Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

That's the problem in Buffalo, there's little room for error. Any FA signings need to work out as we i.e. RW isn't as willing as a JJ to just eat the contract and move on.

I agree that is one of the biggest problems, but I wouldn't call it an absurdity as there are many other teams in similar boat. You list a handful that have worked out, but for everyone one that's worked out, there are three failures. Look at the last twenty years in places like Detroit, Chi, Cleve, KC, NO to name a few. Even both NE and Indy are two teams that for years floundered with different QB's then they got lucky. A few teams like the Jets had an OK guy for a few years in Peddington, but was hurt to much. Same you could say about Warner going to StL, good for awhile till he left and now Az. However if Warner does retire though that team may go from 1st to last in one year. The Bills haven't failed for trying, just bad choices. Would a better GM help, likely yes. But the one problem unique to QB is there are 32 teams in the league but there are NOT 32 good starting quality NFL QB's out there. I'd give it a dozen or so,and another dozen ones you can maybe get by with. There's always going to be a certain amount of luck needed in getting a good QB. Was NE really smart in getting Brady, no way, jusy lucky. What was he a sixth rounder? If NE really knew he'd be good, you'd have picked him earlier. They just got lucky and had a strong team around him.

Absolutely wrong on this point. If Frazier was head coach HE would have selected the OC. Maybe he knows nothing about CG. Only if he were comfortable with him would he have been selected. Defensve guys tend to be on the conservetive side, (see DJ) so often choose OC's along those lines. Maybe would have happened, but there'salot of guys out there Frazier could have picked from.

Assuming everyone is healthy I agree that 4/5 of the starters are solid and have some good backups for depth. Bell is questionable. When the rest of the original starters were playing he looked OK, maybe could have improved to become decent, but not certain either he's good enough to be a starting at LT. I think we'd be better in the long run geting a better LT, but would be fine with keeping bell around for depth. All things considered while it's unlikely for a rookie to come in at LT and look great immediatley I don't think our O-line is in terrible shape. The biggest problems we currently have is QB and overall front seven on D One good outside linebacker, (could it be Maybin?) solidifies you there and one good DE/ and/or DT.

So are you telling me when it came to players. Marv just put his feet up and told DJ, JG, TM, and RB, pick whomever you guys want? I agree the picks were not all on him and I'm certain he would never have selected anyone that the rest of the front office didn't agree with. But I do think he was on board with the picks, agreed with them, and felt they were solid. To think anything else that Marv had no involvment is rather naive. I also will agree with you that he had little input towards marketing, that was likely all on RB (which was pretty good) So I guess I'd give Marv an A for being smart enough to stay out of the marketing part of it. I'll also give you that the selections weren't totally his choice. TM is a scout, most likely he gave scouting reports on all the players, gave the good and bad points. Someone if it wasn't Marv, was then making the final choice. I'm 100% certain it wasn't RB, so that leaves three guys not inculding Marv. But Marv still needed to sign off on them. IF and this is a big if as none of us know for certain, lets just say DJ wanted to select a player, and TM thought he wasn't worth selecting that high, but Marv went along with it, then I'd give Marv an F. If all three guys felt the selection was solid at best I'd give him a C as he still needed to be on board and agree it was a good selection or not. I would say since Marv left with RB being the "GM" your comments about the GM role is more true so if you're going to give Marv and A, then RB desirves a AAA RB was NOT responsible for and should not be held accountable for: - the draft selections - the free agent signings - the marketing decisions (ie. toronto) As far as Marv's comments about continual change isn't helpful, I'll totally agree with that. To that I'd say, well Marv, kind of hard to have no changes when you quit after two years. (not that I'm conplaining) That forced another GM into the role, maybe not immediately, but two years later we have a new one. Cetainly it's expected that a new GM would want a new coach.

I'd also vote for this group. Would be OK with switching Butler and Leivtre. That leaves Hangartner, Meridith, Bell and forget ther other guy as reserves. (Scott??) Not a bad group there.

Since these two haven't yet beentalked about by others much, I'll add: We have enough guards, a tackle is what we need. If everyone is healthy and can stay healthy, and they sign Incognito I think we're one player away from having a good line AND good depth. I don't think we grab another receiver until you know how Hardy will turn out. At this point other the "experts" on this board who call tell Hardy's a bust know one knows how he'll turn out. There are enough other needs to fill first, I'd give Hardy one more year as the #2 guy. Maybe we pick up a receiver with a #5 or 6 pick, but wouldn't want to invest much there yet.

Interesting you mention that as in Larry Felsers book about the NFL, that move was cited as one of the biggest events that forced the merger. Gogolak wasn't a free agent as back then there was not such thing as a free agent. So the Bills still owned exclusive rights to him. Supposedly the two leagues had a "handshake" agreement not to sign players whom were signed by the other league. When the Giants signed him, Al Davis then declared open season on signing anyone, from there the floodgates opened and within a couple of years the merger was in place. There was a whole chapter i nthe book about this. For those old enough to recall the AFL, was an interesting book to read and remember the old days.

No I'm saying out of the 10 years TM was here the past two I think it mostly on him with alot of input from DJ. And those drafts were pretty good, excluding possibly the Maybin pick.

If they want to get rid of him, he'll be gone this year after the draft. If he's stil lhere in July, it's becasue Nix wants him here. And don't give me this RW is cheap line. Fornt office people salaries aren't that high t obegin with. Personally I'll be surpised if he's gone as he seems to be cut from the same as Nix. Persoanlly I thought Guy did a terrible job and was glad to see him fired. TM, I'm kind of neutral on. You really don't know how much of former years was his picks. I'm certia nwhen TD was around TD made the final call. Marv likely went by committee so if DJ, he and JG all leaned one way and TM the other likely they go the other way. Last couple years, he may have had more say, but likely still by committee, RB may have been the tie breaker when/if needed.

Maybe what he meant was Cowler was coming to Buffalo to reccommmend the Bills hire CG

I don't think there's a conspiracy. But TD was with ESPN before he came to Buffalo and likely had some friends there. After he got fired, guys like Mort took shots at the Bill's as I think TD took a beatign here with fans etc. Likely the Bills got a bit ticked at Mort takign shots at them, so they took these guys off their Christmas card list; i.e. didn't make their job easy, give them great easy access to team, etc. So then the media took it up another level and Bills responded in kind. Things have just escalated. Same thing at WGR. The dope said some things the Bills didn't feel were fair, so they hit the ignore button when he'd call. So then the Dope took it up a notch.

If all he cares about is the bottom line, he would have left Buffalo years ago. If somebody in western NY wants to buy the team as the highest bidder, thye get the team. Maybe even a small hometown discount would be given. Having said that I'm not sure there isn't some plan in place but for whatever reason RW doesn't want anything divulged until after his death. While he's still alive, he wants everyone to view him as prick. We shall see.

Agree totally, if Nix can get CG the players, he'll win.

A couple years back I was down in Jax for a job interview, didn't work out, but I did very much like the city. I've said for awhile, Jax is the only city in Florida I'd move to. Having said that, I'm not sure that Jax isn't too much of a college tow nto support an NFL team very well.

Three lines above what you bolded I also stated 9-7 or 10-6, so read the whole thing. And yes, to finish at .500 OR HIGHER lets say for three years in a row, would be a good first step. In football one or two wins better than prior is alot when you only play 16 games. We also have been a somewhat lucky 709 too, I mean if Indy needed that last game for home field, would we have won it? In the past ten years we've hit .500 one time I believe? Then when you get to that step, you then set the bar higher. Maybe it can be turned around faster, depends on the job Nix does. But first you need to make the team relavent again.

The only reason Frazier has any upside is becasue he has no downside as he hasn't doen anything as a HC. Agreed, he likely will become a HC soon, and five years later he could look like Bill Cowler or DJ. Until then no one knows, that's my point, upside is worthless if it doesn't work out. As far as my estimate goes, making the playoffs certainly would be a huge improvment for the Bills. But first lets see how many of these 9 make the playoffs the next two years again or so. Many of these new coaches look great one year, then two years later they were fired. Why? How many first year coaches made it last year; one Miami, whom didn't make it this year, 2007 Washington made it was the first or second year for that Zorn? We see how that worked out. The fact that 9 of 12 teams in playoff are first year coaches further indicates that many of these new guys from prior years had no continual success. Not saying these new guys won't be good, but I am pretty certain within three years. of the 12 , a third will be fired, and within five years half.

I'll grant you a new hire like a may more energize a team, though from what I've read about Frazier, I doubt he would have done that anyway. He sounds somewhat like a young DJ. Maybe Brian Shott could have been that person. He was the only coordinator type that I felt would have been a rather intriguing hire. Him I would have liked more than most of the other names. Just like Mary Levy who was fired by KC turned around the Bills when surrounded by top notch players CG could do the same IF nix comes through in the player department. Do I think this will likely happen, maybe, would I bet on it no. Though I will bet on Nix will draft and sign much better players so CG's job will be much easier. And CG is a good enough coach to get to 9-7, maybe 10-6. Good enough to win a Super Bowl, probably not. That makes them respectable so then if they want to hire a different coach, they won't be turned down as the roster isn't bare. As Marv has often been quoted, when he first came to Buffalo who wouldn't have been excited to coach a team with a young Kelly, Smith, and Thomas. So if Nix can improve the roster enough to go .500, the mteam again becomes relevant.

Nix is old school. He belives in building from the lines. I'd be very surprised to se him bring in a gimicky type QB. Gimicks only work so long.

I don't care whom the coach is, if the player doesn't have IT and have more of IT than 80% of the other players around, he'll never see the probowl. The good GM's find the players that have the "IT" factor. I firmly believe coaching is over rated. Look at teams like the Giants through 70's, lousy every year, then they hire George Young as GM, team turns around. Bill Parsells now thinks he should be a GM, so leaves the Giants. He's done OK as a GM, but never as good as he did as coach of Giants. The Mets were terrible for over 10 years until Frank Cashan was brought in. Detroit Red Wings once Gordy Howe and company left were terrible from mid 60 to mid 80's finally they got a good GM and the past 15 years or so have been near the top every year. Closer to home, Marv Levy is in the HOF, the same guy who got fired in KC, now had Bill Polien picking players and he's a great coach! Actually though weren't Smith, Kelly, and Reed all picked by the guy before BP? In the mid 70's the Canadians won 4 cups, but Scotty Bowman wanted to be coach and GM, so he left Montreal and came to Buffalo. The team did OK, but never great. He turned the roster over twice trying to find his kind of players, but never did. Can't recall the guys name who was the GM in Montreal, but he got all those players whom Scotty won with up there. Even the Yankees, they've won alot over the past 30 years, but for all the money they spent, didn't get a very good return on it. The past 15 years now have had Brian Cashman and they've won alot more than prior. For the first ime since JB, the Bills have a gm who has a scouting background and based on what he did in SD and his prior stint with the Bills, I feel confident he can select high quality players. What worrys me some about Nix isn't whether he'll find top players, but more how he'll handle the business side of the job. Actually I don't think JB did very well there either as he never met a player he didn't fall in love with and over pay for them. Get CG top level players and he'll win. Even if CG doesn't work out, if Nix gets the players, the team will become respected again finish 8-8 or so which then would allow Buffalo to more go after a Bill Cowler type.

Really how is he a step down from Frazier? The only reason people state that is because he's the next hot coordinator that everyone says is going to be a great HC. But its strictly an opinion based on nothing but at best a gut feel. Secondly how many coaches, front office people, media people ever rip a coordinator in that position. To all the coaches and ex coaches around every coord is the next coming of Chuck Noll or Bill Walsh. No one is ever bad, they are all incredible according to what they say. So then everyone picks up the hysteria and says Frazier would be a great HC based on him having done nothing. I kind of compare picking Frazier to John McCain selecting Sarah Palin as his running mate. There was alot written at the time that he selected her because no on knew ANYTHING much about her, so would take awhile to really dig into things. He was hoping by then the election would be over. That's the way Frazier is an unknown with little negative to say about him, so he must be great. I can understand people ripping the selection as not wanting someone like that. We all wanted a Cowler type hire. But to state the Bill's made a huge mistake hiring him when they could have had Frazier or Marty is a joke. I'll give you Marty may be a small step up from CG, but certainly not that much of a step up to go crazy over it. Year in and year out, Marty may have had better talent too but still never won much in playoffs. Looking at all the names out there, outside the big names like Cowler, they all had warts, in many cases with a guy like Frazier, you just hadn't had a chance to see them yet. The only name out there that to me had some intrigue to it was Brian Shott. The rest wouldn't get all excited about whomever they hired.

So because the league feels they should have hired Frazier, then that means the Bills are wrong?? Maybe DJ didn't want to hire CG. It was up to DJ at that point. Why would it be preferable to hire Frazier as HC and CG as OC? I can understand the CG as OC part, but what evidence does anyone have to say Frazier would ever be a good coach? I'd estimate foe every 4 to 5 coordinators hired, one pans out, and maybe another one pans out the second time around. I can understand people being upset with the hire as he's not a big name. But for people to beripping the Bill's because they could have hirered Marty Scott, or Frazier instead is amazing. Over the years Marty worked with some pretty talented teams, would always win in the regular season, but fail in the playoffs. CG has done about the same, but with alot less experience. If he'd been kept longer in Dallas maybe he would have won. Marty even when with teams along time never won in playoffs. Regular season, I think with equal talent, they are equal coaches. Frazier may become the next Bill Cowler or the next Dick J, no one knows so why would you want him instead. Complain for not hiring a big name who's won alot in the past like a Cowler, fine, but to rip them for not hiring Marty, assuming his comments are even true, or Frazier is crazy!

Whe ndid the Bills ever state they wanted Fraizer? Everyone in the media was stating that. The Bills didn't say they didn't want him, so then was just assumed they did.

So tell me exactly why Chan Gaileys resume looks much worse right now than Marv Levy's did in 1986? Both had marginal prior success as an NFL head coach. Marv had success in Canada and had successas a ST coach under George Allen. What put Marv in the HOF? Having a good GM who brought in great talent. Probably for the first time since JB we have a football person with a scouting background calling the shots. (Not that I was all that thrilled wiht JB either) Even TD didn't rise up through the scouting side. That may have been his problem as to why he'd make sone wild picks like Willis. Nix drafted most of the SD players and was involved with signing/scouting of many of the Bill's players from back i nthe 90's. He is a scout and I believe will improve the talent on the Bill's My biggest concern for Nix is how he'll handle the business side of the GM role. Will it take some time to re-build respect around the league, yes. I'm not sure if we can as long as RW is alive either, not becasue of him making bad choices, but just becasue of the uncertainty as to what will happen to the team once he's gone.

Yes Buffalo is shrinking, but the combined western NY southern Ontario is 2 mil. As was asked how many cities have that many people in the area? Not saying it won't happen, but you have to look at more than just the population of Buffalo alone. South really isn't doing all that good of a job supporting teams. Weather is niice too long of the year to bother sitting in a stadium watchign a game, and for years there was little if any pro sports, so they followed college sports. Long time habits are hard to break. Sports have become saturated, hard to find cities to go to anymore. Cities have woken up, not paying for new stadiums like they were 10 years ago. Things are changing in the sports world. I'm waiting for the day a team folds. I'll put my money on hockey first a city like Phoenix or maybe Nashville? Or maybe baseball, Florida, Tampa??