CincyBillsFan

I visit a few other fan forums on a regular basis and it just seems to me that there is something different about the criticisms of Allen.

First off if we're now going to scold Allen over dropped INT's then Mahomes is one of the worst QB's out there because he makes a specialty of throwing INT's that are dropped. Hell in almost every game I watch DB's drop INT's. That's why they're DB's and not WR's. Second the problem is that the offense is so reliant on Allen. As Greg Cosell has repeatedly said it is not reasonable nor effective to expect Allen to play Superman every week. The problem, and it's been the same for the last 5 years is that Allen has never been surrounded with an elite or IMO even a great offense. I'm talking about great O line AND great skill players.

I'm not saying it isn't legitimate to criticize Allen in the immediate aftermath of the Texans game for his poor play contributing to the loss. The post game thread is a great place to do it. What I'm talking about is the OBSESSION in criticizing Allen after a poor game. By my count there are SIX threads that either are titled to be openly critical of Allen or were attempts to provide a different perspective on Allen taken over by those heavily criticizing the QB. Why are so many threads and posts obsessing over Allen's poor performance in ONE freaking game? Sorry but it's over the top. I do see one potential top 5 concern for the Bills about Allen going forward. It's that maybe the Bills are doing to him what he Colts did to Andrew Luck. If that has happened and I don't think it has then we should all get ready to welcome back the lost decades.

No it wasn't because my point has never been about single game outcomes but about season long or even multi season long outcomes. My point is that bad games happen to every player and sometimes the team losses a game because of a key player having a bad day and I say so what. My point is that at no time in the last 5 years have I thought that Allen was one of the top 5 or even top 10 problems facing the Bills. He wasn't one of the top 10 issues facing the Bills after his bad game against the Jets, his even worse game against Jacksonville a few years ago or his poor game Sunday. Allen is the NUMBER ONE reason the Bills have made the playoffs the last 5 straight years. The NUMBER ONE reason they have won 4 straight Division titles and the NUMBER ONE reason NFL people view the Bills as a legitimate Super Bowl contender. Do you disagree? If you do I would love to hear who you think fills that role.

I think his eyes are working just fine. He is seeing that on most plays nobody is getting open.

Another thread telling us that Allen was awful, terrible even Peterman like. Just what we need. And bashing Einstein an ardent Allen supporter is just to good to pass up. I like Simms but his review is not the be all end all of what happened on Sunday. I agree that Allen was bad. But not awful as he didn't turn over the ball. But in the end so what? Hell even in games the Bills win and the O looks great folks come on 2BD to trash Allen over 0ne or two bad passes. So going forward what's the biggest issue facing the Bills: * Allen having a bad day. * The WR's having a bad day and not getting much separation. * The dropped passes by Kincaid. * The O line having a bad day. * The D having a bad start to the game putting the Bills in a hole. After all in the last two games the Bills D has surrendered 5 TD's on 6 drives. * The coaches having a bad day. Allen having an off day is not even in the top 5 issues coming out of this game IMO. So why are so many obsessing over it?

In theory you're right. But the issue we all are sort of ignoring is that Allen has played very clean with only 2 TO's in the first 5 games. One fumble took away a FG and the other gave the Ravens the ball well outside the red zone. The question we need to ask is whether or not the obsession on Allen reducing his TO's hasn't done more damage by simultaneously reducing his TD production.If we project current stats to the end of the season (a risky thing to do I know) then Allen is on pace for only 7 TO's and 34 TD's.

But on the road against good teams offenses often start out slow. Most of last season and so far this season the Chiefs offense starts a lot of games slowly and they rely on their D to keep it close until they figure things out. The Chargers game was a great example of this. BTW the Bills scored those 2 FG's within their 2nd drives in both games. The offense then disappears in part because as the D folds and gives up TD drives - 5 TD drives in the opponents first 6 possessions - Allen starts to press and the offense seizes up like an engine without oil. And for the record we fans are deluding ourselves if we believe that the offensive talent as currently presented is explosive and consistently able to generate points. Over the last 6 seasons the Bills have made the strategic choice to favor the D over the O relying on their elite franchise QB to carry the O. And to a degree it's worked as the Bills have enjoyed a prolong period of post merger success 2nd only to the Super Bowl years. And when the O has deviated from the McD definition of complimentary football actions are taken to reign it back in. The current O is structured to play McD ball and Brady is the type of OC that McD wants to enforce the idea that the O will play a certain way. And the desire to cut down on Allen's TO's and keep him healthy only reinforce that the O must play McD ball. The problem though is that the defense, for various reasons, isn't good enough to play McD ball. Melting like ice cream under a hot sun early in games is the worst thing a D can do trying to play McD ball. In game adjustments are fine but once Allen starts pressing in response to his D giving up TD's it's difficult for the O to bounce back. Making matters worse is the sense that a McD offense is not the best thing to run when you have an elite physical freak talent like Allen whose greatest strength is making off schedule plays. It's the same dilemma we've been arguing about since 13 seconds and I see only one solution: either McD moves on or Allen does and I know which one I want to happen.

One common theme that I agree 100% with is the notion that over the last 2 games Allen has pressed and when he presses he messes up his mechanics and can struggle. So why is Allen feeling the need to press early in these games? The answer is simple and IMO a legitimate point of criticism: the Bills D has played poorly the last two weeks allowing teams to jump out to big early leads before Allen & the O can get settled in. On the road it's especially important for the D to start strong. Consider these facts: * The Ravens scored TD's on their first 3 drives to go up 21 - 3 midway through the 2nd quarter. Is it surprising Allen was pressing after only a quarter? * The Texans scored two TD's on their first three drives to take a 14 - 3 1st quarter lead. Again this forces the Bills ad Allen to press on offense. So in addition to Allen having to play great in almost every game for them to win the offense needs to get off to a quick start. If they don't and the D allows the opponent to go up and down the field like a hot knife cutting through butter Allen tries to compensate and presses. And when Allen presses his effectiveness drops significantly.

I would be shocked if Allen hasn't been thoroughly checked out for a concussion by the Bills.

The Chiefs used it last night and it sort of worked.

Watching Rogers this season reminds me of Kelly's last season - he could still make some of his signature throws but overall suffered a rapid decline and was a below average QB. I see the same thing with Rogers who checks it down at the first hint of pressure. And the Jet's offense did not look good against the Titans either. My worry going into this game has always been the Jets D. But I find it hard to believe that they aren't seeing this as Saleh being screwed over.

I actually like Rogers. But am curious as to how Saleh was holding him back? By all accounts Rogers & Hackett ran the offense without any "help" from Saleh so how is firing him helping Rogers get the offense to be more productive? The only thing that makes sense is that Saleh balked at bringing Adams in because of the cost.

There is statistical support for this idea the last 5 years but I would argue that this is a very different firing then what we've seen before: * It's real early in the season and the Jet's at 2 - 3 are still very much in the playoff hunt. * Later season firings trigger players on bad teams to play harder for their careers. This is so early and the players will ave the London fog still swirling around their heads it's hard to predict what will happen. * Late season firings often involve coaches the players don't like and the elevation of a coach they like so they play harder. Is their evidence that this is happening here? * Late season firings can also trigger player guilt in letting down a coach they really like so they play harder. But at this point in the season will there be any guilt for being 2 - 3? * The Jets scored just 2 TD's in their last two games. They lost to both the Vikings & Broncos because of the crappy play of their offense. Remember the Jets D only gave up 10 points to Denver & 16 points to the Vikings (the O handed the Vikes a TD on a pick 6). Imagine if last year the Bills offense was scoring 35 points per game but the D was giving up 40 over a 5 game stretch and they fired Dorsey in response. My guess is that the players reaction would be a lot different then it was.

Great point and I actually like that it is now an unpredictable rather then worrisome game for the Bills.

And to be honest going into Monday's game I was a lot more worried about what Saleh's D might do to our struggling offense then I was about what Rogers and Hackett might do to our D. This is really a weird decision at this point by the Jets.

I assume you mean "we" as in a Jet's fan? But yea this firing seems strange to me with the Jets only one game behind a reeling Bills team coming into the Meadowlands. I've seen all the Jets games this season and except for week one, the defense has not been the problem. The offense on the other hand has reeked. Firing Saleh now seems crazy like Carolina Panthers owner crazy.

And that more then a concussion or Diggs on the other team is going to rattle a QB.

If this is true I doubt the Jets will get a "dead cat bounce" out of firing Saleh and in fact this might be a case of it hurting the Jets for both the Bills game and the rest of the season. Remember the best part of the Jets the last few years has been their D and that was Saleh's specialty. It's reasonable to assume that the defensive players liked and respected Saleh. After all even in the face of bad QBing the last couple of years the D played hard and was quite good. Now you have a Superstar QB show up who missed one season due to injury and has had a mediocre, at best, season so far, orchestrating getting the defensive minded coach fired. If I'm a Jet defender I'm thinking that given the outcomes to date the guy who needed to get fired wasn't Saleh by Hackett.

Yes Allen was awful for a big part of the game Sunday though he was quite good in the 3rd Quarter. But then again the O line was awful; the WR's were awful, the RB's average (at best) the D was awful for large parts of the game though like Allen had a great 3rd quarter. And of course the coaching was awful. But since I believe that Allen isn't and has never been a part of the real problem facing the Bills I don't see a need to dwell on his poor performance. Every player at every position will have a couple a season. The Bills issues that concern me are systemic and related to a franchise that values defense over offense in an era of football where the offense rules. I was watching the Steelers/Cowboys game and marveling at how Tomlin is able to keep that Franchises head above water every season without a decent QB. In fact it seems to me that Tomlin doesn't really care that he doesn't have a great QB under center. The Steelers are exactly the team that Tomlin wants and is comfortable with. He believes that one day his focus on the D and his demand that the O play complimentary football to what the D does will pay off with a SB win and he doesn't need a great QB to do it. It never will IMO but I doubt you could convince Tomlin of that. And you know who Tomlin reminds of? McD. I wondered as I watched that Sunday night game if McD wouldn't trade situations with Tomlin in a heartbeat. There are a lot of coaches in the NFL that would give up their 1st born to have Allen as their QB. Tomlin and I'm coming to believe that McD are not one of them. And this IMO might be at the core of a systemic problem facing the Bills that can only be solved if one of them leaves. I know who I would keep.

Not sure if we would be 0 - 5 but I don't think we would be any better then the current 3 - 2 and maybe would be 2-3. I took a look at Allen and Mahomes stats through the first 5 games and here's what I found: Mahomes Passing: 1235 yrds; 6 TD's; 6INT's; 69% completion; 89 rating Allen Passing: 945 yrds; 8 TD's; 0 INT's; 60% completion; 103 rating Mahomes Rushing: 83 yrds; 0 TD's; 0 lost fumbles Allen Rushing: 160 yrds; 2 TD's; 2 lost fumbles Mahomes Total Production: 1318 yrds; 6 TD's; 6 TO's Allens Total Production: 1105 yrds; 10 TD's; 2 TO's Seems to me that that difference between the Chiefs 5 - 0 record versus the Bills 3 - 2 record has been Defense and Coaching. Because QB play has not been the difference.

Correct. If they're going to criticize that throw by Allen then there really isn't anything the guy can do to make them happy.

Last night I watched the Chiefs regularly put 4 TE's on the field. A few times they lined 3 TE's out wide. They saw mixed results but I loved the idea that they decided their TE's were better then their WR's in some situations. So I ask the question, if Shakir is out again why wouldn't the Bills consider 4 TE's (Kincaid, Knox, Morris & Gillam).

Last night on the play where Mahomes threw the deep ball and the refs flagged PI on the Saints DB the pass was aimed over the WR's right shoulder to the outside. It was a similar placement as the one Allen threw with the exception that the Saints DB was closer to the WR.

3rd and 22 and they dump it off to Kelce and the guy that gets the pitch just happens to be shadowing him at the perfect distance? That was by design.