Brandon gets to move to LA with the new owner. Brandon will be the guy that let the new owner save millions by avoiding a penalty for breaking the lease. Brandon isn't seriously involved with the lease negotiations. Littman, Ralph's long time trusted financial advisor, is. When Ralph passes Littman will not be involved with the team under a new owner. He simply works for Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 i am glad the buffalo news took the bills to task today on the editorial page, they deserve to pressured and quit doing the song and dance "about being committed to wny".. i say nonsense, then tell us the plan if there is one! wanting it both ways sucks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 i am glad the buffalo news took the bills to task today on the editorial page, they deserve to pressured and quit doing the song and dance "about being committed to wny".. i say nonsense, then tell us the plan if there is one! wanting it both ways sucks.. What plan are you refferring to? The Buffalo News could be as critical they want. It has absolutely no influence on the Michigan owner. The owner has made it clear that the team will remain in western NY as long as he owns the team. He has also made it clear that the team is going to be sold when he passes. Many people are assuming that Jim Kelly has a ownership group that is ready to purchase the team. That is a misconception. It is possible that he has a group that is capable of bidding on the team and being serious contenders to buy it. But the reality is they will only take over the franchise if they are the highest bidders. I'm not trying to be a spoil sport here. The current owner is not going to get involved in a public spat over how he is gong to handle his estate with anyone or public entity. It's obvious, at least to me as to how his estate is going to be handled. If there was an arranged deal in the works with any group then a stadium deal would have been quickly made. That is not the case for obvious reasons. He is not going to allow his asset to be encumbered with a long term financial committment and make it less appealing to prospective buyers. Russ Brandon was on WGR recently and was asked about the stadium lease by the host, Howard Simon. The usually congenial Brandon bluntly told the host that the issue was under negotiation and that he wouldn't discuss the matter. Littman and not Brandon is the negotiator for the owner in this matter. But the company line has been set. Don't count on a long term organizational committment from the 94 yr old owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Liking this less and less each day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgetty Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 (edited) Very soon. This will all be over. Best case is Toronto at least I could still root for them. Edited September 15, 2012 by ecgetty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 This is all pretty cut and dry to me. Wilson does not want his heirs to be tied down by succession plans or long term leases. That's why there is no succession plan and the Bills are trying to avoid a long term lease. From the reports I've seen Wilson's heirs don't want to manage the team so they will most likely sell it and the best way to get the most $ is to sell it on the open market with as few restrictions as possible. The one year lease extension is a disaster for the City. Not to sound heartless about this, but the closer Mr. Wilson gets to the end, the less likely he will be to commit to a long term lease, and with his age and the health problems he has been having I would say that he is at that point where he doesn't want to commit. I don't see why the Bills wouldn't just ride out this extension and re-evaluate the situation next year. In the meantime, the county and state would probably do well to get even a 5 year extension at this point. When the Bills go on sale, the only way they stay in Buffalo is if a bid comes in from Buffalo that is at least close to the open market offers, which will certainly be well over $1 billion dollars. If they are close then I think Buffalo will get the home town advantage but if there is a significant discrepancy, then I think the team will walk. Not caring if I sound heartless, the best thing for everyone - bills players, fans, future owner, etc - is for Ralph to pass so this thing can come to a resolution. If they're staying then do it, make the commitment to the area and building a winner, stop the vagury, stop stalling, stop holding the fans over a barrel and torturing them. Or sell the team to an LA higher bidder and move. I'm prepared for either , its the current non-status "status" I'm thoroughly exhausted with. Btw Ralph's over 90 and looks feeble (most 90 year olds do) but he could also live another 10 years and make it to 100. I had a relative live that long. And with Ralph's money he has a better chance than most at getting the healthcare to extend hia years. The prospect of 10 more years of this BS makes it crystal clear he should abandon the "status unresolved until I'm gone" policy. Really Ralph FU, you're abusing the fans who made you a billionaire in the first place. We're owed better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvrOfficiousJerk Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 (edited) @johnc, if there was a group in place after ralph, i would argue that it would make the lease negotiations more difficult rather than easier. Thing is, the only way the Bills stay profitable is if the stadium is fully paid for, so the current ownership would want to make sure the next one doesnt have to pay off stadium debt (next ownership being hypothetical of course). The state/county probably wanted the team to throw down, which Littman understandably balked at. If Ralph says "no problem guys, the bills are staying put" he wont get the powers at be to pay up, which hurts not only his bottom line but also that of the next ownership group That said if the govt pays up the lease needs to be ironclad so the scenario which I outlined above actually played out. Because im not sold on a local group ready to buy the team. But no, just because negotiations arent going well doesnt mean there isnt an ownership plan in place Edited September 15, 2012 by OvrOfficiousJerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Not caring if I sound heartless, the best thing for everyone - bills players, fans, future owner, etc - is for Ralph to pass so this thing can come to a resolution. If they're staying then do it, make the commitment to the area and building a winner, stop the vagury, stop stalling, stop holding the fans over a barrel and torturing them. Or sell the team to an LA higher bidder and move. I'm prepared for either , its the current non-status "status" I'm thoroughly exhausted with. Btw Ralph's over 90 and looks feeble (most 90 year olds do) but he could also live another 10 years and make it to 100. I had a relative live that long. And with Ralph's money he has a better chance than most at getting the healthcare to extend hia years. The prospect of 10 more years of this BS makes it crystal clear he should abandon the "status unresolved until I'm gone" policy. Really Ralph FU, you're abusing the fans who made you a billionaire in the first place. We're owed better. I agree 100%. I understand if Mr. Wilson believes that he owes his heirs more than Buffalo fans, but he has enough money that he can throw the fans a bone and still leave his heirs very, very well off. Securing a succession that keeps the team in Buffalo would cement his legacy around those parts. I'd do it for that reason alone, if I were him. But no, just because negotiations arent going well doesnt mean there isnt an ownership plan in place Let me just ask the obvious question. If there is a succession plan in place, why keep it a secret? The uncertainty is adversely affecting the negotiations and his reputation in the area, not to mention the sanity of Buffalo area Bills fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvrOfficiousJerk Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I agree 100%. I understand if Mr. Wilson believes that he owes his heirs more than Buffalo fans, but he has enough money that he can throw the fans a bone and still leave his heirs very, very well off. Securing a succession that keeps the team in Buffalo would cement his legacy around those parts. I'd do it for that reason alone, if I were him. Let me just ask the obvious question. If there is a succession plan in place, why keep it a secret? The uncertainty is adversely affecting the negotiations and his reputation in the area, not to mention the sanity of Buffalo area Bills fans. We dont know that the uncertainty is adversely affecting negotiations. For me I really think the sticking point is the Bills contribution. And yes our sanity is being tested but the more leverage they have for relocation the more govt $$$ they can get. They can speak volumes as to the succession plan by how ironclad the lease is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) Bills looking at 4 blackouts. Way for the "greatest fans in the NFL" to represent. They might as well move the team to L.A. because no one wants to watch this team. We are giving the NFL every excuse in the world to take the Bills away. And we laugh at the Jags and their tarps. PTR Edited September 16, 2012 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Nah. People that pay 25% over market value for things don't become billionaires. The market value is very different if there is an option to move the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 http://buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120916/SPORTS/120919253/1004 Why not? Play the first for at RWS and the last 4 + playoffs in Toronto. It's not like fans in Buffalo care. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Bills looking at 4 blackouts. Way for the "greatest fans in the NFL" to represent. They might as well move the team to L.A. because no one wants to watch this team. We are giving the NFL every excuse in the world to take the Bills away. And we laugh at the Jags and their tarps. PTR http://buffalonews.c.../120919253/1004 Why not? Play the first for at RWS and the last 4 + playoffs in Toronto. It's not like fans in Buffalo care. PTR You went to sleep and woke up with the same misplaced anger (as ever). Leave the fans alone, Russ Brandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Bills looking at 4 blackouts. Way for the "greatest fans in the NFL" to represent. They might as well move the team to L.A. because no one wants to watch this team. We are giving the NFL every excuse in the world to take the Bills away. And we laugh at the Jags and their tarps. PTR You are making an assumption that games not currently sold out will still not be sold out when those games come up. If the team demonstrates that it is a serious contending team then the fans will respond. After a generation of bad football in a system designed for parity I don't blame fans for being more judicious with their $$$. Ralph Wilson has a response for your blind loyalty: Sold to the highest bidder! http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120915/CITYANDREGION/120919311/two-bills-drive http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20120915/SPORTS0103/309150036/two-bills-drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) You went to sleep and woke up with the same misplaced anger (as ever). Leave the fans alone, Russ Brandon. You are making an assumption that games not currently sold out will still not be sold out when those games come up. If the team demonstrates that it is a serious contending team then the fans will respond. After a generation of bad football in a system designed for parity I don't blame fans for being more judicious with their $$$. Ralph Wilson has a response for your blind loyalty: Sold to the highest bidder! http://www.buffalone...two-bills-drive http://www.democrata...two-bills-drive Ha ha ha...always an excuse...and some lame insults. Greatest fans in the NFL can't be bothered to buy the cheapest tickets in the NFL because they might get cold. But don't you dare take our team away or give games to Toronto because we are sooo awesome. PTR Edited September 16, 2012 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Bills looking at 4 blackouts. Way for the "greatest fans in the NFL" to represent. They might as well move the team to L.A. because no one wants to watch this team. We are giving the NFL every excuse in the world to take the Bills away. And we laugh at the Jags and their tarps. PTR Open air stadium in Buffalo NY in December. You can't blame people for not wanting to put up with that crap. Comparing to LA and Jax is a nonsensical comparison for December games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Excellent thread, IMO. - though dripping of a dozen years of pathetic-performance apathy. This IS essential discussion of our Bills that we all have -in 'non-Wall' conversations. Despite the obvious taboo of public discourse about a living LEGEND of the game 'overstaying', it's WHAT Bills fans are really talking about. From an ever-hopeful lifer, I believe a local group with the $$ to be bidding goes all in with a new, collapsible roof gem in Niagara Falls -spurring the otherwise Unlikely Possibility of a resurgence to relevance in the region. No logical reason the Wison family is standing pat with Ralph's now dated proclamation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Ha ha ha...always an excuse...and some lame insults. Greatest fans in the NFL can't be bothered to buy the cheapest tickets in the NFL because they might get cold. But don't you dare take our team away or give games to Toronto because we are sooo awesome. PTR If your saying that we should continue to buy tickets en masse, averaging $60 each, to watch crappy football, for one of the worst franchises in the NFL, which by all indications will abandon Buffalo in the next few years, or we are poor fans, then I think you are making a very weak argument. And you are the one launching the insults. I understand though, it's the only weapon when there is no rational argument in your favor. If you want to sell a product, then produce something worth buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) the recent developments seem to make clear that the state and county are saying "you want hundreds of millions of dollars in tax money? Fine, but you MUST commit to being here for the duration of the lease. No buyout clauses. Good for Cuomo. He's not your typical politician in that (being a Democrat in NY) he has the media, unions, NYC power brokers, etc. behind him. It either goes his way or it just isn't going to happen. His political future is secure either way. Even though I normally don't vote Democrat, I am 100% behind Cuomo on this one. Edited September 16, 2012 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 If your saying that we should continue to buy tickets en masse, averaging $60 each, to watch crappy football, for one of the worst franchises in the NFL, which by all indications will abandon Buffalo in the next few years, or we are poor fans, then I think you are making a very weak argument. And you are the one launching the insults. I understand though, it's the only weapon when there is no rational argument in your favor. If you want to sell a product, then produce something worth buying. Actually YES...if you want the NFL to stay in Buffalo. The media and the league have little sympathy for fans opinion of the quality of the Bills. All they know and see are empty seats. If Buffalo doesn't want to support the Bills, why keep them here? L.A. is waiting, and other cities as well. If that is too much to ask then maybe we are better off letting go of the Bills. It would certainly make you happier. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Actually YES...if you want the NFL to stay in Buffalo. The media and the league have little sympathy for fans opinion of the quality of the Bills. All they know and see are empty seats. If Buffalo doesn't want to support the Bills, why keep them here? L.A. is waiting, and other cities as well. If that is too much to ask then maybe we are better off letting go of the Bills. It would certainly make you happier. PTR It doesn't matter what the level of support is for the Bills. The owner is going to have his asset auctioned off when he passes. You are giving the impression that the Bills have not been reasonably supported. That is not the case. Over the past dozen years or so the fans have supported the team beyond the level of its mediocre performance. In additiion, the local and state public authorities have been very generous in supporting the franchise with public funds. What more do you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Open air stadium in Buffalo NY in December. You can't blame people for not wanting to put up with that crap. Comparing to LA and Jax is a nonsensical comparison for December games. Put a dome on it, I will buy December tix. As it is, I don't look at tix any later than mid-November. And I'm sure a lot of fans feel this way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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