May Day 10 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I can live with one game. 2 would cross the line though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Good question. The answer was given in the article: Bills season-ticket purchases by Ontarians had risen 44% after three years of the Bills-in-Toronto Series, Brandon said, and Canadians account for 15% of the club’s overall season-ticket sales — about 10,000 fans at Ralph Wilson Stadium on any given Sunday. Hmmm. Probably the same 10,000 people that go to the Toronto games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) To all naysayers, I ask you to try this exercise: Leave aside all emotional reactions as a fan, and put yourself in the cold, calculating shoes of the next owner of/investor in the franchise. Now ask yourself, does the Toronto Series make the WNY market a more or less economically feasible place to keep the franchise, long term? I would submit that we really don't have the luxury of "liking" this or not. Instead, the key is to focus on the economic feasibility aspect of this deal. Franchise investing is not just about making a profit, it's about making SUFFICIENT profit. If the Bills do not expand their market, investors will look to greener pastures. As much as Ralph is villified here, he's far more loyal to this area than another "highest bidder" investor group might be. Whether I like it or not, it's clearly a much more sound plan to rely on the numbers working than have to rely on some unknown group's questionable loyalty to WNY. Lets' assume that Brandon's claim that playing games in Toronto (by players who don't want to be there in front of an indifferent crowd partially filling the worst NFL stadium on the planet to watch the Bills win a single game to skeptical press coverage) is somehow linked to the increase in Canadian season ticket holders. The next owner is still going to see that the Bills struggle to fill the stadium in December none the less. He's not going to keep the team here just because of a leftover deal with Rogers (reportedly worth a lot less than the previous deal). The new deal is likely a wash compared to playing the games at "the Ralph". Any new owner will realize that only winning puts rumps in the seats all season--it doesn't matter where they come from. In fact, there have been enough in WNY in the past to sell the place out. If he thinks he has a winning organization, or he can find one, then he knows he can make money here, just like they do in other "small markets". Ralph should be actively shopping this team to someone he is confident will keep the team here. He should then sell the team to that guy. Why leave it in limbo after his death? Makes no sense at all, other than for money. Edited May 22, 2012 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Ralph should be actively shopping this team to someone he is confident will keep the team here. He should then sell the team to that guy. Why leave it in limbo after his death? Makes no sense at all, other than for money. Vanity. "His" team until he dies. His family gets a buttload of money either way. There may be some tax benefit to his family for waiting until he dies as well, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 only winning puts rumps in the seats all season--it doesn't matter where they come from. In fact, there have been enough in WNY in the past to sell the place out. If he thinks he has a winning organization, or he can find one, then he knows he can make money here, just like they do in other "small markets". Please see January 3, 1993. Winning does not always make games sell-out. Losing does not always prevent sell outs. Arizona has sold out the last 61 games. over that time, they are 45-51 in the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 So we lose one December home game to an NFC opponent that no one would want to go to anyway because it might be cold out. The team is now anchored in place for at least 5 years. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Wonderful, and the only preseason game played there will be the one that Rogers jammed back down here this year. Do the math, the 44% increase in Canadian season ticket holders equals a 1,500 increase. Give up home field advantage to gain 1,500 season ticket holders, what a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 This sucks. Win and the Ralph sells out. It's that simple. Show a commitment to winning and people like me that used to go to every game they could will be back. Carhartt, blaze orange and camo baby! You won't see that in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Vanity. "His" team until he dies. His family gets a buttload of money either way. There may be some tax benefit to his family for waiting until he dies as well, I'm not sure. Or maybe, just maybe, he really loves owning the team and wants to keep it in the hopes they win a championship while he's still alive. Crazy, I know. Gotta be all about the money for a 90+ year old who's already got more than he knows what to do with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAWNDO Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 So we lose one December home game to an NFC opponent that no one would want to go to anyway because it might be cold out. The team is now anchored in place for at least 5 years. PTR Plus if the state and county play the lease negotiations right, the team maybe locked in for 10-15 years. Brandon said in past interviews that the Bills would like to increase the number of suite rentals to Canadian Companies. A good product on the field in Toronto will help this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Sorry but this does nothing to lock the Bills into WNY for the next five years. I'm sure Rogers can break it if a new owner wants to move the team. We'll see if the media questions Brandn about these provisions. What is most ominous is there's no word coming from Gross Pointe, makes you wonder who's running this asylum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Im so done with this team! Ralph is cheap! Show me the baby! Ground up in the freezer! Kelsey Sucks! Did i miss any? Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) This sucks. Win and the Ralph sells out. It's that simple. Show a commitment to winning and people like me that used to go to every game they could will be back. Carhartt, blaze orange and camo baby! You won't see that in Toronto. I'll bet you $10 the Bills don't sell out the December games until the last minute, and maybe still need ch.4 to buy the last few thousand. What is most ominous is there's no word coming from Gross Pointe, makes you wonder who's running this asylum. Seriously? Is Ralph supposed to hold a press conference after every move? Then folks will complain that Ralph is meddling. Ralph is 94 and still recovering from a broken hip so cut him some slack. PTR Edited May 22, 2012 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Playoff hunt will help sell tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 This is obviously an important strategic decision, he doesn't have to come to Buffalo for a press conference but a statement could be issued on his behalf. If they can't even do this you have to wonder how much he's in control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Please see January 3, 1993. Winning does not always make games sell-out. Losing does not always prevent sell outs. Arizona has sold out the last 61 games. over that time, they are 45-51 in the regular season. Do the naysayers think that the buying power of a region might make a difference? According to these stats, on the index of households with effective buying income of $150,000 or more, Phoenix ranks 14th and Buffalo ranks 67th. Shame on Ralph for trying to level the playing field! The next owner is still going to see that the Bills struggle to fill the stadium in December none the less. He's not going to keep the team here just because of a leftover deal with Rogers (reportedly worth a lot less than the previous deal). The new deal is likely a wash compared to playing the games at "the Ralph". Not sure anyone's making the case that the Rogers deal is the end-all-and-be-all. But, do efforts at cracking the Toronto market help or hurt? If they help even incrementally, they still help. Ralph should be actively shopping this team to someone he is confident will keep the team here. He should then sell the team to that guy. Why leave it in limbo after his death? Makes no sense at all, other than for money. So, the naysayers seem to want to dictate who Ralph sells to, AND they want to tell him who he shouldn't market to. Got it. *** I think it's fascinating that Mary Owen is listed in the article as a member of the NFL's International Committee. *** Edited May 22, 2012 by BillnutinHouston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Please see January 3, 1993. Winning does not always make games sell-out. Losing does not always prevent sell outs. Arizona has sold out the last 61 games. over that time, they are 45-51 in the regular season. You can list the exceptions to any rule, I guess. There is not much point to be made in doing so. Or maybe, just maybe, he really loves owning the team and wants to keep it in the hopes they win a championship while he's still alive. Crazy, I know. Gotta be all about the money for a 90+ year old who's already got more than he knows what to do with. He can certainly be a part or fractional owner. He would still have the thrill of owning the team for what seems to be eternity. But another individual(s) could make the decisions. Pretty simple, really. Everyone makes out well. Not sure anyone's making the case that the Rogers deal is the end-all-and-be-all. But, do efforts at cracking the Toronto market help or hurt? If they help even incrementally, they still help. So, the naysayers seem to want to dictate who Ralph sells to, AND they want to tell him who he shouldn't market to. Got it. *** I think it's fascinating that Mary Owen is listed in the article as a member of the NFL's International Committee. *** Actually, many are making that case. Also, I clearly didn't say who Ralph should sell to. In fact, I said the opposite--he should sell now to an entity that he is comfortable with (i.e. won't move the team). Step closer to your monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The next owner is still going to see that the Bills struggle to fill the stadium in December none the less. Add in the fact that ticket prices could easily double from where they are now. Putting them more in line with league averages. Buffalo may have the cheapest seats in the entire league. With a new owner financing hundreds of millions of dollars it's unlikely he will continue the Ralph discount based on his 20K investment in 1960. Plus if the state and county play the lease negotiations right, the team maybe locked in for 10-15 years. Brandon said in past interviews that the Bills would like to increase the number of suite rentals to Canadian Companies. A good product on the field in Toronto will help this. That would be nice. But I cannot imagine any lease deal without a buy out clause. Just like the Bills have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 http://blogs.canoe.ca/krykslants gotta pay those free agents somehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I'll bet you $10 the Bills don't sell out the December games until the last minute, and maybe still need ch.4 to buy the last few thousand. PTR Yes Sir, you are most likely correct. But that is still a sellout. If the Bills are hot going down the stretch looking for a playoff spot and that game doesn't sell out one way or the other I will happily pay you $10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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