Stevie Johnson Contract SIGNED

[CBD]

Its crazy to want to get rid of a wr that has great chemistry with a qb...to bring in another wr to replace the wr you lost...and hope they can emake a similar or bigger impact

They're attempting to resign him, which shows they don't "want to get rid" of Stevie. Obviously Stevie is very interested in money if the negotiations are reportedly going poorly. Why wouldn't he wait until free agency?

 

but that comes with a caveat: resiging our BEST offensive weapon. is the market for wide receivers too pricey? i dont care. you don't buy all the ingredients to make a cake, then complain about sugar prices and tell your kid he's getting dinner rolls for his birthday party instead.

Nice one.

[ryan42790]

Jeeez everyone needs to calm down for a second. Free Agency is still about a month away, it seems that both sides are still talking, and besides Santonio Holmes there really hasn't been any real resigning in the NFL so it's not like the Bills are being the lazy ones in the NFL.

 

Just wait till after the combine talks. If the Bills and Stevie are still "far apart" then I can see some need to worry, till then there is no reason to believe that this deal will get done, other than superstition "The Bills NEVER sign good players."

[Wayne Cubed]

They're attempting to resign him, which shows they don't "want to get rid" of Stevie. Obviously Stevie is very interested in money if the negotiations are reportedly going poorly. Why wouldn't he wait until free agency?

 

 

Nice one.

 

The report said far apart, but it didn't say where. Could be years, could be signing bonus, could be up front money. Doesn't necessarily mean Stevie is interested in the money aspect. Maybe he wants stability, ie more years on the contract. Point is people can only guess at what the hold up is, because a source, who is unnamed, came forward right after they had exchanged offers and were going to talk it out some more(coincidence? prolly not) and a gave a really vague statement.

 

IMO this is a ruse used by either the Bills or Johnsons agent.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Wayne333

[CBD]

Could be years, could signing bonus, could be up front money. Doesn't necessarily mean Stevie is interested in the money aspect. Maybe he wants stability, ie more years on the contract.

Wouldn't every single one of those things involve more money in the contract? Regardless, the point is if the Bills arent giving him exactly what he wants he'll wait till free agency and see if someone else will. He holds all the cards.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Carey Bender

[mountainwampus]

Has anyone ever noticed how many NFL players go into decline after huge pay increases? Remember how the Patriots let Deion Branch walk after being the Super Bowl MVP? He was earning 1M/y, Pats offered 4M/y, eventually left for 7M in Seattle where he failed to live up to the hype (less production, injuries). Eventually, Branch comes back and gets the 4M/y (avg) that the Pats originally offered. Seems like the Pats have the smartest front office in the business.

[RealityCheck]

Stevie is a good receiver, he just isn't great. 6 million a year, sure. Is he worth 9 million a year, I just don't see it. It will be interesting how the rest of the league values him. For his sake financially I hope he doesn't end up like Dante.

[KOKBILLS]

The report said far apart, but it didn't say where. Could be years, could be signing bonus, could be up front money. Doesn't necessarily mean Stevie is interested in the money aspect. Maybe he wants stability, ie more years on the contract. Point is people can only guess at what the hold up is, because a source, who is unnamed, came forward right after they had exchanged offers and were going to talk it out some more(coincidence? prolly not) and a gave a really vague statement.

 

IMO this is a ruse used by either the Bills or Johnsons agent.

 

It's about money...

 

It's always about money...

 

Take that to the bank...Pun intended...

[Dorkington]

I really hope we're actively looking at other WR talents. And not the big name guys. There's a very real possibility that we will not have a #1 caliber receiver on the team next year.

 

Or do we think we'll be fine with David Nelson, Brad Smith, and other scrubs?

[ThurmasThoman]

The Giants allowed more points 394 vs 400 than they scored during the season. I believe the only Super Bowl winner (or contestant) to ever do that.

 

If the Bills had an abundance of talent at the WR position resigning Johnson would not be so important. But given the lack of playmakers at the position, losing the only WR on the roster with decent numbers would be foolish. They might need to overpay but that's what you get for waiting too long to get serious about contract negotiations and then having to deal from a position of weakness with each day that brings them closer to the start of free agency. You don't get better by letting good players go and creating more 'needs' to fill. You get better by filling needs before they appear by grooming back ups with starter potential and not letting players walk until you have a backup plan in place.

 

Close the gap in the contract numbers and get it done.

 

this is exactly, 100% true.

 

you DO NOT build through free agency. you build through the draft. period.

 

we're close, we're very very close.

 

sign stevie. OVER PAY STEVIE. whatever. draft a wideout. maybe marcus easley blossoms (or even plays) this year. who knows.

 

then next year, we have THREE wideouts that are "too expensive." sign em all, trade 2. get 5 draft picks. draft 2 wideouts and 3 linebackers.

 

rinse. repeat. win.

 

its how the patriots packers steelers and giants do it. and its how they win superbowls.

 

its like, were sitting here with a top 10 receiver drafted in the 7th round, and a league leading rb that went undrafted. and we need to hit free agency for vincent jackson? NO. wrong. sign our own, lock them up, draft their replacements. then when their stock is high but their value to us is marginalized, trade them and get the picks.

[jumbalaya]

We have no choice but to pay Stevie. Franchise him or pay him. If he winds up in a Jets, Fins or Pats uniform we will regret it for years. We will be drafting the "franchise receiver" this year, next year and the year after ala the Detroit Lions. Took them three times to get it right.

Edited February 21, 2012 by jumbalaya

[ThurmasThoman]

Stevie is a good receiver, he just isn't great. 6 million a year, sure. Is he worth 9 million a year, I just don't see it. It will be interesting how the rest of the league values him. For his sake financially I hope he doesn't end up like Dante.

 

but you have to value consistency too, more than numbers.

 

if we can retain johnson, were looking at the same coach, qb, #1 wideout, and rb

 

entering camp for the third year in a row.

 

that hasn't happened in buffalo since the 1996 season with marv, kelly, reed and thurm.

 

think about that for a second:

 

its been 16 seasons since we entered camp with those positions unchanged for a 3rd season in a row.

 

there is no reason to think we couldn't win 12-14 games with our offense healthy, and a big defensive draft.

 

resigning steve johnson is more important that resigning a lease on the ralph.

[Dorkington]

but you have to value consistency too, more than numbers.

 

if we can retain johnson, were looking at the same coach, qb, #1 wideout, and rb

 

entering camp for the third year in a row.

 

that hasn't happened in buffalo since the 1996 season with marv, kelly, reed and thurm.

 

think about that for a second:

 

its been 16 seasons since we entered camp with those positions unchanged for a 3rd season in a row.

 

there is no reason to think we couldn't win 12-14 games with our offense healthy, and a big defensive draft.

 

resigning steve johnson is more important that resigning a lease on the ralph.

 

Exactly.

 

Our offense is pretty decent, we just need to *keep it together*. Sure, we could use some WR depth, but that's cheap/easy. Letting our best WR walk though is just foolish.

 

Bring back Stevie, concentrate on defense, and sign some depth at WR, OT and TE (assuming we can keep Chandler).

[EldaBillsFan]

Someone said its about money for Stevie....its ALWAYS ABOUT MONEY!...

 

They problem is we have an Old Coach and a Old GM...with old mind sets.....you lock young good players in early....you can't let them be swayed by warmer cities..... that's why the Steelers keep their players....the Pats....you keep building with good young...then eventually it clicks....you can't do it through FA's when nobody wants to be in the city because it has little to offer and they see that you don't take care of the good players you have....we have let a lot of good players go over and over....its fine to replace them but imagine if we just kept them (granted some wanted more than there worth)

[ThurmasThoman]

Someone said its about money for Stevie....its ALWAYS ABOUT MONEY!...

 

They problem is we have an Old Coach and a Old GM...with old mind sets.....you lock young good players in early....you can't let them be swayed by warmer cities..... that's why the Steelers keep their players....the Pats....you keep building with good young...then eventually it clicks....you can't do it through FA's when nobody wants to be in the city because it has little to offer and they see that you don't take care of the good players you have....we have let a lot of good players go over and over....its fine to replace them but imagine if we just kept them (granted some wanted more than there worth)

 

there are some really great posts in this thread, and this is one of the best.

 

let me admit something: i am a homer. the bills can do no wrong in my eyes. if we're 0-7 im watching the 8th game, because a far bigger piece of me than im willing to admit believes that we're going to win out and be the 9-7 team that wins a super bowl. people say bills fans are pessimistic-i think i am wildly, blindly optimistic. so, along those lines, i really really try to stay away from criticizing management or our coaches - i believe in my heart they want to win just as much as i do.

 

BUT

 

i will say this: we have a gap in our organizational philosophy that needs to be addressed. we have had good to great drafts since the super bowl years, and there have been some good to great players that have worn our jersey. people have a misconception that winning teams field all stars at every position - thats simply not the case. ive watched most of this patriots "dynasty" thats taken place for a decade, and let me tell you, they have no running back, they have 2 wideouts who are 5'8 white guys, they have wideouts in their secondary: these guys are not the harlem globe trotters on astro turf, to say the least.

 

but what they manage to do, along with most of the other perennially succesful clubs in the league, is keep their own when its cheap, and replace them with DRAFT PICKS when its not.

 

that's where the bills mess up, time and time again. letting good players walk - FOR NOTHING. and what it does, is it makes the draft look bad. its like, you draft stevie in 08. in 2010 he had a damn good season, and wasn't on anyones radar. but I knew he was good. YOU knew he was good. NIX knew he was good. WE ALL KNEW HE WAS GOOD. that was the time to sign him to a cheap, bad contract for 6 years. but we let him play this year on his rookie(?) deal. and what happened, he played great for 4 games. we should have signed him THEN to a marginal contract. but we didnt. and now, the year ends, free agency is set to begin, the league knows he is a great (yes, not good, great) receiver, his price is through the roof, and the bidding war begins.

 

but the problem isnt that it might be expensive to sign him, the problem is that if he leaves, we get nothing. NOTHING. just like POZ.

 

the patriots just almost won the super bowl. they have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. we just finished 6-10. we have 3 picks in the first 3 rounds.

THAT is what is wrong with the buffalo bills.

 

we have to start signing our middle of the road talent to sweet heart deals after their 2nd year. we need to start taking risks at THAT end of our organization. spend a little money on guys who might never be great... but if they ARE great and want to leave, we can load up on picks. or they can stay and we have a great player.

[dpberr]

These types of articles are negotiation ploys with the "sources".

 

Time kills a deal. Too quickly, one side gets really disappointed. Too long, both sides get disappointed. Just right, both sides walk away slightly disappointed but generally happy.

 

I think the timing of SJ's deal is still in good shape. Haggling is an art form.

[RealityCheck]

These types of articles are negotiation ploys with the "sources".

 

Time kills a deal. Too quickly, one side gets really disappointed. Too long, both sides get disappointed. Just right, both sides walk away slightly disappointed but generally happy.

 

I think the timing of SJ's deal is still in good shape. Haggling is an art form.

Well said. I would not be surprised if a few days before FA that a deal is finalized.

 

there are some really great posts in this thread, and this is one of the best.

 

let me admit something: i am a homer. the bills can do no wrong in my eyes. if we're 0-7 im watching the 8th game, because a far bigger piece of me than im willing to admit believes that we're going to win out and be the 9-7 team that wins a super bowl. people say bills fans are pessimistic-i think i am wildly, blindly optimistic. so, along those lines, i really really try to stay away from criticizing management or our coaches - i believe in my heart they want to win just as much as i do.

 

BUT

 

i will say this: we have a gap in our organizational philosophy that needs to be addressed. we have had good to great drafts since the super bowl years, and there have been some good to great players that have worn our jersey. people have a misconception that winning teams field all stars at every position - thats simply not the case. ive watched most of this patriots "dynasty" thats taken place for a decade, and let me tell you, they have no running back, they have 2 wideouts who are 5'8 white guys, they have wideouts in their secondary: these guys are not the harlem globe trotters on astro turf, to say the least.

 

but what they manage to do, along with most of the other perennially succesful clubs in the league, is keep their own when its cheap, and replace them with DRAFT PICKS when its not.

 

that's where the bills mess up, time and time again. letting good players walk - FOR NOTHING. and what it does, is it makes the draft look bad. its like, you draft stevie in 08. in 2010 he had a damn good season, and wasn't on anyones radar. but I knew he was good. YOU knew he was good. NIX knew he was good. WE ALL KNEW HE WAS GOOD. that was the time to sign him to a cheap, bad contract for 6 years. but we let him play this year on his rookie(?) deal. and what happened, he played great for 4 games. we should have signed him THEN to a marginal contract. but we didnt. and now, the year ends, free agency is set to begin, the league knows he is a great (yes, not good, great) receiver, his price is through the roof, and the bidding war begins.

 

but the problem isnt that it might be expensive to sign him, the problem is that if he leaves, we get nothing. NOTHING. just like POZ.

 

the patriots just almost won the super bowl. they have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. we just finished 6-10. we have 3 picks in the first 3 rounds.

THAT is what is wrong with the buffalo bills.

 

we have to start signing our middle of the road talent to sweet heart deals after their 2nd year. we need to start taking risks at THAT end of our organization. spend a little money on guys who might never be great... but if they ARE great and want to leave, we can load up on picks. or they can stay and we have a great player.

Don't ever be ashamed to admit that you are a homer. You make a lot of sense to me.

[D521646]

I was browsing other fan fourms today and the sense out there is that ANY of those teams fan base would take SJ in a heartbeat. I'd say 75% would of course there are some that don't want him comparing him to TO and Moss cancers, but they simply don't know much about how great of a character guy SJ really is.

 

 

Tim-

[BeastMode54]

I'll try to find a link but it seems that he wants around 8 and the Bills will only pay 6. If this is true and we lose him I'm gonna b livid

[stony]

Has anyone ever noticed how many NFL players go into decline after huge pay increases? Remember how the Patriots let Deion Branch walk after being the Super Bowl MVP? He was earning 1M/y, Pats offered 4M/y, eventually left for 7M in Seattle where he failed to live up to the hype (less production, injuries). Eventually, Branch comes back and gets the 4M/y (avg) that the Pats originally offered. Seems like the Pats have the smartest front office in the business.

 

Yeah, and having Brady throwing to him didn't affect his stats?

 

There's just as many guys who play hard after their payday as there are that tank it after they get paid. The media and many fan's 'innate negativity' just like to highlight the guys who suck after the big payday.

[Beerball]

Someone said its about money for Stevie....its ALWAYS ABOUT MONEY!...

 

They problem is we have an Old Coach and a Old GM...with old mind sets.....you lock young good players in early....you can't let them be swayed by warmer cities..... that's why the Steelers keep their players....the Pats....you keep building with good young...then eventually it clicks....you can't do it through FA's when nobody wants to be in the city because it has little to offer and they see that you don't take care of the good players you have....we have let a lot of good players go over and over....its fine to replace them but imagine if we just kept them (granted some wanted more than there worth)

GM does not involve himself in contract negotiations and I'd hazzard to guess neither does the HC.

[DanInUticaTampa]

I don't know. Nix and gailey seem like financial wizards to me. Turned down big wall street jobs to run our football team

[thewildrabbit]

this.

 

every year, certain "talking points" emerge in the discourse surrounding the NFL, and this year, it has been "injuries are not an excuse."

 

i do not know who started this (my best guess is jim rome-he's the first person i heard bring this up, and it's certainly been repeated since then) but now that phrase has taken on a life of it's own, to the point that it has become a given. hardly worth discussing.

"you can't use injuries as an excuse, look at the _________ "

"this is a next man up league, so don't use injuries as an excuse."

and on and on. its all gabage.

 

the buffalo bills started the season 5-2, beat the afc conference champions at home, and lost to the eventual league champions on the road in the final minutes of a close game. following injuries to our: quarterback, running back, oline, wideouts, linebackers, dline, kicker and secondary, we began to fall apart, and missed the playoffs. these injuries are partly bad luck, but partly due to the fact that there was no offseason conditioning, there was no training camp, there were no mini camps.

 

pessimistic bills fans will counter with: "good teams find ways to win in situations like that."

 

i will counter with this: that was one of the worst seasons of professional football i have ever seen in my life. the patriots won our conference after beating denver in the divisional round by 30 points--a denver team we had beaten at home 3 weeks earlier by the same margin. they won our conference by beating baltimore in the championship game after baltimore dropped the game winning touchdown and shanked the game tying, 20 yard field goal. they won our conference despite baltimore being the only team all season they beat with a winning record. baltimore was only playing in that game because THEY barely beat houston's third string quarterback at home. a houston team that got to face cincinnati's rookie qb in round one.

 

and in the national conference, you have the 9-7, super bowl champion new york giants. a team that had to beat the cowboys in week 17 just to get into the playoffs.

 

quality of play across the league was down all year, it wasn't even a war of attrition. it was simply: one team is going to win the superbowl, who is it.

 

how far, really, are the bills from these groups of teams? from a super bowl champion 9-7 giants team?

from a can't beat a team with a winning record, hell, can't even beat the buffalo bills new england patriots team?

from a divisional round denver broncos team?

 

we're close. and injuries prevented us from clearing that hurdle this year. but next year? we absolutely should expect the best from this team.

 

but that comes with a caveat: resiging our BEST offensive weapon. is the market for wide receivers too pricey? i dont care. you don't buy all the ingredients to make a cake, then complain about sugar prices and tell your kid he's getting dinner rolls for his birthday party instead.

 

we got a coach that loves slants, curls and screens. we got a qb that can't throw it further than 10 yards in a dome, and we got an oline that looks great when the ball is thrown in 2 seconds or less. we NEED a young, fast, strong, durable wideout that knows where the first down marker is and can get there every time. that knows what fitzs limitations are and can adjust his route accordingly. people want a "true" number 1? that's great, but if you're picturing fitz hitting vincent jackson in stride on a beatufiul 50 yard go pattern, i think you should be picturing vince young or jamarcus russel throwing that pass, because that simply isn't how our offense works, or is capable of working.

 

bottom line - resign stevie, make the playoffs.

First off injuries matter, they happened to the Packers 2 years ago with 15+ players on IR and they still won the SB. The Pack did it just like the NY GIants did it at 9-7 from a wildcard. The Giants suffered also many injuries this year, including losing their starting LT, but they moved a guard to LT and the team didn't miss a beat. The difference between the Bills and Packers & Giants is those teams had enough depth on their roster to survive the injuries. The Bills didn't, pure and simple. So in order to overcome the injuries that every team seems to face in today's NFL either re-hire Rusty Jones (ex Bills S&C coach who Malarkey fired) away from Chicago or add more quality depth.

 

In the Bills case they HAD some depth, they chose to trade away Lee Evans at WR and cut back up C / G Hangarter in pre season . That latter cut was probably a cost savings move that really screwed the team as they had no viable back up at center and in some games the Bills couldn't even get the snap off effectually in several games after Eric Wood went on IR.

 

IDGAD what anyone says, trading away Lee Evans hurt the team more then anyone realizes. Lee became an after thought in Gaileys offense because its predicated on a short-quick passing game. Evans was known for being a deep threat and wasn't being thrown to by Fitz very often.So the trade was justified by some. The result of that trade was that the Bills no longer had a viable deep passing game threat once Evans was gone. Also with Evans gone it was easier for teams to roll coverages to Stevie Johnson plus they could play closer to the line without the fear of Evans beating them deep.

 

"What IF" Instead of trading away Evans they keep him, and draft a top O tackle. Plus they also keep back up C / G Geoff Hangartner. Suddenly the offense doesn't take a nose dive into the toilet this past season when opposing defenses shut down the Bills short passing game, and with stability on the O line it actually opens up the deep passing game so Fitz has the time to take 5-7 step drop at times. Whole new ballgame!

 

 

Lynch, Evans, Maybin all ex #1 draft picks who the bills failed to motivate and utilize properly so they either trade them away for mid round picks or cut them. Looking back at all the idiotic player & coaching moves this team has made over the last decade is it any wonder why they still keep making the wrong moves.

 

 

Buffalo Bills fans should be praying to Jude the Apostle....

[eme123]

Both sides in a negotiation have cards to play and time is a very valuable one. If it is "Fact" that the two sides aren't close 'im not at all surprised or worried.

 

ex. Stevie's camp can use that card by saying "we want this or we will join the pool of FA's on Mar 15". The Bills should come back and say "he's not worth that because "X". "Will you take this? If you guys want to test the market go ahead but be advised that it is saturated with receiving talent"

 

 

I have a feeling that Stevie/Agent aren't offering a discount to the Bills. In fact my guess is that they want more money for him to stay with the Bills. Stevie's demeanor throughout this process has been passive in my opinion.

[benderbender]

I have a feeling that Stevie/Agent aren't offering a discount to the Bills. In fact my guess is that they want more money for him to stay with the Bills. Stevie's demeanor throughout this process has been passive in my opinion.

 

His agent told him if he gets on Twitter and talks about the deal, he'll HAVE to go back to Buffalo. That's why he's so quiet. That plus the cure to foot in mouth disease is the promise of a huge payday in free agency. Sell your 13 Jerseys while they're still worth a nickel.

[Erik]

First off injuries matter, they happened to the Packers 2 years ago with 15+ players on IR and they still won the SB. The Pack did it just like the NY GIants did it at 9-7 from a wildcard. The Giants suffered also many injuries this year, including losing their starting LT, but they moved a guard to LT and the team didn't miss a beat. The difference between the Bills and Packers & Giants is those teams had enough depth on their roster to survive the injuries. The Bills didn't, pure and simple. So in order to overcome the injuries that every team seems to face in today's NFL either re-hire Rusty Jones (ex Bills S&C coach who Malarkey fired) away from Chicago or add more quality depth.

 

In the Bills case they HAD some depth, they chose to trade away Lee Evans at WR and cut back up C / G Hangarter in pre season . That latter cut was probably a cost savings move that really screwed the team as they had no viable back up at center and in some games the Bills couldn't even get the snap off effectually in several games after Eric Wood went on IR.

 

IDGAD what anyone says, trading away Lee Evans hurt the team more then anyone realizes. Lee became an after thought in Gaileys offense because its predicated on a short-quick passing game. Evans was known for being a deep threat and wasn't being thrown to by Fitz very often.So the trade was justified by some. The result of that trade was that the Bills no longer had a viable deep passing game threat once Evans was gone. Also with Evans gone it was easier for teams to roll coverages to Stevie Johnson plus they could play closer to the line without the fear of Evans beating them deep.

 

"What IF" Instead of trading away Evans they keep him, and draft a top O tackle. Plus they also keep back up C / G Geoff Hangartner. Suddenly the offense doesn't take a nose dive into the toilet this past season when opposing defenses shut down the Bills short passing game, and with stability on the O line it actually opens up the deep passing game so Fitz has the time to take 5-7 step drop at times. Whole new ballgame!

 

 

Lynch, Evans, Maybin all ex #1 draft picks who the bills failed to motivate and utilize properly so they either trade them away for mid round picks or cut them. Looking back at all the idiotic player & coaching moves this team has made over the last decade is it any wonder why they still keep making the wrong moves.

 

 

Buffalo Bills fans should be praying to Jude the Apostle....

 

I think your analysis about last year is way off. Rinehart was just fine as the primary interior lineman back up. Wood is one of the best centers in the league so whoever replaced him was a downgrade. I don't see the big downgrade, if any, from Hangartner to Rinehart. Evans was a disaster in Baltimore and dealt with a nagging ankle injury all year so there is no way in assuming that he'd be part of the solution rather than another part of the problem (ie a guy who couldn't contribute because he wasn't healthy.) You have a point about left tackle but there is no way I pick an LT over Dareus in the draft. I can not honestly believe the difference between losing 7 in a row last year and not losing 7 in a row last year was trading Evans, cutting Hantgartner, and not drafting an LT with our top pick.

[DanInUticaTampa]

Yeah, the bills had a good offseason last year. it is the offseasons before last year that were screwy.

 

Really, least year:

 

-the bills had a solid draft. Dareus, williams, sheppard, and harriston all look like they have potential and promise, even if they are not polished yet.

 

-Bringing in Barnett and chandler proved to be awesome signings

 

-Bills brought in a former nfl hc, and a superbowl winnning DC to coach the ILBs.

 

 

If the bills have another offseason this year like they did last year, then they will make the playoffs this year I bet. Though I find it hard to imagine them having as good as an offseason as last year. I don't think picking at 10 will be as easy as picking at 3, we might lose a couple free agents that will create holes, and then lord knows what they are going to really go after in free agency.

 

I am personally expecting a "meh" offseason. Even if they bring in a couple quality players, we will probably lose stevie, bell, and/or chandler. and if we keep 1 or more of those guys, we probably don't bring in anyone special from the outside to upgrade. As for the draft, we have no idea where these guys are going to go. they have too many new people on the front office, and hard to tell if they will be better than, the same, or worse than modrack. People can say ralph is making these picks, and until he is dead, the picks won't get better, but I highly doubt ralph is making all our draft choices. I hope we have an awesome draft, because if we don't, that will just show that that overall on the talent evalulaters did nothing for us.

Edited February 21, 2012 by DanInUticaTampa

[EldaBillsFan]

Just saw Jerry Rice on Nfl32 ...As a sports analyst I lost respect for him

 

When asked who is highest risk free agent at wr he said its Stevie johnson....because of the bonehead plays ....fair enough .....

 

Then asked who has the most value at wr he said Deshawn Jacksom...and I think he has over come his immaturity..... not fair

[DanInUticaTampa]

Saw that as well. They also all said they think he will stay on buffalo even though they are far apart now . And mort said he thinks Stevie will be the best value.

 

But yeah, saying Stevie is immature and giving desean a free pass is silly.

[Nostradamus]

Couple interesting tidbits that give me a little pause for optimism. One is a somewhat random tweet from Johnson.

 

The other was a Russ Brandon direct response to a question posed to him by Bulldog on WGR today. When asked whether Johnson might be franchised, Brandon responded by stating that the franchise tag was an asset available to all team... and that the team is focused upon making Johnson a Bill. While the first part of his answer is vague, it certainly is not negative or dismissive of the idea.

Further, Brandon is a pretty intelligent guy who seems like he has his finger upon the pulse of the community. I think he realizes the team's credibility, already suspect, will take a massive hit if the supposedly rebuilding team doesn't lock up their prized homegrown product. I think he realizes that the season ticket sales will reflect accordingly. My guess is that the deal gets done.

[thewildrabbit]

I think your analysis about last year is way off. Rinehart was just fine as the primary interior lineman back up. Wood is one of the best centers in the league so whoever replaced him was a downgrade. I don't see the big downgrade, if any, from Hangartner to Rinehart. Evans was a disaster in Baltimore and dealt with a nagging ankle injury all year so there is no way in assuming that he'd be part of the solution rather than another part of the problem (ie a guy who couldn't contribute because he wasn't healthy.) You have a point about left tackle but there is no way I pick an LT over Dareus in the draft. I can not honestly believe the difference between losing 7 in a row last year and not losing 7 in a row last year was trading Evans, cutting Hantgartner, and not drafting an LT with our top pick.

Perhaps you are forgetting the game the Bills moved Andy Levite to center against the Dolphins, it was an unmitigated disaster! Anyways, Urbik played center and Rinehart move to guard after that first Dolphins game, and at least he wasn't as god awful as Levitre . The Bills could have moved Hangartner back to center, and Urbik could have stayed at guard. That would have meant more stability on the line the entire year. Then if they draft an OT in the 2nd or 3rd round, again they have more stability for that line which both LT's were injured during the year and again G Andy Levite was moved to LT for awhile.

 

Clearly the line wasn't the same without Wood at center and they cut the only guy that had experience as a Buffalo Bill at center, so the drop off wouldn't have been as bad as it was.

 

Nobody ever said anything about not drafting Marcel Darius, who was graded as the best player in the draft by many. But that line has needed help and depth since they traded away Jason Peters. As for Lee Evans and his injury while with the Ravens, who knows if he suffers that injury in Buffalo. My entire point was that the team had some players that could have clearly helped in last years injury plagued season. Evans wasn't missed in those first 5 games when the short passing game was working. Once it stopped working and the injuries hit they could have really used the guy. Don't forget that Brad Smith is still listed as the #2 WR over David Nelson on the teams website. Interesting to note that now the bills are looking for a deep speed WR...

[Erik]

Perhaps you are forgetting the game the Bills moved Andy Levite to center against the Dolphins, it was an unmitigated disaster! Anyways, Urbik played center and Rinehart move to guard after that first Dolphins game, and at least he wasn't as god awful as Levitre . The Bills could have moved Hangartner back to center, and Urbik could have stayed at guard. That would have meant more stability on the line the entire year. Then if they draft an OT in the 2nd or 3rd round, again they have more stability for that line which both LT's were injured during the year and again G Andy Levite was moved to LT for awhile.

 

Clearly the line wasn't the same without Wood at center and they cut the only guy that had experience as a Buffalo Bill at center, so the drop off wouldn't have been as bad as it was.

 

Nobody ever said anything about not drafting Marcel Darius, who was graded as the best player in the draft by many. But that line has needed help and depth since they traded away Jason Peters. As for Lee Evans and his injury while with the Ravens, who knows if he suffers that injury in Buffalo. My entire point was that the team had some players that could have clearly helped in last years injury plagued season. Evans wasn't missed in those first 5 games when the short passing game was working. Once it stopped working and the injuries hit they could have really used the guy. Don't forget that Brad Smith is still listed as the #2 WR over David Nelson on the teams website. Interesting to note that now the bills are looking for a deep speed WR...

 

Sorry, still not buying it. Yeah there was the Miami game but again they switched to Urbik and Rinehart right after that game and the line seemed to settle then. Again, and it's just my opinion, but I think Rinehart was equal or maybe even a bit better of an option than Hantgartner so I don't think we really missed him. I think you could make the argument that the coaching staff should have realized that Urbik was the better option at C than Levitre rather than keeping Hantgartner over younger and possibly better players on the line.

 

As far as Evans goes, he never fit the offense and he never would have. He couldn't work the middle of the field at all. They want a fast receiver but a fast receiver who will produce in their system. I'd bet any amount of money that the speed receiver that they get for the roster will be able to work underneath. Also will put money that he'll be at least 6 feet tall. Why keep a guy at $9.5 million who would be 4th or 5th on the depth chart? That's not being cheap that's just obvious business. Not to mention that we got a 4th round pick for Evans for 3 catches with Baltimore (assuming that they cut him after the one year).

 

Again, I agree on the left tackle but you can really make the argument about the draft going back years now for numerous positions and missed picks.

 

It all goes back to the original point of the thread. Regardless of all this they need to sign Stevie Johnson to an extension or they are just spinning their wheels again.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Erik

[stony]

Just saw Jerry Rice on Nfl32 ...As a sports analyst I lost respect for him

 

When asked who is highest risk free agent at wr he said its Stevie johnson....because of the bonehead plays ....fair enough .....

 

Then asked who has the most value at wr he said Deshawn Jacksom...and I think he has over come his immaturity..... not fair

 

I'm sure he disclosed his prior affiliation he's had with him too...Not.

 

Seriously though, I had high hopes for him, but he's actually quite bad.

[thewildrabbit]

Sorry, still not buying it. Yeah there was the Miami game but again they switched to Urbik and Rinehart right after that game and the line seemed to settle then. Again, and it's just my opinion, but I think Rinehart was equal or maybe even a bit better of an option than Hantgartner so I don't think we really missed him. I think you could make the argument that the coaching staff should have realized that Urbik was the better option at C than Levitre rather than keeping Hantgartner over younger and possibly better players on the line.

 

As far as Evans goes, he never fit the offense and he never would have. He couldn't work the middle of the field at all. They want a fast receiver but a fast receiver who will produce in their system. I'd bet any amount of money that the speed receiver that they get for the roster will be able to work underneath. Also will put money that he'll be at least 6 feet tall. Why keep a guy at $9.5 million who would be 4th or 5th on the depth chart? That's not being cheap that's just obvious business. Not to mention that we got a 4th round pick for Evans for 3 catches with Baltimore (assuming that they cut him after the one year).

 

Again, I agree on the left tackle but you can really make the argument about the draft going back years now for numerous positions and missed picks.

 

It all goes back to the original point of the thread. Regardless of all this they need to sign Stevie Johnson to an extension or they are just spinning their wheels again.

Clearly there was a huge drop off once Wood went on IR, and it remained throughout the rest of the season. Hanggartner was the only player on the team with experience at center for the Buffalo Bills and used to snapping to Fitz, so the drop off would have been marginal. The Bills cut their own throat on that move whether you believe it or not. Hangman went to Carolina after the Bills cut him and he and he played RG the entire season for them. It still remains to be seen if Rinehart even makes next years roster as a back up.

 

Lee Evans was a talented WR for the Bills, and a first round pick that could run any route or he wouldn't have ever been a first round pick. With 4.39 speed at the combine its no wonder why the guy is rated as a deep threat WR. He didn't "fit" into Chan Gaileys offense because Fitz doesn't have the time in the pocket to get him the deep ball. The Bills didn't trade away Lee Evans because of his limitations, they traded him because of the limitations of this Bills offense under Gailey. Yea, he would have been the #2 WR on the team to Johnson so that is the main reason why they traded him.

 

Still,. the team could have certainly used him on offense this year with all the 4-5 WR sets the Bills play caller utilized (578 passing attempts) Back up #3 QB Brad Smith is currently listed as the #2 WR over David Nelson on the Bills website....how lame is that. Probably because Brad Smith made 3.750.000 last year

 

 

To the point of this thread, the Bills are probably offering Johnson what the 18th best WR should make in the NFL maybe 5-6 mill total. He probably wants more.... so judging from past history of this team concerning money...

[8-8 Forever?]

Both sides in a negotiation have cards to play and time is a very valuable one. If it is "Fact" that the two sides aren't close 'im not at all surprised or worried.

 

ex. Stevie's camp can use that card by saying "we want this or we will join the pool of FA's on Mar 15". The Bills should come back and say "he's not worth that because "X". "Will you take this? If you guys want to test the market go ahead but be advised that it is saturated with receiving talent"

 

 

I have a feeling that Stevie/Agent aren't offering a discount to the Bills. In fact my guess is that they want more money for him to stay with the Bills. Stevie's demeanor throughout this process has been passive in my opinion.

 

Once FA hits and he sees other places, he is as good as gone. They should have signed him 6 months ago.

[NoSaint]

I was browsing other fan fourms today and the sense out there is that ANY of those teams fan base would take SJ in a heartbeat. I'd say 75% would of course there are some that don't want him comparing him to TO and Moss cancers, but they simply don't know much about how great of a character guy SJ really is.

 

 

Tim-

 

Since when? Are we talking riding with ML on hit n runs? Tweeting his junk to a girl while married with child at home? Racking up the fines and penalties? Or just a few sound bites where he said he like buffalo?

 

Again - I say sign him but lets be straight about the situation

[Ramius]

Since when? Are we talking riding with ML on hit n runs? Tweeting his junk to a girl while married with child at home? Racking up the fines and penalties? Or just a few sound bites where he said he like buffalo?

 

Again - I say sign him but lets be straight about the situation

 

Stevie didn't tweet his junk, but keep on perpetuating a lie if it makes you feel better.

[NoSaint]

Stevie didn't tweet his junk, but keep on perpetuating a lie if it makes you feel better.

 

Back in dec of 2010? Are we going with the standard issue "I was hacked" excuse or is there something I missed?

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Just saw Jerry Rice on Nfl32 ...As a sports analyst I lost respect for him

 

When asked who is highest risk free agent at wr he said its Stevie johnson....because of the bonehead plays ....fair enough .....

 

Jerry Rice said it best.

 

Great news about the non-franchising Stevie Johnson... let some other team take a high risk and overpay.

 

Finally, at long last, we're building towards something positive instead of holding onto dead wood or expensive plastic.

[ieatcrayonz]

Jerry Rice said it best.

 

Great news about the non-franchising Stevie Johnson... let some other team take a high risk and overpay.

 

Finally, at long last, we're building towards something positive instead of holding onto dead wood or expensive plastic.

A team with no receivers is something positive?

[Wayne Cubed]

Buffalo Ramblings, not the best source sometimes, made a good point about where some of this money could come from for Johnsons contract by dumping some players currently on the Bills.

 

Terrence McGee $3.6 million in 2012; $4.6 million in 2013

Dwan Edwards $3.8 million in 2012; $3.65 million in 2013

 

Thats $7.4 million for 2012 and 8.25 million for 2013. Take the average of that and you have roughly 7.8 per year for the next 2 seasons. Obviously he isn't asking for a 2 year contract, but that at least secures some of the money need for his contract. It also could put his contract in the 15 million guaranteed category.

 

McGee hasn't played up to his money because of the injuries and Edwards will be the odd man out in the new 4-3 scheme. Its an interesting point. We could also look to the late rounds of the draft for CB and DL depth. That is where McGee came from.