Junior Seau Dead @ 43

[RyanC883]

I understand it is against the rules to complain about threads being locked, but I passionately agree that the thread in question should not have been closed. There needs to be leeway given in certain situations.

 

I think it is appropriate to remind everyone that suicide can be prevented.

 

While some suicides occur without any outward warning, most people who are suicidal do give warnings. Prevent the suicide of loved ones by learning to recognize the signs of someone at risk, taking those signs seriously and knowing how to respond to them.

 

Warning signs of suicide include:

Observable signs of serious depression:

• 
   
  
• Unrelenting low mood
  
• Pessimism
  
• Hopelessness
  
• Desperation
  
• Anxiety, psychic pain and inner tension
  
• Withdrawal
  
• Sleep problems
  
• Increased alcohol and/or other drug use
  
• Recent impulsiveness and taking unnecessary risks
  
• Threatening suicide or expressing a strong wish to die
   
  

Making a plan:

• 
   
  
• Giving away prized possessions
  
• Sudden or impulsive purchase of a firearm
  
• Obtaining other means of killing oneself such as poisons or medications
   
  

Unexpected rage or anger

 

The emotional crises that usually precede suicide are often recognizable and treatable. Although most depressed people are not suicidal, most suicidal people are depressed. Serious depression can be manifested in obvious sadness, but often it is rather expressed as a loss of pleasure or withdrawal from activities that had been enjoyable. One can help prevent suicide through early recognition and treatment of depression and other psychiatric illnesses.

 

Great post. It can be prevented. It is very difficult to detect. If you think someone has the above signs, you can't always confront them and may want to seek out qualified help from a psychologist/social worker, etc. before doing so.

[TheBrownBear]

But people need to know that 90 percent of all people who die by suicide have a diagnosable psychiatric disorder at the time of their death (most often depression or bipolar disorder). Just as people can die of heart disease or cancer, people can die as a consequence of mental illness. Try to bear in mind that suicide is almost always complicated, resulting from a combination of painful suffering, desperate hopelessness and underlying psychiatric illness.

 

This.

 

To call it a selfish act shows a real lack of empathy. Like you said, 90% of the time these are very sick people who see no way out of their situations. A few years back I experienced a prolonged period of major depression (which I mostly successfully hid from my loved ones) that had me on the precipice of taking my own life. I had made up my mind to do it on the way home from grad school one night, when I happened to run into a friend on the way to the subway. After spending some time with them, I felt just well enough to stay here for one more day. That was the one extra day I needed to come clean with my family and finally ask for help. You literally can't see the forest for the trees when you're effected by mental illness. And I think it's definitely harder for men to seek help. We are raised not to show weakness - mentally or physically. When you're suffering and you're programmed not to seek help, sometimes taking your life can seem like the only solution.

[bbb]

In listening/reading the discussion about Seau's death and the death's of others I'm wondering if the head injuries are actually the cause or just a contributing factor. I'm not trying to minimize or mitigate the damage that a few hundred thousand high force collisions may have had but I can't help but wonder if there aren't other forces at work.

 

Professional athletes are in many ways, modern day gladiators. Their entire lives have been spent getting ready for and competing at the highest levels. Some have long careers, others have their careers cut short due to injuries ect. They live lives of fame, testosterone and adrenaline. Then one inevitable day it's all gone. Sure some of the fame is still there but they're not running onto a field surrounded by 70k fans or skating onto the ice with 40k screaming hockey fans. The emotional dropoff alone has to be a massive burden.

 

I wonder, are there biochemical or neurological changes that a professional athlete undergoes when they retire?

 

And, actually almost all of them say that the thing they miss most is the camaraderie of the locker room.

 

I think most of us can attest to that. The locker room was such a fun safe cocoon......After playing in high school sports, that got replaced for me by the camaraderie of all my floormates in college........Then, when that was gone, there was a huge void!

[KD in CA]

This.

 

To call it a selfish act shows a real lack of empathy. Like you said, 90% of the time these are very sick people who see no way out of their situations. A few years back I experienced a prolonged period of major depression (which I mostly successfully hid from my loved ones) that had me on the precipice of taking my own life. I had made up my mind to do it on the way home from grad school one night, when I happened to run into a friend on the way to the subway. After spending some time with them, I felt just well enough to stay here for one more day. That was the one extra day I needed to come clean with my family and finally ask for help. You literally can't see the forest for the trees when you're effected by mental illness. And I think it's definitely harder for men to seek help. We are raised not to show weakness - mentally or physically. When you're suffering and you're programmed not to seek help, sometimes taking your life can seem like the only solution.

 

Wow. Glad you're still with us.

[benderbender]

TMZ is reporting that there was a shooting @ Seau's Cali home.and apparently Junior is dead...no link but all over radio....

TMZ was the first to break the death of M. Jackson among other news. I hope this isn't true. I always liked Seau and admired his play. One of the greats to play the game.

I hate to post rumors of this nature but, IBN is tweeting that Seau apparently commited suicide...damn man.

 

While attempted suicide by shooting oneself in the chest isn't uncommon as I thought, it is still suspicious. I've seen too many mob movies maybe, but I hope the case is thoroughly investigated with open minds.

[Simon]

I can't believe the Mods froze the Mama Seau thread.

 

Not every thread needs to be 8 pages. How do you guys determine what needs its own thread or not? Why not just make one giant thread called "football?" One was about the breaking news. Another was a heartfelt post on his mom. Good grief.

 

We've learned in the past that if we don't merge threads then people feel free to starat a brand new thread on whatever thought pops in their head and we end up with 15 different threads from 15 different posters who all feel the need to make their own individual keynote speech. Experience has taught us that those multiple threads are far more detrimental to the board than the occasional longish thread.

 

 

Thanks, I totally agree but it's because I'm not one of Simon's favorite posters. He threaten to ban me years ago when he thought that I was using other user names and that I was a troll. Truth be told was that my friend/boss is a Miami fan and was putting in false rumors, sensationalism etc on the same computer system at work. He wouldn't believe a word that I was saying and at the time I didn't want to ray out my friend. Ever since then I never felt that I got a fair shake out of this guy. Man, that felt good to get that out after all these years! Lol!

 

Actually Tips, since we deal with so many posters I have no recollection of the incident you're referring to. Although if there were multiple trollish posts starting false rumors from a single account, I'm not surprised I sent you a knock it off or leave message. I also have a hard time understanding how I "didn't believe a word you were saying" when you admittedly weren't saying anything because you didn't want to rat out your buddy.

I apologize if you felt that I've harbored some sort of grudge against you; considering that I don't even recall the incident, I have no ill feelings toward you whatsoever and have actually enjoyed many of your posts. In the future, if you feel I've done wrong by you, please feel free to tell me about it instead of holding it in for years. You seem like a decent fellow and I have no doubt the discussion would have been 100X more reasonable than the vitriol us janitors catch sometimes.

Whatever your worry is/was, you can let it go bro cuz there's no worries on this end.

 

Some people like to feel really big in their teeny, tiny world........

 

Oh, the irony of catching one across the bow from out of nowhere while I was actually typing an apology to Tipster....

Example # 3,974 of the insults I was referring to.

[Fan in San Diego]

This.

 

To call it a selfish act shows a real lack of empathy. Like you said, 90% of the time these are very sick people who see no way out of their situations. A few years back I experienced a prolonged period of major depression (which I mostly successfully hid from my loved ones) that had me on the precipice of taking my own life. I had made up my mind to do it on the way home from grad school one night, when I happened to run into a friend on the way to the subway. After spending some time with them, I felt just well enough to stay here for one more day. That was the one extra day I needed to come clean with my family and finally ask for help. You literally can't see the forest for the trees when you're effected by mental illness. And I think it's definitely harder for men to seek help. We are raised not to show weakness - mentally or physically. When you're suffering and you're programmed not to seek help, sometimes taking your life can seem like the only solution.

 

Glad your still here with us!

 

While attempted suicide by shooting oneself in the chest isn't uncommon as I thought, it is still suspicious. I've seen too many mob movies maybe, but I hope the case is thoroughly investigated with open minds.

I guess it makes sense if you want your brain donated to science for study. Except he forgot to leave the note for that part. Or the girlfriend took it.

[Just Jack]

We've learned in the past that if we don't merge threads then people feel free to start a brand new thread on whatever thought pops in their head and we end up with 15 different threads from 15 different posters who all feel the need to make their own individual keynote speech. Experience has taught us that those multiple threads are far more detrimental to the board than the occasional longish thread.

I merged 5 or 6 threads about Seau into this one yesterday.

[Jon in Pasadena]

Thanks, any advice on how to differentiate the observable signs to being seriously depressed or to being a bills fan?

 

Regular depression has a chance of getting better eventually.

[Tipster19]

We've learned in the past that if we don't merge threads then people feel free to starat a brand new thread on whatever thought pops in their head and we end up with 15 different threads from 15 different posters who all feel the need to make their own individual keynote speech. Experience has taught us that those multiple threads are far more detrimental to the board than the occasional longish thread.

 

 

 

 

Actually Tips, since we deal with so many posters I have no recollection of the incident you're referring to. Although if there were multiple trollish posts starting false rumors from a single account, I'm not surprised I sent you a knock it off or leave message. I also have a hard time understanding how I "didn't believe a word you were saying" when you admittedly weren't saying anything because you didn't want to rat out your buddy.

I apologize if you felt that I've harbored some sort of grudge against you; considering that I don't even recall the incident, I have no ill feelings toward you whatsoever and have actually enjoyed many of your posts. In the future, if you feel I've done wrong by you, please feel free to tell me about it instead of holding it in for years. You seem like a decent fellow and I have no doubt the discussion would have been 100X more reasonable than the vitriol us janitors catch sometimes.

Whatever your worry is/was, you can let it go bro cuz there's no worries on this end.

Let me just nip this in the bud before it starts getting legs! LOl! There is absolutely no ill feelings on my part and I'm very happy to know that there is none on your part Simon. I was brand new at the time and I guess that I was mostly insulted because someone would actually think that I'm a troll because I have never been nothing but passionate about my Bills. We exchanged a few private messages and I was left with feeling that you thought that I was full of **** and left me frustrated. No big deal, I have gotten over that a long time ago and it's nice to know that you don't hold any malice towards me. Btw, thanks for the beer, I'm actually having one right now! LOL!

 

I did feel that the thread that I posted was really more to do with his mother than about Junior. Either way it doesn't matter. Let me stop because I accidently have started hijacking this poor guy's thread.

[Spun]

I have been very close to family and friends going through severe depression. Some have threatened suicide but never tried. Others tried and couldn't finish it while others sadly completed the act. Then, there are the ones with no apparent warning, just checkout. Unfortunately, I have been one of the frustrated and angry ones left behind trying to understand and wishing I could have done something more. I also know what it like to have my father pass away at 42 (not suicide) when I was 3. It is easy to assume that it is selfish when one leaves behind people who do care about the deceased. But the human mind is much more complex than that. Sometimes the perception is that people don't care even when that isn't the reality.

 

Last night, I heard a radio interview with Jerry Rice. Rice was good friends with Junior and had recently seen him at a golf outing. Rice asked Junior how everything was going and Junior responded favorably. Apparently, Junior was masking the truth.

 

In our culture, guys typically keep things inside while the females are better able to let out the good and the bad. Us guys mask what ever may be troubling us for a multitude of reasons including difficulty and discomfort expressing our feelings or embarrassment. How many people do we know who habitually respond favorably to a "how are you?" even when things aren't well? Mental illness is stigmatized in the U.S. What does mental illness look like? Look around. It could be anybody. Many don't get help when they need it. And some go for help and it just doesn't work.

 

We may never know what was troubling Junior. It probably isn't any of our business. It wasn't uncommon to see Junior around town here in San Diego. He was a success on and off the field. He was surrounded by caring friends and family. His restaurant was doing well. He was a guy who was known to be generous. He tipped the local bar and restaurant staffs very well. He liked to party. He loved the ladies. His was an American success story. His parents moved here not knowing english. He grew up in a very rough area of Oceanside. He excelled at an elite university, USC. Celebs have a public persona but few of us really know the real person. It doesn't make sense to us. But suicide rarely makes sense to those left behind.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

First of all I'd like to say that there are several posters in this thread who have helped frame this issue by coming clean with their own experiences with depression. Coincidentally or not, these posters are some of my favorites on this board. I had another friend on this board who was suicidal and he is doing great now and doesn't come to this board anymore (hmmm…).

 

Please accept my thanks for you personal disclosures in your attempts to help others understand the problem.

 

Also forgive me if I question/disagree with some of your takes. As I stated before I have in my life been sad and self-pitying and probably suffered seasonal affective disorders but I do not believe I've had anything approaching full-on clinical depression.

 

If Junior could have resisted the urge to pull the trigger, he would have eventually realized the error of that kind of thinking and become a better, happier man.

I don't quite buy this hondo and here's why. Let's say his brain was clogged with all the tau proteins associated with CTE and that there was zero therapy or medication which could make him feel right. There's a chance that what Seau was suffering from is similar to what Andre Waters, Mike Webster, Dave Duerson, and Justin Strelczyk suffered from: namely uncontrollable fits of rage, dementia on the level of an 85-year old man, chronic and acute memory loss, chronic and acute paranoia, etc.

 

My point is that with many of these players, we're probably not dealing simply with depression. What if they have conditions for which there is no known cure?

 

Great post. It can be prevented. It is very difficult to detect. If you think someone has the above signs, you can't always confront them and may want to seek out qualified help from a psychologist/social worker, etc. before doing so.

 

Regular depression has a chance of getting better eventually.

Yes, regular depression can be successfully treated. But what if it's not regular depression?

 

I'd like to get back to the idea of selfishness and cowardice with regard to suicide because I raised the question before and no one wished to respond.

 

Some people with CTE have exhibited extreme rage behavior. Some athletes that met a violent end are suspected of having CTE and using drugs to deal with the anxiety and confusion caused by CTE. There is talk that people like the late NHL enforcers John Kordic and Derek Boogard suffered from CTE. I've heard it suggested that Barrett Robbins suffers from CTE. The late Justin Strelczyk had CTE.

 

My point is if you thought that you were a violent threat to loved ones, is it selfish to kill yourself in order to protect them from you?

 

How many times has a murderer killed his own family before turning the gun on himself? Would it not be much less selfish to simply kill yourself and spare the lives of others?

 

If you were incapacited with dementia and rage and thought that the best way out was to kill yourself, leave a suicide note stipulating that your brain be studied, and shoot yourself in the chest to preserve your brain… is that a selfish act?

 

In the context of being diagnosed with a disease which will allow your family to collect a hefty life insurance benefit, is this a selfish act?

 

Would it be better if the person suffering from CTE was a drugged-up, incapacitated, burden on their family for 4 decades before he died?

 

I'm not trying to do anything other than have people consider that what Seau and others are suffering from might not be regular depression… that it might be something for which there is zero cure and that those who have CTE are sentenced to a life of progressive advanced dementia, memory loss, confusion, paranoia, and fits of rage… all at an early age.

Edited May 4, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Toshiero]

It has shocked me how many have been insensitive to this situation and even went so far as to call Seau Selfish. I really hope most of the holier than thou never face this in their own lives. Those posting that most likely have never been in that darkness with one foot already off the cliff.

 

First of all I'd like to say that there are several posters in this thread who have helped frame this issue by coming clean with their own experiences with depression. Coincidentally or not, these posters are some of my favorites on this board. I had another friend on this board who was suicidal and he is doing great now and doesn't come to this board anymore (hmmm…).

 

Please accept my thanks for you personal disclosures in your attempts to help others understand the problem.

 

Also forgive me if I question/disagree with some of your takes. As I stated before I have in my life been sad and self-pitying and probably suffered seasonal affective disorders but I do not believe I've had anything approaching full-on clinical depression.

 

 

I don't quite buy this hondo and here's why. Let's say his brain was clogged with all the tau proteins associated with CTE and that there was zero therapy or medication which could make him feel right. There's a chance that what Seau was suffering from is similar to what Andre Waters, Mike Webster, Dave Duerson, and Justin Strelczyk suffered from: namely uncontrollable fits of rage, dementia on the level of an 85-year old man, chronic and acute memory loss, chronic and acute paranoia, etc.

 

My point is that with many of these players, we're probably not dealing simply with depression. What if they have conditions for which there is no known cure?

 

 

 

 

Yes, regular depression can be successfully treated. But what if it's not regular depression?

 

I'd like to get back to the idea of selfishness and cowardice with regard to suicide because I raised the question before and no one wished to respond.

 

Some people with CTE have exhibited extreme rage behavior. Some athletes that met a violent end are suspected of having CTE and using drugs to deal with the anxiety and confusion caused by CTE. There is talk that people like the late NHL enforcers John Kordic and Derek Boogard suffered from CTE. I've heard it suggested that Barrett Robbins suffers from CTE. The late Justin Strelczyk had CTE.

 

My point is if you thought that you were a violent threat to loved ones, is it selfish to kill yourself in order to protect them from you?

 

How many times has a murderer killed his own family before turning the gun on himself? Would it not be much less selfish to simply kill yourself and spare the lives of others?

 

If you were incapacited with dementia and rage and thought that the best way out was to kill yourself, leave a suicide note stipulating that your brain be studied, and shoot yourself in the chest to preserve your brain… is that a selfish act?

 

In the context of being diagnosed with a disease which will allow your family to collect a hefty life insurance benefit, is this a selfish act?

 

Would it be better if the person suffering from CTE was a drugged-up, incapacitated, burden on their family for 4 decades before they died?

 

I'm not trying to do anything other than have people consider that what Seau and others are suffering from might not be regular depression… that it might be something for which there is zero cure and that those who have CTE are sentenced to a life of progressive advanced dementia, memory loss, confusion, paranoia, and fits of rage… all at an early age.

 

Chris Benoit from the WWE is a classic example. Everyone screamed 'Roid rage' when the morons never witnessed Roid rage or they would have know this was not it. After his father agreed to let Chris' brain be examined they concluded he suffered from CTE I believe. he had the same damage and markers several others studied had.

[bbb]

First of all I'd like to say that there are several posters in this thread who have helped frame this issue by coming clean with their own experiences with depression. Coincidentally or not, these posters are some of my favorites on this board. I had another friend on this board who was suicidal and he is doing great now and doesn't come to this board anymore (hmmm…).

 

Please accept my thanks for you personal disclosures in your attempts to help others understand the problem.

 

Also forgive me if I question/disagree with some of your takes. As I stated before I have in my life been sad and self-pitying and probably suffered seasonal affective disorders but I do not believe I've had anything approaching full-on clinical depression.

 

 

I don't quite buy this hondo and here's why. Let's say his brain was clogged with all the tau proteins associated with CTE and that there was zero therapy or medication which could make him feel right. There's a chance that what Seau was suffering from is similar to what Andre Waters, Mike Webster, Dave Duerson, and Justin Strelczyk suffered from: namely uncontrollable fits of rage, dementia on the level of an 85-year old man, chronic and acute memory loss, chronic and acute paranoia, etc.

 

My point is that with many of these players, we're probably not dealing simply with depression. What if they have conditions for which there is no known cure?

 

 

 

 

Yes, regular depression can be successfully treated. But what if it's not regular depression?

 

I'd like to get back to the idea of selfishness and cowardice with regard to suicide because I raised the question before and no one wished to respond.

 

Some people with CTE have exhibited extreme rage behavior. Some athletes that met a violent end are suspected of having CTE and using drugs to deal with the anxiety and confusion caused by CTE. There is talk that people like the late NHL enforcers John Kordic and Derek Boogard suffered from CTE. I've heard it suggested that Barrett Robbins suffers from CTE. The late Justin Strelczyk had CTE.

 

My point is if you thought that you were a violent threat to loved ones, is it selfish to kill yourself in order to protect them from you?

 

How many times has a murderer killed his own family before turning the gun on himself? Would it not be much less selfish to simply kill yourself and spare the lives of others?

 

If you were incapacited with dementia and rage and thought that the best way out was to kill yourself, leave a suicide note stipulating that your brain be studied, and shoot yourself in the chest to preserve your brain… is that a selfish act?

 

In the context of being diagnosed with a disease which will allow your family to collect a hefty life insurance benefit, is this a selfish act?

 

Would it be better if the person suffering from CTE was a drugged-up, incapacitated, burden on their family for 4 decades before he died?

 

I'm not trying to do anything other than have people consider that what Seau and others are suffering from might not be regular depression… that it might be something for which there is zero cure and that those who have CTE are sentenced to a life of progressive advanced dementia, memory loss, confusion, paranoia, and fits of rage… all at an early age.

 

While I generally agree with those who think that suicide is very selfish act (maybe not necessarily the person doing it.) If you're not thinking about what it will do to your family and friends, then you are being selfish or self-centered, whether you know it or not............I know that what it would do to my parents has always stopped any thought of it from progressing to a planning stage or anything more than a thought for me.

 

But, I have to agree with this and I was thinking about it myself yesterday. If somebody knows that they are now hard wired for fits of rage, etc., maybe they are not being selfish in taking themselves out of the equation (or at least in their mind - they are at least thinking of what it will do to others.

 

I've often heard it said when somebody shoots up his family then himself or similar scenarios "Why didn't he just kill himself? Why'd he have to take somebody else with him?"............If you look at it this way, maybe it's not so selfish (if he knew he was going to be a threat to himself or others).

[ieatcrayonz]

There were like 3 suicides of ex NHL players this summer.

 

And it just goes to show you that no matter what you have or what you achieved, depression doesn't discriminate. I love the big hits and hate the way the game is becoming flag football, but this shos that they do need to continue with the changes. RIP Seau and if you are honestly making jokes about this, you're a sad human being.

I was not making a joke. I don't know why you thought that. I was just trying to say that I did remember a baseball suicide which was a question/point from a previous poster.

[Mr. WEO]

Has there been reported anywhere that Junior suffered from rage or dementia or memory loss or any of the symptoms associated with Mike Webster's form of disease?

[Bill from NYC]

I pretty much took a break from and gave up on all politics at that time, and havent been back to that either -- which was another major reason that I didn't go back to the PPP board. I wasn't following the stories closely. I got sick of both sides of the aisle being disingenuous azzholes, I got sick of the media being disingenuous azzholes, I got sick of the ill-spirited and ill-informed people arguing about it who were just as bad, including myself.

 

I feel as if I posted this lol!

[Bufcomments]

When I heard the news I was shocked not Junior....

 

Dude must have been going though something deep to take his life, seems like the last person in the world who would do something like that.

 

saw his moms interview, truly sad.

 

RIP Junior, I hope you find peace in Heaven.

 

I hope the NFL does manditory classes on how to transition back into public life, maybe his death will be a positive in that regard. Clearly he struggled with it. Driving off a cliff was a warning sign.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I hope the NFL does manditory classes on how to transition back into public life, maybe his death will be a positive in that regard. Clearly he struggled with it. Driving off a cliff was a warning sign.

And driving his car off the cliff was shortly after he was released by law enforcement following his arrest for domestic violence.

 

That was the early warning sign that life after football was perhaps not going so well.

 

However like Duerson, Seau had been making public appearances and for the most part, seemed like the same guy he had always been.

 

 

[MattM]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/12306507-419/lets-use-junior-seau-tragedy-as-opportunity-to-learn.html

 

Interesting piece by Brandon Marshall, of all people. Sounds like he's had his own mental health issues and so wanted to comment on the Seau situation. Takes some guts to come forward like he did, so I applaud him for that....