CincyBillsFan

I can't speak for what others post only what I post and I have always acknowledged that Kincaid is an important and effective part of the passing game. But IMO it is disingenuous to claim that a TE, no matter how good they are in the passing game, is the same as a WR. They have very different skill sets and responsibilities in a passing attack. And there is no "agenda" in claiming that the Bills have a very poor WR room. It's a statement of fact bolstered by the performance on the field. That doesn't mean I don't believe that once we are fully healthy and if young players like Coleman progress the Bills won't have a decent WR group. But RIGHT NOW and RIGHT HERE they do not. If you're looking for posters with agendas, I would suggest you look at those that argue we don't have a critical WR issue.

Kincaid is not a WR, not even close. He is a very good pass catching TE. There is a huge difference between the two.

Then a healthy Milano - no. Against NE in the first half the D looked very stout with Milano in there. The Pats only got 2 FG's one of which was a gift from Coleman. When Milano went out NE's offense came to life a bit scoring 17 points. Milano may not be as good as Shaq against the run but he's much better against the pass.

This is why the game Sunday is so interesting. I tend to agree with you that from a player and playbook standpoint the Bills have been load managing the team. Giving guys that extra week off to get fully healthy and not going to deep into the playbook. But for a variety of reasons this is the game to go full bore and forget about any load management. We'll know more Sunday night.

How can he miss them? They're wide open in the middle of the field.

And Kincaid & Knox.

I don't think the Bills did near as much for Allen in year 2 as NE has done for Maye. I do agree that we have replaced those productive WR's with increasingly ineffective receivers.

But that's the point of this thread, no? The Bills aren't trying to get their passing game to impose it's will on anybody. They had no choice against the Ravens and Allen & company delivered. In every other game they have tried to get their running game to impose its will on the opponent. I suspect that they were going to try to be more aggressive against Atlanta with the passing game but without Kincaid & Samuel and with Palmer going down in the 1st quarter they didn't have the horses to do it.

When I watch the Ravens I'm always amazed at the huge amount of separation that the Raven receivers get on TD throws. It's the sort of thing you see in High School, not the NFL.

Come on man the Bills went 13 - 3 and made it to the AFC Championship game. Allen was more then ready. And for the record, there was a lot of skepticism about Brown & Beasley among Bills fans and the national media, saying both WR's had seen better days.

Interesting. I agree that what we're seeing from the Bills on offense starting last year and intensifying this year is by design. And I could see the Bills being aware of this guys work. It's weird that on one hand there seems to be something off about the Bills offense particularly the passing game. Yet by almost every measure they're a top 5 offense. Are we just seeing the expected rough edges & growing pains associated with the Bills moving from one offensive approach to another? I don't know only time will tell.

Frankly this sounds like you have a personal beef with Allen. Who refers to him as the "all mighty Allen"? And Allen receives way more then his fair care of criticism on 2BD so what the hell are you talking about?

Again, what does "suck"mean to you? Because the way you throw the term around it means something very different to me. Here's what a QB whose performance sucks looks like to me: Fields: 9 - 17 - 45 yrds Taylor: 10 - 22 - 126 yards - 2 INT Ward: 10 - 26 - 108 yards - 1 INT Young: 18 - 35 - 154 yards - 1 lost fumble McCarthy: 11 - 21 - 158 yards - 2 INT - 1 lost fumble Flaco: 16 - 34 - 184 yards - 2 INT - 1 lost fumble. Show the Allen game this season where he has even come close to these games? And this is just a sample of the sucky QB play of 2025.

First, I am adverse to saying Allen sucked this season because it would be inaccurate. When you say someone "sucked" it means they were awful for the game. Last season Allen sucked against Houston - the only game you could claim he did. Two years ago Allen sucked against the Jets in the opener. But having seen what "sucked" looks like from a QB I can say that Allen has not sucked this season. Second, I give Allen the benefit of the doubt because he has been elite for the last 5 seasons. I'm not big on "what have you done for me lately". After all ingrates are among the worst kinds of people. Third, I don't break up games into Allen "sucked" in the first half but was great in the 2nd half. That is silly and in it's logical extreme you would be saying that Allen sucked on that pass but not on the next one. If you asked me abut Mahomes on Monday night I would say that he played great after struggling in the 1st half. So yea Allen struggled in the 1st half against Carolina but played very well in the 2nd half. My question to you is why are some of you so quick to characterize Allen s sucking when he struggles or under performs?

No one is saying that Davis was a superstar and there were no issues. The Bills were right to let him go and not pay him 13 million dollars per year. But the point is that the Bills have not replaced Davis's production at WR either in the draft or though FA signings.

And the highlights didn't include his 2 spectacular toe tap sideline catches against Indy in the playoff game. Of course we have no idea if that Gabe Davis is still available but we do know that his production from the last few years has NOT been replicated through the draft or by FA signings.

Again he hasn't sucked in any games he has under performed. There is a huge difference.

And what makes you so sure Bean & McD don't think we need guys that can make those types of catches? Against Atlanta on a 3rd & 10 early in a 7 - 7 game after the D had forced a 3 & out and the Bills were on their 2nd offensive possession Allen made a great throw under pressure to Shakir along the sideline for what should have been a 15 yard gain if he keeps his feet in bounds. Many NFL receivers would have completed that catch. Hell I just saw Luke McCaffrey do it on Monday night. My point isn't to trash Shakir it's just to point out that those types of catches are not his strong suit. Not having WR's that can routinely make those tough, toe tap catches 10 - 30 yards along the sideline downfield is a major issue. Both Davis & Diggs could make those catches as could Cooper.

I can sort of agree with this. Only time will tell.

I said with respect to the type of throws that Allen excels at. Maybe in the most generic sense our WR group isn't the worst, just a bottom 10 group. Our best WR is Shakir and he is not a good 15 - 30 yard yard receiver at the boundary. Moore is a gadget guy, Shavers is a blocking WR that would struggle to make the practice squad of many teams; Coleman has yet to step up and is not playing well by any metric and both Palmer & Samuel's have had availability issues. So excuse me if I'm struggling to see all the talent in the WR room. And I stand by my assertion that this is the worst WR group since 2018. But I do think that if Palmer can get and stay healthy he might upgrade the receivers quite a bit. I also haven't given up on Coleman who I would not be shocked turned things around and became very productive. But in the here and now we have a WR problem and I can't understand those that claim we don't.

The answer isn't going to the extreme in either direction. I like that we can run the ball. But the current WR group is so bad that it actually reduces the positive impact of the Bills improved running game. People have mentioned the Eagles but they can make defenses pay a big price with throws to Brown off play action when they key to much on Barcley. We need to be able to do the same. I saw a glimmer of this with Palmer against the Falcons but then he got hurt.

I think many of us are talking in parallel because we're using different definitions of "deep ball". I agree that Allen is not elite in throws over 40 yards which I define as a deep ball. But in the intermediate zone of 15 - 30 yard throws Allen is elite and these are the Allen throws that give defensive coordinators nightmares. And IMO it's pretty obvious that our current crop of WR's are the worst since Allen's rookie year on catching these kinds of throws.

I disagree. Cooper had an immediate positive impact on the Bills offense. The threat of now being able to do something in the passing game well that you could not do before will provide a big impact.

It's one thing to say Allen is "under performing" and another to say he's"sucked". To say Allen has sucked this season is to admit that you don't watch any other NFL games because if you did you would have a better understanding of what "sucks" really looks like.

It's not the answer - either short or long term. But it is an upgrade over what we have now. I would hope that they do not use the presence of Davis as an excuse not to pull the trigger on a trade to upgrade the WR room.