CincyBillsFan

This weekend the Ohio High School football State championships are being played at the Hall of Fame stadium in Canton. There are 7 divisions (sorted by school size) so 7 championship games are played in all. It's televised state wide and I try to watch most of the games. In all the games replay is used. BTW it's only used for these games no others. So far after 4 games replay has successfully overturned multiple big mistake by the on field officials. It's safe to say that in 2 of the 4 games the replay has been the difference. So yea, a move to reduce on field officials and replace them with enhanced sky in the eye reviews would be better.

I agree the O line this season is much improved over last season and that gives me cause for optimism going forward. But this debate is about Allen's TO narrative which has developed over the last few years. For example, last season the Bills had one of the worst O lines in the NFL.

Momentum in the game was flipped when the Eagles marched down the field to score a TD in response to the Bills having gone up 24 - 14 late in the 3rd quarter. That got the Eagles crowd & D fired up. If you look back over this season and last season this has been a common refrain from the McD D - allow a team to score a TD at critical points in a game to either grab momentum, take momentum back or win the game. And for the record Allen left the field TWICE with the lead at the end of the game and BOTH times the D could not hold. The nagging undercurrent you throw out is the FACT that beyond Allen & Diggs the Bills don't have much in the way of clutch play makers on offense.

So which of these Super Bowl contending peers of the Bills has worse offensive weapons then Buffalo? KC: Sure they don't have the dynamic duo of Kelsey/Hill but Mahomes had them for 4 seasons. In 2022 the Chiefs had a much better O line (top 3 versus a bottom 10 Bills line) and much better offensive coaching. This season Mahomes is the closest he's been to Allen in weapons since they entered the league. And notice how similar their numbers are this year. And of course Mahomes has better offensive coaching and a better O line. SF: Can we agree that the 49's Purdy has enjoyed much superior offensive play makers and O line and coaching versus the Bills over the last 2 seasons. Eagles: Hurts clearly has superior play makers, O line and offensive coaching. Dallas: Dak clearly has superior play makers and O line. Miami: Tua has superior play makers and offensive coaching. Cincinnati: Burrow enjoys superior play makers, a better O line (today) and better offensive coaching. The Bengals let 2 starting safeties go to further upgrade their O line. Baltimore: This is the one SB peer that until this year has not had superior play makers though this year they do. This is also a team & QB that have not sniffed the Super Bowl with the team being 1 - 4 and the QB 1 - 3 in the playoffs since 2018. So I would love to hear which of the Bills SB contending peers has worse offensive talent/coaching surrounding their QB then Allen has surrounding him?

Except that over the last few years our stable of RB's haven't been very good at scoring TD's on the ground. How many times has 1st & goal from the 5 turned into 2nd a goal from the 7 after handing the ball off? Harris was supposed to be the RB that took over scoring TD's from inside the 10 but he got hurt. And the last I looked it's not like Allen is doing the Tush Push or diving over the pile from the half yard line to score his TD's In fact here are Allen's 9 TD runs: 1 yard, 2 yards, 3 yards, 6 yards, 9 yards, 10 yards, 11 yards, 13 yards & 16 yards. I wish we had a RB that could score TD's from those distances in 12 games. But alas we haven't had one that could do it over the last 6 seasons.

No most of us don't dispute the bolded: "It just points out that, as we all know, Josh could get better at not turning the ball over. If he did, he would then be fully on par with Mahomes...but as it is, he's a step down right now because of the turnovers" What we dispute are the causes and solutions to the problem: * The cause of Allen's excess TO's IMO is primarily because he has the weakest supporting cast of offensive players compared to the other QB's on the list. * The solution IMO is twofold: 1) shift FA money & draft picks to the offense and 2) move away from a defense minded coach to an offense minded coach. Others seem to think that Allen's TO issues are primarily his fault because he can't read the field or that he's careless with the ball. Other causes that are thrown out are that he doesn't work out in the off season and he makes to many commercials. These same folks claim that if Allen would just work harder in the off season and stop being careless the TO's would go away. Sorry I happen to think I'm right here and they're wrong. Hopefully well never have to test either hypothesis as a result of Allen leaving the Bills and taking leading another team to a SB win.

Is this how you debate points? Seems like you melt down and start throwing insults at anyone that disagrees with your unhinged and inaccurate attacks on Allen. BTW, what I think is weird is that you haven't been able to get past your hatred of the Allen pick from back in 2018. How long are you going to hold a grudge that Allen has made you and bunch of others look like football illiterates. Oh and I love your passive aggressive shtick where you trash Allen and then add a disclaimer at the end saying something along the lines that "Allen is a top 3 QB". Come on man, anyone reading what you say about Allen's deficiencies can't possibly believe that you believe he's a top 3 QB.

I am convinced that had the Bills focused on offense and not Defense the past 5 years they would have a SB trophy. The failure of the D to rise up and shut teams down in the playoffs went on for 4 straight seasons (2019 - 2022) and now is happening during the regular season. Imagine if instead of Oliver with the #9 pick we went offense in 2019 (maybe moving ahead of Detroit to take Hockinson) or had signed the best available offensive player in FA instead of Von Miller. And this isn't hindsight on my part as Oliver has been very good and Miller was worth the risk. It's me pointing out what could have been if the Bills were focused on the offense and not the defense.

The Bengal's, The Cowboys & Seattle have an embarrassment of riches at WR. Then you go to KC and you have a great O line and the NFL's best offensive mind. The Eagles also have a great O line, RB's & Receivers. Ditto for the Dolphins at play maker and the 49's have the best overall talent on offense in the NFL. It's clear that over the last few years the Bills have fallen further and further behind their peer SB competition with respect to O line and offensive play makers. Not sure how anybody could debate this.

This is flat out wrong. Allen was NOT the major reason the Bills lost that playoff game. The major reasons the Bills lost that game: * The defense, as it has been prone to do in the playoffs, blew a late 3rd quarter 16 - 0 lead. * McD got to conservative in the 2nd half with the offense. Allen actually played well in that game given it was his first playoff game, was on the road, and the Bills had not exactly surrounded him with play makers unless you consider that guy from the CFL a "ply maker". And in the playoffs during the time Allen has been here the defense has played poorly in all but one of the games.

The reasons: * The defense playing bad in almost every one of those games. * A head coach that is overwhelmed by the pressures of OT. * Nobody else makes a play.

I agree. It's one thing if the Bills had a solid, veteran QB like Alex Smith to play the role they apparently wanted McCarron or, gulp, Peterman to fill. But given Allen's play in 2018 surrounded by so little talent on the offensive side of the ball it was clear as day that Allen should have been named the starter at the beginning of training camp. Think about what that fool McD tried to do here. He didn't want to hand Allen the job (we had a process don't you now) so he created a fake competition between Allen & Peterman which he allowed Peterman to win. I guess McD was trying to show that high 1st round pick Allen that you earn the job not have it handed to you. You know in the same way he showed Cook that if you fumble the ball you don't get back on the field for a few series. The problem was that Peterman wasn't some grizzled vet who knew how to play QB he was a SECOND YEAR player whose previous start had resulted in his throwing a record FIVE INT's in the first half. Yea this is the guy McD decided to start over his lottery #1 pick. Please.

As I see it McD/Bean: * Botched Allen's rookie season. Allen succeeded in spite of them. * In Allen's 2nd season McD/Bean tried to cut corners in rebuilding their offense while continuing to throw resources at the D. Signing Morse was the best thing they did but the rest of the signings and draft capitol used were hardly big time. And no, Brown/Beasley were not splash signings they were smart pick ups that elevated what had been the worst WR group in the NFL but they were hardly big time moves giving Allen top of the line WR's. * In Allen's 3rd season McD/Bean finally made a splash signing on offense to help their young franchise QB by signing Diggs. This not only helped Allen to burst into the elite ranks of QBs but the Bills made it all the way to the AFC championship game. And they did this on the strength of their offense NOT their D. * In Allen's 4th & 5th seasons the Bills reverted to the bargain basement approach in constructing an offense as they continued to lavish FA money & draft picks on their D. After coaching malpractice wasted the otherworldly elite play of Allen in 2021 and their cheap ass efforts to build an O line resulted in the Bills having one of the worst lines in the NFL by the end of the 2022 season we had two more years of elite QB play wasted by Bean/McD. * In Allen's 6th year they finally threw some draft capitol at the offense and I suspect we'll be happy with Kincaid & Torrens for years to come. But for the Bills SB window it was to little to late.

Let's give it a couple of years okay? Like Allen, Stroud may be so good he can hide some of the issues with having a defensive minded coach. Or maybe the former D coordinator for SF spent enough time with Shannahan to have some of that magic rub off. But I stand by my opinion here: * McD is not right for the job because defensive minded coaches will waste the talents of elite QB's * The Bills organization, led by McD/Bean has not properly invested in the offense while over investing in the defense.

And whose fault was it that McCarron didn't pan out? Down here in Cincy, Bengal fans were happy AJ was signed as they thought he deserved a chance to start somewhere. And the comments made by AJ and his Bengal teammates was that he was going to Buffalo to win the starting job not babysit a rookie 1st round pick. There was nothing about McCarrons age, NFL history or attitude that suggested he would be right for that role. And as Mike Tyson famously said "everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth". If as you say their plan was to "red shirt" Allen how did that go? Can we at least agree that their "plan" fell apart and it was Allen & DaBoll not Bean/McD who made lemonade out of a bunch of lemons?

The issue for me is that McD is a defensive minded coach and that is not working in the NFL today. An average offensive minded coach would do more with Allen and company then McD has done. If Pegula isn't going to fire McD if he misses the playoffs, and I'm skeptical of the timing of this bit of news that he isn't, he must insist on a complete overhaul in how the Bills organization looks at their defense & offense. For the next couple of years the O must get the lions share of FA signings and draft picks. If the Bills don't do at least this then we will become the Chargers.

That doesn't change the fact that McD/Dean completely screwed up Allen's rookie year: * Started Peterman over Allen - great confidence builder there. * Didn't give Allen very many 1st team reps during training camp & preseason games - yea that had him ready to be inserted as the starter in week 2. * Tore the offense down and had arguably the worst collection of talent on the offensive side of the ball of any team in 2018 - they didn't just throw Allen to the wolves they tied his hands and feet together before tossing him out. * They didn't bring in a veteran QB to mentor Allen until half way through the season. I guess Bean/McD thought McCarron would fill that role but nobody told A.J. That Allen survived and at times shined his rookie year convinced me he was the guy. But the idea that Bean/McD deserve credit for creating an environment Allen could succeed in is misplaced IMO.

Which makes the 59 yard FG AND Allen's play all the more impressive.

For the record I'm waiting until ALL the information comes out here. These kinds of charges are fake all to often for me to be comfortable passing judgement.

It's a joke with a ring of truth attached.

First and foremost Allen developed himself into the player he is today. I know this goes against the "gone Hollywood" narrative but the guy has made his own way to the top of the QB world. It was Allen who chose not to give up and enroll in a community college when no D1 ofers were on the table; it was Allen who made the smart choice of going to Wyoming; It was Allen who then made the choice to work out with Palmer. Next, DaBoll gets a lot of credit for Allen becoming the QB he is today. You know who else should get more credit then Bean/McD for developing Allen his first two years? The people of Buffalo & Bills Mafia. The atmosphere in Buffalo was perfect for a guy like Allen. And he Buffalo community enthusiastically embraced the young QB which had to help him through those first 2 tough years. When I look back at 2018 & 2019 it's hard for me to see how the Bills did much to develop Allen. He was basically thrown to the wolves by Bean/McD. Fortunately between Allen and DaBoll he was able to float and then swim. * He wasn't named the starter as a rookie and didn't get a lot of 1st team reps in training camp & the preseason games. Allen saw Peterman, the worst QB to start games in NFL history, get the nod over him. How many guys would have lost confidence seeing that happen? Then Petermann predictably sucked and Allen is thrust into the starting job week 2. * Of course Bean/McD not expecting their rookie to play much in year 1 eviscerate the offense as part of a rebuild. Do you remember who Allen was playing with his rookie season? * In 2019 Bean/McD took the bargain basement path with their new QB. Morse was a solid if not risky signing but no one is going to call Brown & Beasley splash offensive signings. * It wasn't until 2020 when Bean/McD FINALLY made a big time move to support Allen on the offense by signing Diggs. But that was it until 2023 when they used a 1st round draft pick to take Kincaid. ONE splash offensive FA signing/draft pick over Allen's first 5 seasons. ONE! The narrative that the Bills organization developed Allen is just not supported by the evidence. I think it's safe to say that the defensive shortcomings seen over the last four playoff seasons are now being seen in the regular season.

Losman and Allen should not be named together as Allen is an exponentially better QB. Say the Bills drafted Baker, Darnold or the Other Josh, today we would be speculating on who was going to replace the coach that replaced McD in 2020. Meanwhile I suspect Allen on another team not named the Chargers would have a Super Bowl ring or two. Because the only other franchise in football that would have squandered Allen the way the Bills have so far wasted him would have been the Chargers. Because defensive minded head coaches in the current NFL can't get O lines, offensive skill players and QB's right. The Bills success has been in spite of McD and because Allen is really that good.

In what way? Did that INT end the game giving the Eagles the win? Did that INT result in the Eagles going on a scoring run and burying the Bills? What I saw was that Allen came back and led the Bills to the lead with less then 2 minutes left in the game and the D couldn't make it hold up. This notion that Allen's INT was any kind of turning point in that game is just not supported by the evidence. It was no more a turning point then the dropped TD pass or 2 missed FG's. In fact if you want to call out the closest thing to a turning point in this game you have to point at the defense allowing the Eagles to march down the field to cut the Bills 24 - 14 lead to 24 - 21 early in the 4th quarter. That got the crowd back into it and fired up the Eagles D. A simple stop by the Bills D giving Allen and the offense the ball back in the 4th quarter with a TEN POINT LEAD likley ends the game.

Because for these trolls bashing Allen knows no limits.

WRONG. What completely changed the momentum of the game was the defenses inability to stop the Eagles once they got hot. You seem to forget that the Eagles had easily gone down the field to cut the Bills lead from 24 - 14 to 24 - 21. That changed the momentum. Allen's INT after that was a product of his forcing the ball realizing that the D was falling apart again. What's surprising and a testament to Allen's skill is that after falling behind 28 - 24 Allen led the Bills on a TD drive that retook the lead, regained momentum and should have won the game. You and others are pushing a deeply dishonest take on what happened last Sunday. And you're doing it so you can bash Allen.