Thanks Leonidas

[uncle flap]

How is the page "flooded with this crap"?

 

ESPN.com's "Follow the NFL on Twitter" function is in a small window, shows three tweets at a time and you need to hit "page down" twice to get to it.

 

It looks to me like you're going out of your way to find a reason to get upset.

 

As for me, I refuse to go out of my way for aggravation. That's why this will be my last post here. If you want to take shots at my employer, my friends, my coworkers and my profession, feel free to carry on and tell them to"STFU" (classy) without my involvement.

 

Thanks for including me on Two Bills Drive for as long as you did.

 

 

Congrats, folks. You finally did it. Thanks for lasting as long as you did, Tim.

 

And with that, I think we're done here.

 

 

I can't say I'm terribly surprised, but I am extremely disappointed. We've been warned and now this is what it's come to?

 

Thanks Tim (if you ever bother to check the board again), I and many others really appreciate all your insight and you will certainly be missed.

[stuckincincy]

Thanks Tim (if you ever bother to check the board again), I and many others really appreciate all your insight and you will certainly be missed.

 

Seconded.

[BillsGuyInMalta]

Man, I seriously hope this isn't Tim's last visit here.

[Alphadawg7]

Tim, you will be missed and thanks for actually taking the time to contribute to the rest of us who appreciated the insight and conversation you provided...

[dfwbillsfan]

I can't say I'm terribly surprised, but I am extremely disappointed. We've been warned and now this is what it's come to?

 

Thanks Tim (if you ever bother to check the board again), I and many others really appreciate all your insight and you will certainly be missed.

 

Could someone give me some background on what he's talking about? Is Tim Graham not posting here anymore?

[metzelaars_lives]

Just to play devil's advocate for a second- did a professional sportswriter really expect to come on a fan website and not have ONE person act the fool? Sounds to me like he's a little bit of a "delicate genius." God forbid we disturb the "delicate genius!" Like Lori said, it was bound to happen at some point. P.S. Didn't he say that he was making his last post like three months ago?

[ndirish1978]

Can we ban that moron for screwing up a good thing? Tim's opinions are one of the main things that brought me back to this site after a lengthy layoff. He will be missed. The incoherent ramblings of a buffoon on the other hand, will not.

[BillsGuyInMalta]

Next thing you know we'll run John Wawrow out of here for some equally idiotic reason.

 

What a cheery bunch of Bills fans some of us are.

[eball]

I don't know why any self-respecting authority would waste his or her time on a fan message board to begin with. For all of the knowledgeable and respectful people around here, there are 10x as many buffoons. I certainly wouldn't want to deal with them.

 

Less than 10% of what you find on TSW is actually useful or thought-provoking. A small portion is good humor. The rest is asinine.

 

Thanks for the insight while you were around, Tim.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Just to play devil's advocate for a second- did a professional sportswriter really expect to come on a fan website and not have ONE person act the fool? Sounds to me like he's a little bit of a "delicate genius." God forbid we disturb the "delicate genius!" Like Lori said, it was bound to happen at some point. P.S. Didn't he say that he was making his last post like three months ago?

 

I agree. Par for the course.

 

I will say that reading the exchange, I didn't think Leonidas went all that much overboard, and his overall point is well-taken (as was TG's rejoinder of: "don't click on that stuff if you don't like it.")

[CountDorkula]

I can't say I'm terribly surprised, but I am extremely disappointed. We've been warned and now this is what it's come to?

 

Thanks Tim (if you ever bother to check the board again), I and many others really appreciate all your insight and you will certainly be missed.

 

^This, though i never posted in the Grahm thread i enjoyed reading his insight.

 

Seconded.

 

Thirded, fourth-ded, and fifth-ded

 

Just to play devil's advocate for a second- did a professional sportswriter really expect to come on a fan website and not have ONE person act the fool? Sounds to me like he's a little bit of a "delicate genius." God forbid we disturb the "delicate genius!" Like Lori said, it was bound to happen at some point. P.S. Didn't he say that he was making his last post like three months ago?

 

Yes, but he is a professional and is taking his time to come talk to the fans here. The least we could do is show a little resopect for the guy; but I guess that is to much to ask.

 

 

Add: Lori- I would like to thank you for all that you put up with, that goes for all the higher ups at TBD. Thanks to all for providing this site for us to vent and discuss Bills football, and i apologize for some of the stupidity of others.

[metzelaars_lives]

I agree. Par for the course.

 

I will say that reading the exchange, I didn't think Leonidas went all that much overboard, and his overall point is well-taken (as was TG's rejoinder of: "don't click on that stuff if you don't like it.")

 

Agreed! I just went on that thread and I thought his post was hysterical and dead on.

[metzelaars_lives]

Besides, we still have Nevergiveup anyway.

[damj]

Next thing you know we'll run John Wawrow out of here for some equally idiotic reason.

Well ... we did run SKOOBY out of here.

 

Oh wait ... that was a good thing.

 

Nevermind

[Cornerville]

Agreed! I just went on that thread and I thought his post was hysterical and dead on.

 

 

Wow, we found Leonidas's alternate screename

[Lori]

I agree. Par for the course.

 

I will say that reading the exchange, I didn't think Leonidas went all that much overboard, and his overall point is well-taken (as was TG's rejoinder of: "don't click on that stuff if you don't like it.")

Why SHOULD Tim have had to defend the entire ESPN platform? He's not the one in charge of it.

 

He said a while back that visiting the site was becoming less and less enjoyable, and when it stopped being fun, he was done. He's not the only one: have you guys ever stopped to ask yourselves why the crew from WGR faded away? Because (as one of them told me), every time one of them posted, it devolved into a let's-bash-Schopp thread, and they eventually got sick of it.

 

So, I'll repeat myself: nice job.

 

And don't be surprised if I start spending a lot less time here, too.

Add: Hell, maybe some of you will applaud that as well.

[MarkAF43]

Agreed! I just went on that thread and I thought his post was hysterical and dead on.

 

 

Totally disagree, even if the post were dead on, why not register a complaint with ESPN? Is someone really dumb enough to believe that a writer who is paid by an employer is going to go onto a forum and bash their employer or a co-worker that he clearly stated is a friend and in his opinion a good writer. To expect Tim to do that is as idiotic as they come, but on this board, it has become the norm. Tim has taken time out to come here and post and provide insight we may not have access to otherwise, but because someone doesn't like the website or a writer, he attacks the guy who comes here as a favor..... Totally ridiculous, but I expected it from some of the people here.

 

 

John, its been nice knowing you, I'm sure some of the posters here already have you in their cross hairs.....

[CountDorkula]

Totally disagree, even if the post were dead on, why not register a complaint with ESPN? Is someone really dumb enough to believe that a writer who is paid by an employer is going to go onto a forum and bash their employer or a co-worker that he clearly stated is a friend and in his opinion a good writer. To expect Tim to do that is as idiotic as they come, but on this board, it has become the norm. Tim has taken time out to come here and post and provide insight we may not have access to otherwise, but because someone doesn't like the website or a writer, he attacks the guy who comes here as a favor..... Totally ridiculous, but I expected it from some of the people here.

 

 

John, its been nice knowing you, I'm sure some of the posters here already have you in their cross hairs.....

 

^^^This

 

This board though it has grown has fallen a little bit with some of the idiotic posts & posters that have stumbled onto this board.

[Lurker]

I will say that reading the exchange, I didn't think Leonidas went all that much overboard, and his overall point is well-taken (as was TG's rejoinder of: "don't click on that stuff if you don't like it.")

The response seems a bit overdone, IMO, based on the "typical day at TSW" post that set things in motion.

 

Que Sera, Sera...

[DC Tom]

And don't be surprised if I start spending a lot less time here, too.

 

You're coming over to PPP?

 

For a good number of years now, the board has been less about sharing information than it has giving a soapbox to children who want nothing more than to "listen to themselves talk", so to speak. The board's had such an influx of downright narcissistic children that the signal-to-noise ratio has gotten really bad, to the point where mature discussion is all but impossible, and hasn't been very enjoyable for quite some time.

 

Personally, I don't blame Tim for leaving (though I might criticize him for making a small production out of it - if the board's not worth coming back to, it's not worth explaining why you're not coming back). Too many self-important fools around these parts.

 

 

 

 

(And y'all can spare me the observation about the irony - there isn't any. I'm not self-important, I merely ACT self-important.)

[Green Lightning]

TG comes on this board, not under some alias, and traffics with fans on his own time. Some punk, hiding behind a alias screws up a good thing for all of us. I say ban him from the page. If you don't agree with an opinion, fine. do so with some class and act responsibly. I'm sick of all the punks swearing and intimidating others because they can do so in anonymity.

 

Maybe they do it because that's the only way they can feel good about themselves.....what's the matter Leonidas, was somebody mean to you as a little kid and now you have to work out your demons on TSW?

 

Hey Tim, you have a ton of support on the wall. Don't let a coward punk keep you from posting again.

[Lurker]

For a good number of years now, the board has been less about sharing information than it has giving a soapbox to children who want nothing more than to "listen to themselves talk", so to speak.

Yep, that sound like PPP to me...

[Coach Tuesday]

I don't think Tim is being over-sensitive. He's already putting himself in a somewhat difficult position by posting here for free while employed by ESPN to basically do the same thing. So it only compounds the problem when his employer gets attacked on this forum (whether or not the attack is justified), especially in the very same thread that Tim is involved in. I don't really blame him. He was offering us a free service and we chased him away.

 

Note, I do think it's somewhat different with respect to the local sportswriters who post here from time to time. If you act like a regular poster (start threads, add your opinions and insights, etc.), you wade into the forray and you're fair game like everyone else here.

 

But that's not what happened with Tim. As I said, he was providing a service on his off-time, and he was forced to start defending his employer for God knows what stupid reason.

[BucksNBills]

I thought Leonidas' spew was near genius and if bringing to light the interminable reporting and monopolistic tendencies of Tim's employer is what drove him away, then good riddance. Don't be so sensitive, and have the ability to separate yourself from your network on boards like this.

 

 

That being said, maybe it wasn't a good idea to preach this on a Tim Graham answer forum.

[DC Tom]

I will say that reading the exchange, I didn't think Leonidas went all that much overboard, and his overall point is well-taken (as was TG's rejoinder of: "don't click on that stuff if you don't like it.")

 

I think he went overboard in directing his complaints about ESPN content at Tim.

 

And I disagree with Tim's response to it: Leonidas' post didn't deserve to be taken NEARLY as seriously as Tim took it. It should have been ignored, as it's not Tim's responsibility to field complaints about ESPN content.

 

But Leonidas was out of line with his post. It was relatively inoccuous, I thought, but completely (and offensively) out of place. It had all the politeness and maturity of a fart in an elevator.

[CountDorkula]

I agree. Par for the course.

 

I will say that reading the exchange, I didn't think Leonidas went all that much overboard, and his overall point is well-taken (as was TG's rejoinder of: "don't click on that stuff if you don't like it.")

 

 

Except the Thread was devoted to asking Tim questions, and i bet the last thing he expected was to see was a post bashing one of his best friends, his company and pretty much him. It was not Tims job to open that thread but did it on the basis of going out of his way to interact with fans.

[DC Tom]

Yep, that sound like PPP to me...

 

Hey, we had a good discussion there last month! I think we may have had as many as two last year.

 

Beats discussing Gilbram FitzBrohmWards for the umpteen-millionth time, at least.

[MarkAF43]

I thought Leonidas' spew was near genius and if bringing to light the interminable reporting and monopolistic tendencies of Tim's employer is what drove him away, then good riddance. Don't be so sensitive, and have the ability to separate yourself from your network on boards like this.

 

 

Are you really that thick headed??? Tim cannot come onto this board and separate his network from himself. Anything he posts is fair game for viewing and people will look and say wow, TG said this, he works for ESPN, that must be what ESPN thinks.

 

This is the idiotic nature that has dropped the intelligence of this board to insanely low levels

[Coach Tuesday]

Just a suggestion, perhaps Tim would eventually return under an enhanced-moderated thread, where questions get pre-screened. Lori & Co., I don't know whether you'd want to take that on (and I agree that you shouldn't have to, but it is what it is). Just a thought.

[DC Tom]

Are you really that thick headed??? Tim cannot come onto this board and separate his network from himself. Anything he posts is fair game for viewing and people will look and say wow, TG said this, he works for ESPN, that must be what ESPN thinks.

 

This is the idiotic nature that has dropped the intelligence of this board to insanely low levels

 

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1849143

 

Re: the discussion about the "fourth wall"

[metzelaars_lives]

Are you really that thick headed??? Tim cannot come onto this board and separate his network from himself. Anything he posts is fair game for viewing and people will look and say wow, TG said this, he works for ESPN, that must be what ESPN thinks.

 

This is the idiotic nature that has dropped the intelligence of this board to insanely low levels

 

I interpreted the guy's post to be more of a commentary on the state of sports reporting using this twitter thing as an actual news source and not as much a personal attack. I think the whole twitter phenomenon is childish and I can't believe that grown men reference it in their reporting.

[DC Tom]

I interpreted the guy's post to be more of a commentary on the state of sports reporting using this twitter thing as an actual news source and not as much a personal attack. I think the whole twitter phenomenon is childish and I can't believe that grown men refernce it in their reporting.

 

Grown men? We still talking about reporters?

 

 

[Green Lightning]

I thought Leonidas' spew was near genius and if bringing to light the interminable reporting and monopolistic tendencies of Tim's employer is what drove him away, then good riddance. Don't be so sensitive, and have the ability to separate yourself from your network on boards like this.

 

 

That being said, maybe it wasn't a good idea to preach this on a Tim Graham answer forum.

 

 

Then go start you own page with your buddy and p*ss all day on eveyone else. The guy was out of line and you seem to enjoy that. Maybe you and your bud Leonidas can include the "Complete Works of Jerry Sullivan" on your new page to set the tone for your p*ss fest.

[DanInUticaTampa]

I think the whole twitter phenomenon is childish and I can't believe that grown men refernce it in their reporting.

 

Referencing what people are saying is "childish?"

 

So, yeah, if a player says on twitter "injury has healed. I can play the next game" it is childish to use that to explain that a player is going to be able to play the next game? Come on.....

 

His commentary was NOT on twitter (maybe as a subtopic). It was specifically on ESPN's main page being "flooded" with twitter stuff. And there isn't ANY twitter stuff on the main page. If you go to the nfl part, it is a small box towards the middle of the page and it is about the same size as advertisements. He was making it seem like twitter was plastered over all the articles and all over the page. And that is untrue. What he was complaining about was one little box and he made it seem like it was all over the main page. It just isn't true. I am not a huge fan of espn, but he was just wrong in saying this stuff was flooding the website.

[CountDorkula]

I interpreted the guy's post to be more of a commentary on the state of sports reporting using this twitter thing as an actual news source and not as much a personal attack. I think the whole twitter phenomenon is childish and I can't believe that grown men refernce it in their reporting.

 

It's called using resources to gain profit cheif. Twitter is one of the fastest growing social networking sites. ESPN is smart and using it to their full advantage. They can take a large amount of info and get it out quick ie: Player A traded to Team A for Player B. Then get the full article printed later. ESPN wants to be know for "Heard it here first" and they do a damn good job at it.

 

Whats childish is a grown man or preceived to be grown man(poster on TBD) attacking someone doing a favor to this board(TG) because he does not like twitter. Telling someone to tell one of their best friend to STFU and then going back and basically mocking him by saying "Guess thats a no" Whats more childish?

 

ESPN does a great job at providing information to sports fans just like me and you. Yea they may overkill things sometimes, but they are only doing their job.

[GG]

Perhaps Tim should enlist the same bartender as jw. Seems to work for the canuck on his visits here.

[DanInUticaTampa]

It's called using resources to gain profit cheif. Twitter is one of the fastest growing social networking sites. ESPN is smart and using it to their full advantage.

 

Just like every other successful company. Pretty much every major business and a lot of small businesses use this as a marketing and PR tool. Attacking ESPN for using it is just odd when everyone from mcdonalds, CNN, amazon, Sports Illustrated, Wall Street Journal, and everyone is using it to grow their businesses is using it as well.

[uncle flap]

I thought Leonidas' spew was near genius and if bringing to light the interminable reporting and monopolistic tendencies of Tim's employer is what drove him away, then good riddance. Don't be so sensitive, and have the ability to separate yourself from your network on boards like this.

 

That being said, maybe it wasn't a good idea to preach this on a Tim Graham answer forum.

 

I won't attack you for claiming that Leonidas's rant was near genius, only bc you realized that it didn't belong there. Too bad he didn't.

 

 

I interpreted the guy's post to be more of a commentary on the state of sports reporting using this twitter thing as an actual news source and not as much a personal attack. I think the whole twitter phenomenon is childish and I can't believe that grown men reference it in their reporting.

 

Why not start a thread on the state of sports reporting then?

And I use twitter for a variety of things - admittedly some of them "childish," but don't knock something you haven't tried or fail to understand. As a news aggregator, twitter is on par with anything else.

[MattyT]

I interpreted the guy's post to be more of a commentary on the state of sports reporting using this twitter thing as an actual news source and not as much a personal attack. I think the whole twitter phenomenon is childish and I can't believe that grown men reference it in their reporting.

An accurate fact is an accurate fact regardless of its source. The ease of Twitter has enabled people who are in a position to obtain accurate facts to share them with shlubs like us who would otherwise go without knowing. I appreciate that, even if I do have to occasionally hear about what that same person had on their hot dog that day.

[Lori]

I thought Leonidas' spew was near genius and if bringing to light the interminable reporting and monopolistic tendencies of Tim's employer is what drove him away, then good riddance. Don't be so sensitive, and have the ability to separate yourself from your network on boards like this.

 

That being said, maybe it wasn't a good idea to preach this on a Tim Graham answer forum.

Why? The people who kept crapping on him didn't seem to be able to.