DrDawkinstein Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 so kelly and marino have IQs around 95. sounds about right, if not a little high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzer32 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Anyone know what Nick Fairley got? Anyone ever heard him in an interview? He makes McGahee sound like a genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 The wonderlic is overrated So are brains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) so kelly and marino have IQs around 95. A standard deviation of iq is 10(?) points. So 90 would be the rough translation? Again, a guide not a rule... Depending on their prep and seriousness about the test, and some luck their "true scores" could be higher or lower. Just a single sampling doesn't tell everything Shouldn't be any comparisons between them anyway. NOT the same player/leader. And the wonderlic is pretty meaningless anyway. High scores don't mean a QB will be successful any more than a lower score indicates that they won't be. Vince Young got a 9, has maturity issues, not a great leader and STILL has a winning record as a starting QB in the NFL. Fitz scored 48 and doesn't have a winning record as a starter on any team he's been on. Chad Pennington scored 25? He was a finalist for the Rhodes Scholarship. Wonderlic is a bunch of random information. Change the info and people who didn't do as well could do better or vice versa. To say it's meaningless is as short sighted as saying it's an absolute 100% predictor. I'd go out on a limb and say there is some correlation just not a huge one, especially through the meaty part of the curve... I'd guess at the far ends it's a much stronger correlation but likely still not terribly significant. No one is suggesting there's one obvious predictor, or else the draft would be reaallly easy Edited March 18, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Can I just say that I said Locker was a mouth-breathing yokel months ago, based on his barely coherent ramblings in interviews and got bashed. Now the 20 "mouth-breathing yokel" wonderlic is out. Apologies? I knew I liked Gabbert's interviews for a reason. Draft Gabbert. We would have a 99+ QB rotation, assuming Levi Brown's wonderlic is over 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Cam's score means he has the ability to learn the complexities of a playbook, read complex defenses and process that into action. It means if he dedicates himself tot he game he has the ability to succeed from a mental standpoint. It also means those who believe that a black QB is not able grasp the complexities of the NFL game are what they are, racists. Huh? I thought he scored a 21? That's not an impressive score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Perfect score is 50. McElroy and Gabbart both had very good scores. No prospect listed had a "poor" score which would be single digits. Anything in the 20s or more is decent. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/wonderlic-scores-of-2010-nfl-starting-quarterbacks-and-339905.html looks like we should pick Locker based on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Standardized cognitive instruments are re-normed periodically because, essentially, the nature of the population by which the test was previously normed has changed to some degree. A person's performance on a cognitive test, such as the Wonderlic, is compared to the performance of the normative sample (thousands of people who take the test prior to it being published). As a general trend, longitudinal research demonstrates that IQ scores have risen over time. As theorized, this phenomenon is due to multiple contributing factors (i.e., education, health care, nutrition, etc...). So, a Wonderlic score of 20 does mean the same thing as a Wonderlic score of 20 fifteen years ago. It means that you attained an average score, as compared to the normative sample. Players such as Losman and Vince Young are able to improve their scores dramatically due to practice effects. Essentially, when the test is re-administered, they are better able to respond to the nature of the tasks presented to them. Quite possibly, their improved score is more representative of their actual aptitude in a given area (in this case fluid reasoning abilities). In other words, we are not interested in what these players know, but rather, how quickly and efficiently they can process information. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I hope Calolina takes Gabbert, then Denver will take either Fairley or Dareus, which would leave a lot of great options for Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 http://twitter.com/m...375070418157568 Mallett did better than a lot of people gave him credit for. Ponder did well. He's still my guy with our 2nd round pick. For me the big thing here is Locker's stock should go down, Newton's will likely remain unchanged and gabbert has another feather in his cap. Smart QB's tend to over acheive W.R.T. their athletic ability ( a la Fitz). For those comparing netwon to Russell, Jamarcus' was reported as a 24... I watched Ponder's pro day and thought "Wow, Trent Edwards Jr". And now I find out Trent scored a 34 on his wonderlic, yet could never grasp the offense or the ability to see the play unfold in his mind and throw the ball to a spot. You can keep your "2nd tier" prospects. Theyre "2nd tier" for a reason. I don't believe you know this. All coaching commentary suggested TE was a practice and film room standout which is why he kept getting promoted to starter. He just paniced in the face of a pass rush. That is not an IQ issue, it's mental toughness and confidence. The fact that you can improve your score by actually learning strategy and such isn't a knock in the test, it's a knock on those guys for being unprepared/unfocused. Also with a test that short, knowing 2-3 extra questions and getting 2-3 guesses can swing a score a lot as well. The SAT reset was because the early 90s saw many underachieving schools implement the test as a benchmark, and it brought the average score down so they had to pull that 50th percentile back to 500. To my knowledge the wonderlic didn't see that influx. It's generally held it's demographics steady. All that said, I'm basically saying unless you are an extreme outlier (say under 15ish or over 30/35ish, I don't think it says a lot. It's like a RB being clocked at 4.4 vs 4.45 - marginal difference even if it's not based on track conditions, slight misstep etc (lucky guesses or content) it's the 4.25 and 4.6 that really can help or hurt and likely say something at the next level. Cams score doesn't put him in the wow factor either way. His "true" value could be high teens or mid 20s honestly, and much like the 40 not being football speed, this isn't football processing under a pass rush... Just part of the package to take into account. Exactly. Brett Farve is clearly not so bright off of the football field but since it's all he knows, eats breaths and sleeps, he managed to succeed on the field. It is like everything one of the measurablles relied upon t make decisions, just like college admission and hiring decisions are made. You take all the info together and try to make the best decision you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFreddy22 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The wonderlic scores don't mean anything I wouldn't put any stock into it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Sorry, let me clarify. I don't think the Wonderlic makes or breaks anyone. But for the fans that aren't sitting in these interviews and doing background checks (ugh), it's one of our windows into the process. A QB who scores a 9 on a Wonderlic probably isn't giving the most compelling interviews and thus probably isn't thought of as highly as someone who scores in the 40s. At least that's the assumption I'm making. It's all a guess though. No one but the people doing the work really know how highly a guy is thought of. But I'd assume with his physical talent and a decent Wonderlic, Cam is probably doing pretty well during the interviews (breaking down football stuff) and thus is probably a legit possibility for Carolina. The wonderlic is similar to the combine in that it is just simply supplemental information. Impressions of players should be made from play and tape, with supplemental information serving to verify certain impressions. Having said that, it's nice to see that Newton isn't virtually retarded (Vince Young). While a 21 isn't a great score, it shows that his brain more or less works under the gun. Vince Young scored a 6, and anytime the slightest bit of mental pressure has been applied to him he cracks. The test seems to have at least a little value. Although Manning scored in the 20's I believe, and he is considered one of the smartest QB's in the league (Football smarts anyway). Exactly. Brett Farve is clearly not so bright off of the football field but since it's all he knows, eats breaths and sleeps, he managed to succeed on the field. It is like everything one of the measurablles relied upon t make decisions, just like college admission and hiring decisions are made. You take all the info together and try to make the best decision you can. I don't think Farve is the greatest example. He had one of the strongest arms in FB history, combined with decent mobility, and unmatched durability. He didn't win games with "smarts", just raw ability. Don't forget, this guy also holds the league int record, which probably will never be broken (maybe with 18 game seasons). For all his touchdowns, hes also thrown many passes right to the other team that make you say "WTF?". Edited March 18, 2011 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Is 21 a good score for a QB? I thought QBs should score in the high 20s at least. Jim Kelly and Dan Marino both scored a 15. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 That's how I feel about these "pro day" things. You've got film of however many games, yet I'm always hearing how this guy or that guy looked AMAZING at their pro day. So because someone looks good throwing the football to receivers they are familiar with, with no pass rush, with the receivers completely uncovered, all of a sudden you want to move them higher on the draft board? I don't get it. What matters most is what they have done on the field during live action, particularly in big games. All these crazy things that happen in February and March that makes people think players are completely different than they were before is asinine. I believe they have to use more than film when a guy is from a small school in a Non-Major conference. The competition is different. If a guy impresses on film, there's no way you'll be able to tell how he'll do vs NFL competition. A player from the SEC that excels would most likely excel at the NFL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Shouldn't be any comparisons between them anyway. NOT the same player/leader. And the wonderlic is pretty meaningless anyway. High scores don't mean a QB will be successful any more than a lower score indicates that they won't be. Vince Young got a 9, has maturity issues, not a great leader and STILL has a winning record as a starting QB in the NFL. Fitz scored 48 and doesn't have a winning record as a starter on any team he's been on. Chad Pennington scored 25? He was a finalist for the Rhodes Scholarship. Wonderlic is a bunch of random information. Change the info and people who didn't do as well could do better or vice versa. Um, they are both black qbs thus they are exactly the same. Pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I watched Ponder's pro day and thought "Wow, Trent Edwards Jr". And now I find out Trent scored a 34 on his wonderlic, yet could never grasp the offense or the ability to see the play unfold in his mind and throw the ball to a spot. You can keep your "2nd tier" prospects. Theyre "2nd tier" for a reason. Trent Edwards Jr my ass. Ponder is about as far from a scaredy cat vag as you can get. If anything, he needs to learn when to say when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 LSU CB Patrick Peterson and UGA WR AJ Green, both scored very low on the wonderlic. "Peterson plays like a low test guy" is one scout's assessment. Yahoo Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 LSU CB Patrick Peterson and UGA WR AJ Green, both scored very low on the wonderlic. "Peterson plays like a low test guy" is one scout's assessment. Yahoo Article Maybe with a scout on record people might believe me. I've been saying all week... And offseason... Peterson is making plays cause he's fast not cause hes bright. The thing is he is athletic enough that if you throw at him 10 times, even though he might give up 7-9 catches, he's likely to get a pick 6. He's not a technician or student of the game. He has a lot of wasted motion, bites on double moves, is easily looked out of zones by qbs... But even when he screws up he can recover (at the college level) and when he guesses right, it's 7... As a pro I think he will be good but I'm talking cromartie good not Deion good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) LSU CB Patrick Peterson and UGA WR AJ Green, both scored very low on the wonderlic. "Peterson plays like a low test guy" is one scout's assessment. Yahoo Article That sucks, both of my guys. Im especially surprised at Green given how well he comes across in interviews. Edited March 19, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Anyone notice how well Gabbert did....... Not saying he is the pick or that I want him to be. Just saying he scored pretty high..... About Gabbert. Nice guy I'm sure, talented, give him credit for "wanting it" He's just so....PACKAGED. Access to the highest quality sports trainers and QB coaches since HS. I'm sure he was carefully prepped and coached for his interview. He may well have done Wonderlic prep like kids in his socioeconomic bracket prep for SATs and MCATs and GREs. Not trying to make a negative out of a positive. It IS a positive to "invest in oneself" and work hard to improve, and to have family and mentors who support one's goals and help make the right kind of resources available -- it's priceless. It does kind of make it hard to assess from the fan's perspective: if Gabbert looks like a gem, how much is the setting and how much is the stone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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