Its Nice to Se Some Folks Just Proved Flat-Out Wrong

[GrudginglyPessimistic]

This is not a post about whether Edwards or particularly Davis are good players (I think it is pretty generally agreed Davis a great get for a Bills team moving to a 3-4 with a history of run stopping problems).

 

However, regardless of how one judges the quality of these players it is pretty clear that each of them had multiple visits and were in demand from other teams and that both of them chose to come to this small market rather than go elsewhere,

 

Those who made the claim that no FAs we wanted or that were in demand elsewhere would bother to come to little old Buffalo were simply wrong wrong and wrong.

 

Make no mistake this is a small market and it does take a hearty soul (the type of person we want actually) to come here to live in the cold rather than in the sunny climes of Houston or Jacksonville. We may even need to pay a little bit of a premium.

 

However, this does not matter to us the fans as this team is not in some cap hell causing us to lose out on bidding if Gailey makers good choices.

 

The key to this league is that money talks and those who simply just continue to bad mouth the Bills as being unable to compete for talent due to the market, the weather (and even the losing record which I think is actually the real player limiting factor for older vets looking for a championship before they retire) are simply wrong if they say we cannot compete for not everyone but a lot of talent that has a choice of destinations.

[Beerball]

However, this does not matter to us the fans as this team is not in some cap hell causing us to lose out on bidding if Gailey makers good choices.

 

 

 

The problems with this team result from an inability to choose talent, not vice versa.

[JustMaxx]

agreed

 

the fact that good free agent players like edwards and davis signed here means they believe in the coaches and the organization. edwards has been apart of the winning formula, he wouldn't go to a team unless he saw the same type of formula.

 

its not like we overpaid to get them here either, both had solid contracts, but not Dockery/L.Walker overpaid type contracts.

[stuckincincy]

This is not a post...

 

Maxwell's Silver Hammer, PG/FFS?

 

 

Go in peace my friend!

[John from Riverside]

I was suprised because it looked to me like they were going to rely soley on the draft to rebiuld the team.....

 

But then I was confused because we have not tried to move a player and aquire more picks.....not one

 

I like both moves

[dollars 2 donuts]

Maxwell's Silver Hammer, PG/FFS?

 

 

Go in peace my friend!

 

 

 

God, why did you write that, Stucky? Now I can't get that song out of my head.

 

 

 

...well, it is the Beatles, so I guess that's OK.

 

 

"Maxwell Edison, majoring in medicine..."

[Green Lightning]

Those who made the claim that no FAs we wanted or that were in demand elsewhere would bother to come to little old Buffalo were simply wrong wrong and wrong.

 

 

Don't hold your breath. Many on this board just have no life or will to live if they can't B word. They will find a new B word topic by tomorrow and be frantic and stupid about in no time.

[CarolinaBill]

I think more than anything most top tier FA's would want a little extra to come to buffalo, but guys like davis and edwards, who were both 2nd tier players dont have that type of leverage. I'm very happy and excited that we got both of them, good job by Nix and whaley to stick to his philosophy, and not overpay for overrated players

[Albany,n.y.]

Here's the thing with players, it's not all about the money. It really depends on their talent level & expectations when they hit free agency:

The lowest talent level free agents try to pick a team whose 53 man roster they can make.

The next level looks for a team they can get more playing time with.

The next level looks for a team they can start for.

Now once their at the level where they can start for anybody, it becomes a combination of location,money and winning. For the absolute elite, they'll get their money-it's about lifestyle & winning.

When it comes to lifestyle, there are plenty of players who don't want or need the big city atmosphere or a warm climate. For a small town kid, the last thing he might want is to play in NY. Likewise, some players might not want to play in warm southern cities like Miami, where their homes could get destroyed by a hurricane.

Everybody is different. Right now, the Bills cannot compete for most elite players because they haven't won in so long, the player doesn't think he can turn it around by himself. If you build a winner, they will come.

[IHFO]

idk if it really proves anything honestly..i like how people are quick to jump on a couple signings and say people who said it's not a destination FA's want to come to are wrong...sry it's still not nothing changed because a couple mid-tier FA signed...I'll admit i'm one of the people who have said it and I will continue to.

[C.Biscuit97]

idk if it really proves anything honestly..i like how people are quick to jump on a couple signings and say people who said it's not a destination FA's want to come to are wrong...sry it's still not nothing changed because a couple mid-tier FA signed...I'll admit i'm one of the people who have said it and I will continue to.

 

 

What FAs have the Bills wanted to get that flat out refused to come here? It's a short list.

[billsfreak]

This is not a post about whether Edwards or particularly Davis are good players (I think it is pretty generally agreed Davis a great get for a Bills team moving to a 3-4 with a history of run stopping problems).

 

However, regardless of how one judges the quality of these players it is pretty clear that each of them had multiple visits and were in demand from other teams and that both of them chose to come to this small market rather than go elsewhere,

 

Those who made the claim that no FAs we wanted or that were in demand elsewhere would bother to come to little old Buffalo were simply wrong wrong and wrong.

 

Make no mistake this is a small market and it does take a hearty soul (the type of person we want actually) to come here to live in the cold rather than in the sunny climes of Houston or Jacksonville. We may even need to pay a little bit of a premium.

 

However, this does not matter to us the fans as this team is not in some cap hell causing us to lose out on bidding if Gailey makers good choices.

 

The key to this league is that money talks and those who simply just continue to bad mouth the Bills as being unable to compete for talent due to the market, the weather (and even the losing record which I think is actually the real player limiting factor for older vets looking for a championship before they retire) are simply wrong if they say we cannot compete for not everyone but a lot of talent that has a choice of destinations.

Edwards would have signed with Denver or Seattle but their doctors wouldn't pass him on his physical. The Ravens even wanted him to have more medical treatment, otherwise they weren't interested either. Beggars can't be choosers.

[SuperKillerRobots]

This is not a post about whether Edwards or particularly Davis are good players (I think it is pretty generally agreed Davis a great get for a Bills team moving to a 3-4 with a history of run stopping problems).

 

However, regardless of how one judges the quality of these players it is pretty clear that each of them had multiple visits and were in demand from other teams and that both of them chose to come to this small market rather than go elsewhere,

 

Those who made the claim that no FAs we wanted or that were in demand elsewhere would bother to come to little old Buffalo were simply wrong wrong and wrong.

 

Make no mistake this is a small market and it does take a hearty soul (the type of person we want actually) to come here to live in the cold rather than in the sunny climes of Houston or Jacksonville. We may even need to pay a little bit of a premium.

 

However, this does not matter to us the fans as this team is not in some cap hell causing us to lose out on bidding if Gailey makers good choices.

 

The key to this league is that money talks and those who simply just continue to bad mouth the Bills as being unable to compete for talent due to the market, the weather (and even the losing record which I think is actually the real player limiting factor for older vets looking for a championship before they retire) are simply wrong if they say we cannot compete for not everyone but a lot of talent that has a choice of destinations.

 

I think you picked two terrible examples for this argument. Edwards failed two physicals and had an offer withdrawn from his original team, so the only team that offerred him a contract was the Bills. Davis, while he was considered a good player in Denver last year and probably would have made other visits, only made one - to the Bills.

 

I do think we have trouble attracting the top tier FAs, but not for the reasons most people say. It's simply because we aren't that good. Football players have enough money to live anywhere they want in the offseason and after they play. They can also take ridiculous vacations that none of us could afford. The ones that care about playing football and winning don't care about where they do it as long as they have that shot. The real reason that no one wants to come here is that we are not that good. Plain and simple. No one cares about the weather, nightlife, etc unless they are more interested in doing that stuff than playing and winning football games. The only other aspect that might come into to play is if they are very interested in a spotlight being placed on them and even that is debatable. Look at TO - he made out fine with his spotlight here and made it work in other places while he wasn't required to be in Buffalo.

[C.Biscuit97]

Here's the thing with players, it's not all about the money. It really depends on their talent level & expectations when they hit free agency:

The lowest talent level free agents try to pick a team whose 53 man roster they can make.

The next level looks for a team they can get more playing time with.

The next level looks for a team they can start for.

Now once their at the level where they can start for anybody, it becomes a combination of location,money and winning. For the absolute elite, they'll get their money-it's about lifestyle & winning.

When it comes to lifestyle, there are plenty of players who don't want or need the big city atmosphere or a warm climate. For a small town kid, the last thing he might want is to play in NY. Likewise, some players might not want to play in warm southern cities like Miami, where their homes could get destroyed by a hurricane.

Everybody is different. Right now, the Bills cannot compete for most elite players because they haven't won in so long, the player doesn't think he can turn it around by himself. If you build a winner, they will come.

 

 

Trust me, if I was fresh out of USC and a new millionaire, I won't be doing backflips over coming to Buffalo or Green Bay. At the same time with FAs, they are older and if being in city with a better nightlife is more important to them, then why do you want them in the first place?

 

The city of Buffalo has nothing to do with the Bills not winning. We just have been picking the wrong guys, especially at the QB position.

[sfbillsfan2]

I agree that getting quality FA's to Buffalo is not as bleak as some say but let's not kid ourselves about Edwards and Davis signing with Buffalo. Edwards failed physicals at his two other FA stops and Baltimore withdrew its offer so his options appear severly limited (I like the signing anyway and he is worth taking a risk on). Davis had a personal relationship with George Edwards which went a long way in getting him to come to Buffalo. The point of all of this is coming to Buffalo as a FA is not nearly as bad as some protray BUT it does take a little more to get them here than it does for other teams.

[papazoid]

What FAs have the Bills wanted to get that flat out refused to come here? It's a short list.

 

 

 

Gruden, Shanahan & Cowher............................lol

[BillnutinHouston]

Not to be contrary to the views above because I do NOT think that Buffalo is a pariah among free agents but.....out comes the news that Edwards failed physicals in Denver and Seattle. So it's not really accurate to say that Edwards CHOSE Buffalo over those two cities.

[C.Biscuit97]

Gruden, Shanahan & Cowher............................lol

 

True I guess but there were a lot of other factors that played into those decisions. They weren't flat out against Buffalo. LAck of a franchise QB and uncertainty about the franchise played bigger factors IMO.

[papazoid]

True I guess but there were a lot of other factors that played into those decisions. They weren't flat out against Buffalo. LAck of a franchise QB and uncertainty about the franchise played bigger factors IMO.

 

 

YEP...example: shanahan stated that because of the weather, his family pretty much refused to come.

[DanInUticaTampa]

I think more than anything most top tier FA's would want a little extra to come to buffalo, but guys like davis and edwards, who were both 2nd tier players dont have that type of leverage. I'm very happy and excited that we got both of them, good job by Nix and whaley to stick to his philosophy, and not overpay for overrated players

 

This is how I feel as well. Using 2nd tier guys to plug holes. They are affordable and usually perform well. The first tier guys are usually over-rated and never play as well as people want.

[papazoid]

Not to be contrary to the views above because I do NOT think that Buffalo is a pariah among free agents but.....out comes the news that Edwards failed physicals in Denver and Seattle. So it's not really accurate to say that Edwards CHOSE Buffalo over those two cities.

 

exactly...

[C.Biscuit97]

YEP...example: shanahan stated that because of the weather, his family pretty much refused to come.

 

And we had less some this winter than Washington. And if that was the main factor in MS' decision, he is a d-bag. Screw that orange, rat looking b@stard!

[C.Biscuit97]

Not to be contrary to the views above because I do NOT think that Buffalo is a pariah among free agents but.....out comes the news that Edwards failed physicals in Denver and Seattle. So it's not really accurate to say that Edwards CHOSE Buffalo over those two cities.

 

 

Well, he's hear now. And no one wanted to go to Green Bay before Reggie White. If we start winning, players will come. For god's sake, little Manning turned down beautiful San Diego because they were a mess at the time he was drafted.

[RyanC882]

I think more than anything most top tier FA's would want a little extra to come to buffalo, but guys like davis and edwards, who were both 2nd tier players dont have that type of leverage. I'm very happy and excited that we got both of them, good job by Nix and whaley to stick to his philosophy, and not overpay for overrated players

 

These two signings look like the type the Steelers generally make. Use FA to pick up very solid players who can be had for less than top dollar.

[HurlyBurly51]

Not to be contrary to the views above because I do NOT think that Buffalo is a pariah among free agents but.....out comes the news that Edwards failed physicals in Denver and Seattle. So it's not really accurate to say that Edwards CHOSE Buffalo over those two cities.

 

 

Well, he's hear now. And no one wanted to go to Green Bay before Reggie White. If we start winning, players will come. For god's sake, little Manning turned down beautiful San Diego because they were a mess at the time he was drafted.

 

Yes, he is here now, but I'm not sure what your point is, considering the post you quoted. All BillnutinHouston was pointing out in response to the OP is that Edwards did not in fact CHOOSE Buffalo, they chose him because he failed the physicals of the 2 other teams he visited, and his former team puller their offer. He essentially had no other options. Kinda shoots down the OP's notion that folks have been proven flat out wrong. He brought up some very poor examples to try to make his case.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

What FAs have the Bills wanted to get that flat out refused to come here? It's a short list.

the problem is that nobody except the Bills FO knows the answer to that question. it 'might' be a long, exhaustive list because you'll never know who turned them down for an in-person interview.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Not to be contrary to the views above because I do NOT think that Buffalo is a pariah among free agents but.....out comes the news that Edwards failed physicals in Denver and Seattle. So it's not really accurate to say that Edwards CHOSE Buffalo over those two cities.

what he said...

[C.Biscuit97]

Yes, he is here now, but I'm not sure what your point is, considering the post you quoted. All BillnutinHouston was pointing out in response to the OP is that Edwards did not in fact CHOOSE Buffalo, they chose him because he failed the physicals of the 2 other teams he visited, and his former team puller their offer. He essentially had no other options. Kinda shoots down the OP's notion that folks have been proven flat out wrong. He brought up some very poor examples to try to make his case.

 

 

The Ravens were trying to re-sign him.

[HurlyBurly51]

The Ravens were trying to re-sign him.

 

"Even the Baltimore Ravens, the team that drafted him in 2004, didn't make much of an effort to bring him back."

 

But that's not really the point being discussed.

[T master]

 

 

 

The problems with this team result from an inability to choose talent, not vice versa.

 

The last head coach sure didn't help any !!! Talk about a laid back approach !! I think this staff will get better production out of players that were here than the previous (HOE HUM) Head Coach !!

[purple haze]

YEP...example: shanahan stated that because of the weather, his family pretty much refused to come.

 

 

Eff him then. Weather is not that bad. People act like its the North Pole; and Shanahan is from the Chicago area. Their weather is no better than Buffalo in the winter time...

 

Anyway, does anyone catch how during the interviews Chris Brown does with potential FA's that they always seem to mention that old Bills players they know say good things about the city and fans? I don't think Buffalo itself has a thing to do with FA signings for the most part. It's about winning and money.

[ChanOverChin]

In this case, the Bills were able to acquire Davis becuase of his prior affiliation with DC G. Edwards. Otherwise, he probably wasn't going to play for Buffalo.

 

D. Edwards signed with the Bills because he really had no other options as it turns out. He was considered to be a top 10 FA in 2010, which is a very good get for the Bills. However, Edwards is also a very risky signing because of the serious neck injury that he suffered. Two other teams wouldn't touch him as a result. He had no offers. So why did the Bills feel like they had to ante up $18M to get him?????????

 

FA players don't want to come to Buffalo for a lot of reasons........the weather conditions, the cheap owner, the small market, the low profile status, the perception that the organization is in turmoil, the fact that the team has not made it to the playoffs in 10 years. The biggest reason right now is that the team just has not been very good. The perception is that the FO doesn't know what it's doing, the owner won't pay for top of the line coaches and players, and the owner meddles in the every day football decisions.

 

The Bills can't do much about having to play in poor weather or being a small market team, but they can change how they run their team, who they hire as coaches, who they draft, and who they sign. Unlike a lot of teams, the Bills absolutely MUST draft well year after year after year or they cannot hope to compete because they won't attract the FA players that they need to win at the most critical positions until they start to win again.

 

And they won't start to win again (i.e. make the playoffs) until they start to draft very well on a consistent basis.

[gobillsinytown]

Edwards would have signed with Denver or Seattle but their doctors wouldn't pass him on his physical. The Ravens even wanted him to have more medical treatment, otherwise they weren't interested either. Beggars can't be choosers.

 

Not necessarily. With a neck injury, some doctors tend to be more conservative than others. There are potential legal issues in allowing someone to play with a neck injury as well. I don't think he came here just because two other teams wouldn't sign him. There are a number of other teams looking for 3-4 linemen. I think this is the result of conflicting medical opinions, and I hope the Bills' doctors are right. If they're not, we might see another Keven Everett situation.

Which is exactly why I think the Bills' doctors are right. They wouldn't have cleared his signing if they thought there was a significant chance of injury.

[uforesircher]

God, why did you write that, Stucky? Now I can't get that song out of my head.

 

 

 

...well, it is the Beatles, so I guess that's OK.

 

 

"Maxwell Edison, majoring in medicine..."

 

. . . calls her on the phone: "Can I take you out to the pictures, Jo-o-o-oan?"

 

and a hearty helping of rats-butts to both of you for implanting the tune in my head as well -

 

and not just the tune - but now the recall of the referenced Maxwell Edison as a Doctor Who character

[SuperKillerRobots]

This is how I feel as well. Using 2nd tier guys to plug holes. They are affordable and usually perform well. The first tier guys are usually over-rated and never play as well as people want.

 

This is exactly right.

[SuperKillerRobots]

Not necessarily. With a neck injury, some doctors tend to be more conservative than others. There are potential legal issues in allowing someone to play with a neck injury as well. I don't think he came here just because two other teams wouldn't sign him. There are a number of other teams looking for 3-4 linemen. I think this is the result of conflicting medical opinions, and I hope the Bills' doctors are right. If they're not, we might see another Keven Everett situation.

Which is exactly why I think the Bills' doctors are right. They wouldn't have cleared his signing if they thought there was a significant chance of injury.

 

Our team doctor is also one of the most well-respected spinal injury doctors in the medical community across the country. If he cleared this guy to play, I would take his word over any other team doctor.