TC in St. Louis Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I used to go to the Bills Backers group here in St. Louis. But the team is playing so pathetic, even when they win it is ugly. The offense makes me sick. As long as Jauron is in charge, it will be difficult for me to do anything except read about them and follow the highlights. It's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve O Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I used to go to the Bills Backers group here in St. Louis. But the team is playing so pathetic, even when they win it is ugly. The offense makes me sick. As long as Jauron is in charge, it will be difficult for me to do anything except read about them and follow the highlights. It's embarrassing. as a season ticket holder I have decided not to let the game ruin the game day experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthICE Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 As long as ralph owns the team they will suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 As long as ralph owns the team they will suck Funny they didn't suck in the 90's winning 4 AFC Championships in a row when Ralph owned them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 There's nothing better than getting up nice and early Sunday morning, having a couple of cups of coffee, read the paper and then turn to my wife and say: "So, what are we doing today?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 There's nothing better than getting up nice and early Sunday morning, having a couple of cups of coffee, read the paper and then turn to my wife and say: "So, what are we doing today?" I think the Bills follow a similar approach to Sundays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Funny they didn't suck in the 90's winning 4 AFC Championships in a row when Ralph owned them. As long as Ralph doesn't have Chuck Knox, Marv Levy, Lou Saban coaching, or Jack Kemp, Joe Ferguson, Jim Kelly, Doug Flutie, Elbert Dubinion, Booker Edgerson, Cookie Gilchrist, Tom Sestak, Fred Smerlas, Joe Cribs, Thurman Thomas, James Loften, Andre Reed, Frank Lewis, Jerry Butler, Wil Wolford, House Ballard, and insert most starters from 63-68, 80-82, 88-93, 98-99, as well as Bill Polian... ...yes, we are going to suck. One more thing; he has to pop back into the Way-Back Machine with Mr. Peabody and knock about 30 years off his age, b/c I very much doubt a 91 year old can think dynamically enough in this day and age in the NFL. Sorry for the Ageism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Funny they didn't suck in the 90's winning 4 AFC Championships in a row when Ralph owned them. Only because of Bill Polian, who is currently the president of the Colts. How many playoff games have the Bills been to since Polian was fired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Sorry for the Ageism. Realism, you mean? If you'd said that about a 65 year old, I'd have taken umbrage, but a 91 year old CERTAINLY has lost marbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Nearly every short period of success that the Bills have had, has come by some sort of "dumb luck"...which Ralph could never manage to sustain. Polian was a great GM, most agree on that. But, the reason we were lucky enough to have him was that he was an unknown, who nobody else in the NFL would have hired at that time. Ralph took a bottom line approach on this hire, and struck gold. But, ultimately, he ruined this relationship. Polian was not saint, and from what we know, might have been a litte tough to get along with...but a good owner would know how to build a working relationship with someone like that, particularly when the results had been so amazing. Successful runs have always ended prematurely for the Bills... Marv Levy, the coach, was another hire that he got lucky with... nobody else would have hired Levy at the time, or at least, any team interested in changing its' fortunes. These two miserly hires, which ended up being great ones, were result of "dumb luck". The Bills have mostly taken the "dumb luck" approach to solving all of their woes.. they sign cast-offs, journeymen, or other teams high draft pick "busts", or inury riddled guys, and keep their fingers crossed that a perfect storm will happen, and something will pan out for them. It hasn't worked in many years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glass To The Arson Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I used to love the Bills. If they had a bad day - I had a bad day. Now I just don't care anymore what happens - this really sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRR Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I used to go to the Bills Backers group here in St. Louis. But the team is playing so pathetic, even when they win it is ugly. The offense makes me sick. As long as Jauron is in charge, it will be difficult for me to do anything except read about them and follow the highlights. It's embarrassing. I visited with you guys during the Miami game this year at Ozzie's. I was the guy visiting my sick grandmother in St. Louis, but currently live in Florida. Did I encounter you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I used to go to the Bills Backers group here in St. Louis. But the team is playing so pathetic, even when they win it is ugly. The offense makes me sick. As long as Jauron is in charge, it will be difficult for me to do anything except read about them and follow the highlights. It's embarrassing. Our Bills Backers group, here in Austin, has dropped from a about 35 on opening day, to about 7 the last few weeks... this past week, they were on regular tv here, against the Texans...normally I still would have gone to the bar to watch, but I stayed home and watched this time....sad... I think the camaraderie amongst fellow fans is the only morsel of enjoyment this team brings these days... even the last two wins were pretty bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glass To The Arson Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I think the Bills follow a similar approach to Sundays. amazing lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 As long as Ralph doesn't have Chuck Knox, Marv Levy, Lou Saban coaching, or Jack Kemp, Joe Ferguson, Jim Kelly, Doug Flutie, Elbert Dubinion, Booker Edgerson, Cookie Gilchrist, Tom Sestak, Fred Smerlas, Joe Cribs, Thurman Thomas, James Loften, Andre Reed, Frank Lewis, Jerry Butler, Wil Wolford, House Ballard, and insert most starters from 63-68, 80-82, 88-93, 98-99, as well as Bill Polian... ...yes, we are going to suck. One more thing; he has to pop back into the Way-Back Machine with Mr. Peabody and knock about 30 years off his age, b/c I very much doubt a 91 year old can think dynamically enough in this day and age in the NFL. Sorry for the Ageism. That's not what the poster said. He inferred it is all Ralph's fault. That was the only name mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Only because of Bill Polian, who is currently the president of the Colts. How many playoff games have the Bills been to since Polian was fired? Didn't Ralph own the team while Polian was here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 To the Ralph Wilson bashers in this thread: You do realize that without Ralph Wilson, you would be bitching about some team from a different city. Ralph has made mistakes.....what owner hasn't? The team is a mess right now and 91 or not, Ralph is painfully aware of that. Very few people agreed with keeping Jauron after last season and Ralph knows that too. Ralph does things his own way and fans don't always agree with those things when the team is not playing well. Barring a miracle, things will change after the season is over. For better or worse, no one can say. I've certainly done my fair share of Bills-bashing and reserve the right to continue to do so. But it's time to lay off Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 There's nothing better than getting up nice and early Sunday morning, having a couple of cups of coffee, read the paper and then turn to my wife and say: "So, what are we doing today?" I love it when Sundays start out that way. The Mrs. often comes up with a great way to start the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hb123 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Nearly every short period of success that the Bills have had, has come by some sort of "dumb luck"...which Ralph could never manage to sustain. Polian was a great GM, most agree on that. But, the reason we were lucky enough to have him was that he was an unknown, who nobody else in the NFL would have hired at that time. Ralph took a bottom line approach on this hire, and struck gold. But, ultimately, he ruined this relationship. Polian was not saint, and from what we know, might have been a litte tough to get along with...but a good owner would know how to build a working relationship with someone like that, particularly when the results had been so amazing. Successful runs have always ended prematurely for the Bills... Marv Levy, the coach, was another hire that he got lucky with... nobody else would have hired Levy at the time, or at least, any team interested in changing its' fortunes. These two miserly hires, which ended up being great ones, were result of "dumb luck". The Bills have mostly taken the "dumb luck" approach to solving all of their woes.. they sign cast-offs, journeymen, or other teams high draft pick "busts", or inury riddled guys, and keep their fingers crossed that a perfect storm will happen, and something will pan out for them. It hasn't worked in many years... And Levy greatly benefited from the very high draft picks we had (Smith, Kelly) and riding Polians coat tails.......I dont think marv was all that great of a coach. What he did do was hire very good assistants and let them do their jobs and keep all those players ego's in check. He was a good administrator of that staff. He was not a great x and o guy and he got out coached badly in SB 25. After his brief stint as gm I also don't think he was an astute talent evaluator either. Polian had to beg him to agree to the biscut trade. That move dramatically propelled the bills forward and took them to the next level and through the best years this team has ever had. Just about any coach with that group would have looked good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 And Levy greatly benefited from the very high draft picks we had (Smith, Kelly) and riding Polians coat tails.......I dont think marv was all that great of a coach. What he did do was hire very good assistants and let them do their jobs and keep all those players ego's in check. He was a good administrator of that staff. He was not a great x and o guy and he got out coached badly in SB 25. After his brief stint as gm I also don't think he was an astute talent evaluator either. Polian had to beg him to agree to the biscut trade. That move dramatically propelled the bills forward and took them to the next level and through the best years this team has ever had. Just about any coach with that group would have looked good. Marv was maybe not a great tactician, but the things you say he was good at, are what made him great. His ego was one that allowed him to hire good assistants, and let them coach. That is not something that happens all the time, in the NFL. I agree he was a lousy GM (I knew he would be at the time he was hired), but I don't think he was really all that involved in evaluating talent. How many teams, in all of sports, had all the talent that the Bills had in those years, and managed to do nothing? Sure, losing 4 Super Bowls sounds bad, but there are storied franchises in this league (Browns, Lions) who have never even made it to the big game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 How many teams, in all of sports, had all the talent that the Bills had in those years, and managed to do nothing? Sure, losing 4 Super Bowls sounds bad, but there are storied franchises in this league (Browns, Lions) who have never even made it to the big game. The old Browns are the Ravens... And the Ravens won the Super Bowl. So really it is just the Lions and Cardinals (oldest team in the league)... And the Cardinals finally made it last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Our Bills Backers group, here in Austin, has dropped from a about 35 on opening day, to about 7 the last few weeks... this past week, they were on regular tv here, against the Texans...normally I still would have gone to the bar to watch, but I stayed home and watched this time....sad... I think the camaraderie amongst fellow fans is the only morsel of enjoyment this team brings these days... even the last two wins were pretty bad... That is sad, Buftex. I watched the game at the local sports bar, and was the only one rooting for the Bills. The few Texan fans were condescendingly kind. Then I got a call from my son in Jax, FL. He, too, was the only guy at a sports bar wearing Bills garb. Kinda eerie, that Bills fans across the miles had to call long distance just to talk <quietly> about the team.. Bad times indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Funny they didn't suck in the 90's winning 4 AFC Championships in a row when Ralph owned them. Compare the rosters. No wait, there is no comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 That is sad, Buftex. I watched the game at the local sports bar, and was the only one rooting for the Bills. The few Texan fans were condescendingly kind. Then I got a call from my son in Jax, FL. He, too, was the only guy at a sports bar wearing Bills garb. Kinda eerie, that Bills fans across the miles had to call long distance just to talk <quietly> about the team.. Bad times indeed! first time all season I went to a bar to watch was sunday. The place had 2 projectors down and didn't have enough tv's for all the 1:00 games. Guess which one they didn't show? After watching bits of it at home on an internet stream, i decided they had made a wise choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 first time all season I went to a bar to watch was sunday. The place had 2 projectors down and didn't have enough tv's for all the 1:00 games. Guess which one they didn't show? After watching bits of it at home on an internet stream, i decided they had made a wise choice. Unless there are a lot of Bills fans, or the opposing teams fans, in attendance there is no reason to put a Bills game on a TV in any sports bar. The quality of play is horrid. I quote from one of the TV analysts (Marino?) going over the Bills first half highlights a few weeks ago "This game is just painful to watch." to the chuckles of the other analysts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_spikes Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I used to go to the Bills Backers group here in St. Louis. But the team is playing so pathetic, even when they win it is ugly. The offense makes me sick. As long as Jauron is in charge, it will be difficult for me to do anything except read about them and follow the highlights. It's embarrassing. Definitely agree. Here's the problem though: even if Jauron gets canned, which he should, his eventual replacement will be hired by none other than Wilson, the same guy who's kept Jauron around for continuity, so he says. Truth is, if the Bills had a board of directors, they would have run his(Wilson's) ass out decades ago for his legacy of mismanagement. I'm afraid we're indeed on the seacruise of mediocrity, to borrow Sully's words, until RW sells or croaks, whichever comes first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_spikes Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 As long as ralph owns the team they will suck Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_spikes Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Funny they didn't suck in the 90's winning 4 AFC Championships in a row when Ralph owned them. We drafted Kelly in '83 but didn't sign him til '86 because of that cheap bastard Wilson, and we might not have signed Kelly in '86 if Polian didn't talk Wilson into it, so spare us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills in va Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Funny they didn't suck in the 90's winning 4 AFC Championships in a row when Ralph owned them. They also lost 4 super bowls in a row. That a testimonial to the crap we put up with supporting this team. Besides, What have you done for me lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 To the Ralph Wilson bashers in this thread: You do realize that without Ralph Wilson, you would be bitching about some team from a different city. Ralph has made mistakes.....what owner hasn't? The team is a mess right now and 91 or not, Ralph is painfully aware of that. Very few people agreed with keeping Jauron after last season and Ralph knows that too. Ralph does things his own way and fans don't always agree with those things when the team is not playing well. Barring a miracle, things will change after the season is over. For better or worse, no one can say. I've certainly done my fair share of Bills-bashing and reserve the right to continue to do so. But it's time to lay off Ralph. You mean the same owner that has managed the team to a sub .500 record over 50 years? Or the same owner that runs quality GM's and coaches out of town? The same owner that has threatened the city his team plays in that he will move if tickets arent sold? The same owner that lets his pro bowl talent walk when they become free agents? The same owner that held on to a career losing coach after 3 straight 7-9 seasons? The same owner that has given 8 home games over 5 years to another country? The truth is the Bills .475 only have better winning %'s than the following teams. Im not quite sure I would count the Texans since they are still very new to the league and barely coming out of their expansion phase. Jets .452 Bengals .4.37 Texans .375 Lions .441 Saints .416 Falcons .413 Buccaneers .393 Cardinals .420 Ralph has held this city hostage with this team and as happy as I am that he has brought them here and kept them here he has consistantly put a bad product on the field. I go to every home game, and will continue to as long as there is a team here in Buffalo, I've gone to NFL drafts, and HOF inductions for this team. I bleed Bills blue and red. But I dont try and sugar coat what Ralph is and has been. Many would argue he even belongs in the HOF along with his beloved coach Marv Levy, who was really just an average coach and above average babysitter with tons of talent. He was obscenely outcoached in SB25 and couldnt keep his players from going out til 6am blowing coke and getting drunk in whatever town they were in at any particular time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills in va Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Funny they didn't suck in the 90's winning 4 AFC Championships in a row when Ralph owned them. They also lost 4 super bowls in a row. That a testimonial to the crap we put up with supporting this team. Besides, What have you done for me lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 The old Browns are the Ravens... And the Ravens won the Super Bowl. So really it is just the Lions and Cardinals (oldest team in the league)... And the Cardinals finally made it last year. No, the Browns are the Cleveland Browns, the Ravens are the Baltimore Ravens...I am sure any Cleveland Browns fan would agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 We drafted Kelly in '83 but didn't sign him til '86 because of that cheap bastard Wilson, and we might not have signed Kelly in '86 if Polian didn't talk Wilson into it, so spare us Kelly said he would rather work at McDonald's than play for the Bills. He went to the USFL Houston Gamblers and when that team folded he went to the NJ Generals. He only came back to the Bills because the USFL folded. Now everyone loves Kelly, but not a lot of people remember he thumbed his nose at the NFL and the Bills. The poster blamed Ralph and Ralph alone, which is ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 You mean the same owner that has managed the team to a sub .500 record over 50 years? Or the same owner that runs quality GM's and coaches out of town? The same owner that has threatened the city his team plays in that he will move if tickets arent sold? The same owner that lets his pro bowl talent walk when they become free agents? The same owner that held on to a career losing coach after 3 straight 7-9 seasons? The same owner that has given 8 home games over 5 years to another country? The truth is the Bills .475 only have better winning %'s than the following teams. Im not quite sure I would count the Texans since they are still very new to the league and barely coming out of their expansion phase. Jets .452 Bengals .4.37 Texans .375 Lions .441 Saints .416 Falcons .413 Buccaneers .393 Cardinals .420 Ralph has held this city hostage with this team and as happy as I am that he has brought them here and kept them here he has consistantly put a bad product on the field. I go to every home game, and will continue to as long as there is a team here in Buffalo, I've gone to NFL drafts, and HOF inductions for this team. I bleed Bills blue and red. But I dont try and sugar coat what Ralph is and has been. Many would argue he even belongs in the HOF along with his beloved coach Marv Levy, who was really just an average coach and above average babysitter with tons of talent. He was obscenely outcoached in SB25 and couldnt keep his players from going out til 6am blowing coke and getting drunk in whatever town they were in at any particular time. And the Pats stunk for years and then the 49ers stunk and the Bengals stunk and in the80s and 90's players were abusing all kinds of things. The current team is a wreck and has been for about a decade. Some of the blame falls on the owner, some doesn't. Nonetheless, we'd all be rooting for teams from some other city if not for Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_spikes Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Kelly said he would rather work at McDonald's than play for the Bills. He went to the USFL Houston Gamblers and when that team folded he went to the NJ Generals. He only came back to the Bills because the USFL folded. Now everyone loves Kelly, but not a lot of people remember he thumbed his nose at the NFL and the Bills. The poster blamed Ralph and Ralph alone, which is ignorant. I've been following this team since '65. I do blame RW. How far back do you want to go? He let Pete Gogolak go to the Giants rather than give him a raise. He allowed the Lamonica/ Glenn Bass trade for over-the-hill Tom Flores and Art Powell, who was a huge locker room cancer. He let Ron McDole go to the Redskins when he still had good servicable years left because of money. We could have signed Ted Hendricks but Wilson was too cheap. He let Ahmad Rashad go. This franchise has a legacy of bad decisions solely based on Wilson's pocketbook. The phony explanation of continuity being the reason for keeping Jauron post last season is but the latest example. We fans deserve better..., a better product, a better front office, a better coaching staff, and yes, a better owner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Kelly said he would rather work at McDonald's than play for the Bills. He went to the USFL Houston Gamblers and when that team folded he went to the NJ Generals. He only came back to the Bills because the USFL folded. Now everyone loves Kelly, but not a lot of people remember he thumbed his nose at the NFL and the Bills. The poster blamed Ralph and Ralph alone, which is ignorant. Who can blame him? It's the same way our top 10 draft choice will feel next April. We've sunk to that level yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Ralph has held this city hostage with this team and as happy as I am that he has brought them here and kept them here he has consistantly put a bad product on the field. I go to every home game, and will continue to as long as there is a team here in Buffalo Hostage? No way. Someone who is willing is not a hostage. I read these 2 sentences many times, and it is still a mind boggling concept to me. I'm not putting you down, as there are many who feel exactly the same way you do. But in my feeble mind these two statements together do not compute ... He has consistently put a bad product on the field.I go to every home game, and will continue to as long as there is a team here in Buffalo. My translation ... I'm being sold a bad product, but I will continue to buy it as long as it exists. or Man, this 6 month old spoiled milk tastes really bad and I puke every time I drink it. I'll take another gallon every week please. Does not compute ... does not compute ... (traces of smoke escaping from brain) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Who can blame him? It's the same way our top 10 draft choice will feel next April. We've sunk to that level yet again. and when Joe Montana joined the 49ers in 1979, they were a 2-14 team. They had 4 winning seasons in the decade before that. Good players can change the entire texture of a team. Montana and Kelly both proved that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Compare the rosters. No wait, there is no comparison. Ralph was the owner of the team then too, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 I've been following this team since '65. I do blame RW. How far back do you want to go? He let Pete Gogolak go to the Giants rather than give him a raise. He allowed the Lamonica/ Glenn Bass trade for over-the-hill Tom Flores and Art Powell, who was a huge locker room cancer. He let Ron McDole go to the Redskins when he still had good servicable years left because of money. We could have signed Ted Hendricks but Wilson was too cheap. He let Ahmad Rashad go. This franchise has a legacy of bad decisions solely based on Wilson's pocketbook. The phony explanation of continuity being the reason for keeping Jauron post last season is but the latest example. We fans deserve better..., a better product, a better front office, a better coaching staff, and yes, a better owner! And we can go to the 90s when Ralph was the owner of a helluva football team. Look, I'm not saying that Ralph is blameless. Someone(s) sold Ralph on Jauron last season. And Ralph might bring in another Jauron/Williams/Mularkey next season. Or he might bring in the next Belicheck. I've been following this team since their 1st season. I went to games at the old Rockpile. I B word too. But I'm a Bills fan and for as much as I might B word, I'm looking forward to changes at the end of this season and will ALWAYS hope for the best (even though I'm prepared for the worst). Why can't next season be the resurrection of the 90s Bills? It can. It happened before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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