Mr. WEO Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 well, if one reads what is being reported in the media i e: the buffalo news, both the county and state have gone on record as being on board with keeping the bills here. the state will sell bonds to pay for the improvements.in addition, common sense would dictate that the bills are the one's playing hardball and it was stated as such by a cuomo rep in the news today. But what is their leverage? We already knew how governments raise money for capital projects. If Cuomo days forget it, then what? You did see what the Dodgers just went for right? Magic and his partners spent way more than market value. They're out there and in an open bidding war the Bills could easily go for around $1B. The Dodgers sold for 2 billion (and Magic overpaid by at least 25%, per reports of the losing bid amount) because the Dodgers are more valuable as a TV show than as a dya to day money making baseball team. Next year, they will be able to sell their TV rights to the highest bidder or create their own network like the yanks or the mets (which is where those teams make their money, not selling game tickets). Obviously in the NFL, teams can't negotiate TV deals. There will be no bid up like in LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) But what is their leverage? We already knew how governments raise money for capital projects. If Cuomo days forget it, then what? well. has he said that? all i read (and that is all i can base my opinion on) is that both the state and county are committed to keeping the bills here, of course that does not translate into a concrete "yes" they will pay for the improvements , but technically you are right, but in reality i think it is the bills driving the hard bargain approach. Edited September 13, 2012 by dwight in philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Cowlings Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 This is THE topic of the week to me, and it's hardly being discussed. This summer, the county executive said he expected to have the elase done by training camp. Then it was the season. Now, they are going to WORK TOWARDS a 1 year extension. WTH is going on here? This is VERY concerning. What happened to this "deal" with some local ownership group to keep the team here? The events of this week seem to suggest that no such deal exists, or if it did maybe Mr. Wilson has decided to sell the team on the open market once he passes. A billion dollars for this team would be a slam dunk on the open market. I'm worried. Where are all the people with "inside info?" They will be gone soon after Ralph is. The suffering will be over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The Dodgers sold for 2 billion (and Magic overpaid by at least 25%, per reports of the losing bid amount) because the Dodgers are more valuable as a TV show than as a dya to day money making baseball team. Next year, they will be able to sell their TV rights to the highest bidder or create their own network like the yanks or the mets (which is where those teams make their money, not selling game tickets). Obviously in the NFL, teams can't negotiate TV deals. There will be no bid up like in LA. You're right, the ability for baseball teams to negotiate their own TV deals definitely contributes to their value. But if Buffalo goes to the highest bidder, and some of those bidders intend on moving them to a market like LA, the team could easily go for much more than the current market value. It's not lost on these billionaires that a team like the Redskins have doubled in value in 12 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 well. has he said that? all i read (and that is all i can base my opinion on) is that both the state and county are committed to keeping the bills here, of course that does not translate into a concrete "yes" they will pay for the improvements , but technically you are right, but in reality i think it is the bills driving the hard bargain approach. I'll ask a third time. You said the Bills had all the leverage. What is their position? Pay for the stadium improvements or....what? Ralph will move the team? You're right, the ability for baseball teams to negotiate their own TV deals definitely contributes to their value. But if Buffalo goes to the highest bidder, and some of those bidders intend on moving them to a market like LA, the team could easily go for much more than the current market value. It's not lost on these billionaires that a team like the Redskins have doubled in value in 12 years. They would move the team to LA, where there is still no stadium, after paying an "LA premium", and a relocation fee? And would have to sell off a major chunk of the team to the LA group in order to get the stadium built? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) I'll ask a third time. You said the Bills had all the leverage. What is their position? Pay for the stadium improvements or....what? Ralph will move the team? They would move the team to LA, where there is still no stadium, after paying an "LA premium", and a relocation fee? And would have to sell off a major chunk of the team to the LA group in order to get the stadium built? well again, common sense would dictate that , yes! are you being obstinate or do you really not pay attention? or logic would dictate that you are a bills employee. Edited September 13, 2012 by dwight in philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmjoyce113 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Do I really care about the lease agreement any more? Nahhhh. If you'd don't care then why are you on a Bill's message board? I'm kinda confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 One that lives in LA The Raiders will be the next LA team. They screwed up by ever leaving, and they know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 How do the Bills have all the leverage? What if the state just says "no"? What's Ralph going to do? Of course the Bills have the leverage. If the stadium lease deal can't be consumated that has little affect on Ralph and the Bills. The owner will simply go on a year to year lease deal until he leaves the scene and the "unfettered" team is even more attractive to outside bidders. The franchise is his largest estate asset. His estate strategy is to maximize his asset, not place it in a situation that wll diminish its value on the open market with a deal that will make it less appealing to all bidders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAWNDO Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The value of the franchise will increase dramatically if it is moved to another city, such as LA. The current market value is based on the team being in Buffalo (with Buffalo economic realities and an old stadium). In LA, with a new stadium, the value of any franchise could be more than double. This is a great point. There are posters on TSW who periodically provide updates about possible new owners of the Bills, do any of them have any new information to provide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 They would move the team to LA, where there is still no stadium, after paying an "LA premium", and a relocation fee? And would have to sell off a major chunk of the team to the LA group in order to get the stadium built? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying an LA group is definitely in the mix for the team whenever they go up for sale. LA might already have a deal in place for another team to move there when the Bills go up for bid. All I'm saying is that any outside potential bidders, whether or not they are from Los Angeles, are likely to drive up the price when the sale finally happens. The most recent sale of the Jags to Shahid Khan, which wasn't a "highest bidder" scenario, was for (reportedly) $760B. Khan paid a slight premium for that team, whose market value at the time of sale was around $725B (and was actually dropping in the years immediately preceding the sale.) Obviously I don't have any hard evidence that the Bills are going to sell for way more than their current value. But, if the team really is going to go to the highest bidder when ownership changes, it's not that hard to believe there will be at least one bidding party putting in an outrageous bid for the team and driving up the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st pete gogolak Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Of course, it's a one-year extension. Can' tie the hands of the new owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 well again, common sense would dictate that , yes! are you being obstinate or do you really not pay attention? or logic would dictate that you are a bills employee. You have "logically" concluded I am...a Bills employee?? Ha! You may exit now. Of course the Bills have the leverage. If the stadium lease deal can't be consumated that has little affect on Ralph and the Bills. The owner will simply go on a year to year lease deal until he leaves the scene and the "unfettered" team is even more attractive to outside bidders. The franchise is his largest estate asset. His estate strategy is to maximize his asset, not place it in a situation that wll diminish its value on the open market with a deal that will make it less appealing to all bidders. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying an LA group is definitely in the mix for the team whenever they go up for sale. LA might already have a deal in place for another team to move there when the Bills go up for bid. All I'm saying is that any outside potential bidders, whether or not they are from Los Angeles, are likely to drive up the price when the sale finally happens. The most recent sale of the Jags to Shahid Khan, which wasn't a "highest bidder" scenario, was for (reportedly) $760B. Khan paid a slight premium for that team, whose market value at the time of sale was around $725B (and was actually dropping in the years immediately preceding the sale.) Obviously I don't have any hard evidence that the Bills are going to sell for way more than their current value. But, if the team really is going to go to the highest bidder when ownership changes, it's not that hard to believe there will be at least one bidding party putting in an outrageous bid for the team and driving up the price. What if the county doesn't want another year lease? What if Ralph is still alive a year from now and the county says no--sign a long term lease or face eviction? Ralph may have his name on it, but it's not his house. Also, take LA out of the mix and where does the next owner move the team to that the other owners would approve? And what happened to the "a plan is in place to keep the Bills in Buffalo everyone was hanging on to a few months ago? Is everyone dumping that now? Doc--you want to chime in here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 You have "logically" concluded I am...a Bills employee?? Ha! You may exit now. What if the county doesn't want another year lease? What if Ralph is still alive a year from now and the county says no--sign a long term lease or face eviction? Ralph may have his name on it, but it's not his house. Also, take LA out of the mix and where does the next owner move the team to that the other owners would approve? And what happened to the "a plan is in place to keep the Bills in Buffalo everyone was hanging on to a few months ago? Is everyone dumping that now? Doc--you want to chime in here? you win.. i think you qualify as the "smartest guy in the room".. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 you win.. i think you qualify as the "smartest guy in the room".. Hardly. These are just obvious questions. People throw stuff out there all the time. Simple questions come to mind and I ask them. Doesn't mean I'm right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The plan is yr to yr with Ralph. So they can a. When Ralph passes sell to new owner who moves team. b. When Ralph passes ,new owner splits games with Toronto. c.When Ralph passes new owner works deal to keep team in Buffalo. One of these 3 will happen....I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Hardly. These are just obvious questions. People throw stuff out there all the time. Simple questions come to mind and I ask them. Doesn't mean I'm right. i have simply stated that the bills have all the leverage in the bargaining process and that the state and county "APPEAR" willing to put up, the bills seem to be balking, again, this is based on what i have read, not by hearing rumours or tin foil on my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Also, take LA out of the mix and where does the next owner move the team to that the other owners would approve? I'm not completely taking LA out of the mix, just saying that market may not be still in play by the time the team goes up for sale. But with the current least situation, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) You did see what the Dodgers just went for right? Magic and his partners spent way more than market value. They're out there and in an open bidding war the Bills could easily go for around $1B. There's 32 teams in the NFL. With the current and near term world economic markets stuck on suck. It's easy to see a group or individual "overpay" and hand the Wilson family one billion+. The price will be a moot point anyways once the team is sold, moved, and all the morons who currently count beans and run the team are handed their pink slips. A one year lease extension is a scary deal for long time Bills fans. If ralph passes this team is up for grabs. The Jim Kelly talk is well just that talk. I would like to buy the Bills but I would have to hit my 401K pretty hard and currently I am unwilling to do that. Edited September 13, 2012 by Best Player Available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) What if the county doesn't want another year lease? What if Ralph is still alive a year from now and the county says no--sign a long term lease or face eviction? Ralph may have his name on it, but it's not his house. And what happened to the "a plan is in place to keep the Bills in Buffalo everyone was hanging on to a few months ago? Is everyone dumping that now? Doc--you want to chime in here? Do you honestly believe that a local politician or government authority is going to tell Ralp to take a hike? Look at what has just happened. The parties involved couldn't reach a deal so they went to the fall back position of a one year deal. After next year if a deal can't be reached then again there will be a one year deal. Etc, etc. The County Executive or the state reps are simply going to go on a year to year basis and then hope for the best. I'm very sure that Ralph and his financial rep (Littman) would not be adverse to a year to year lease in a dilaped facility if it would keep the owner's asset more enticing and less encumbered to more bidders. You and I know that Ralph has little concern about where the team will end up when he leaves the scene. His priority is getting the best price he can for his large asset, regardless who buys it. Those who believe that the owner has a secret plan to sell to a local owner out of benevolence are very naive and have not followed how over the past half century the owner conducted his football business. If the highest bidder wants to keep the team in the region then so be it. If the highest bidder wants to move the team then the market has spoken. Also, take LA out of the mix and where does the next owner move the team to that the other owners would approve? The Rodgers group in Toronto would certainly be serious contenders for an auctioned off team. They have a canadien national sports network that would be enhanced with a NFL franchise. . Edited September 13, 2012 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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