corta765

Agreed. The worst thing that happened this season was starting 5-2 because it got people excited. If they were 3-7 right now people would be more focused on the offseason and what their building.

I don't disagree that with each franchise for a time they started in over their heads but I fundamentally disagree that they have no idea currently and have poor org structures. Objectively it goes like this: Bills: Previously: Bought the team in 14 let things play out. Sided with the wrong person in the Whaley-Marrone fight forcing Marrone-Schwartz & potential Bills Czar Polian out. So yep they chose poorly there. Rex hire in a vacuum made sense at the time given his reputation with defense, defense's talent, and the hype it brought the Bills. For the record Rex wasn't my guy I wanted K. Shanahan or Schwartz but didn't mind the hire either. You are correct that the org structure was whack and Whaley always seemed to be on borrowed time even when things were at their best. However the Bills with the Pegula's as owner did go 9-7 in 14' and 8-8 in 15' just missing the playoffs both seasons. While not great I wouldn't say they wrecked things either. 16 was a tire fire and they did the smart thing to clean house completely. Currently: They have a GM and coach who see eye to eye and share one vision the whole way through which did not exist with Whaley and either coach. If you remember Beane got some really highly regarded personnel people including Brian Gaine as VP of Player Personnel a guy most people figured would get a GM job not move to that role which frankly was just a lateral move. I think if the team had started 2-5 and was at 5-5 currently or even 3-7 people would be far less critical with the current roster/play myself included. But in regards to the organization its pretty much setup like every other team out there Owner->GM->Coach. Owner has been writing checks and letting those guys do their work for better or worse. Additionally Beane hasn't even had an offseason to work yet so lets give him a bit of time. Even with Darby, Sammy, & Dareus this team is maybe a game better W/L wise and long term still needs a QB with way less cap space to work with. I just posted an post yesterday stating that the 5 picks and cap space they have in 18 is crucial to setting the foundation for the future and that is what we really need to judge. Sabres: I would agree Terry was far more heavy handed and made greater mistakes. They should've restarted at the end of 2011, but making the playoffs jaded everything and he thought throwing money could fix problems. Mix in he did approve tanking for McDavid/Eichel and you have what you have. That said the Sabres again have a pretty normal org structure J Botts->Housley its just going to take time to fix the last 3 years of mess. Botterill is one of the most highly respected personnel guys in hockey and Housley was a younger coach that a lot of teams also wanted. Additionally they had just fired Bylsma who had a cup and tons of experience and just about everyone clamored for someone new and different so I'm not sure what could be done to satisfy the masses. So yes if you want to stay at the start with each team they were too involved and over their head at points I would agree especially with the Sabres. But currently for both teams they have sat back and let their people do what they can for better or worse. The Sabres need 2 more seasons before they realistically are a playoff team if the kids develop. The Bills harder to say because if you hit on a QB in this draft it changes a lot quickly and if they can get 4-5 new additions on defense between the draft and FA that should shore up the sizeable holes they have. I know people hate to hear this but a lot of sports frankly is luck. If the Bills drafted Big Ben instead of Losman we don't have a drought and the Pegula's seem like stable owners. If the Sabres get McDavid & Ekblad they probably get Babcock, another big FA addition, and their trajectory is far different. Without getting lucky along the way the best thing an owner can do is be patient and stay out of the way. As other posters have said they seemed to have learned that with both teams and cut their losses the last 2 years to setup org structures that replicate other teams while infusing the areas they can with money and as much resources as possible. The hardest part is right now which is to sit, wait, and be patient I'm sorry to say. If you want to back down your fandom for a bit I wouldn't blame you in the least, I went from having seasons to going to 3 games this year and next year probably down to 2. I'll still watch every game but I'm in a prove it mode for both teams.

Agreed in the extent Schwartz needed to stay just not sure the capacity He still is a DC so wasn't like you couldn't have brought in a HC who wouldve kept him and the scheme. I think in 2014 Whaley won the power battle otherwise Marrone stays with Schwartz and Polian is GM. That really defined the direction to where we are now. Then the owner got excited because the defense was good and rushed to get a guy like Rex who had hype and considerable success on D in the past. What has me so down is both teams are so downtrodden and laughable. I can't remember a time in my life where neither team offered much hope on the horizon and seasons felt so over so early on.

There is no unimportant drafts/offseasons but realistically this is the one with the heavy lifting coming because if the team doesn't improve or shown signs of tangible growth with a rookie QB the clock on the GM/Coach starts ticking come year 3. And with the way our fans are media have been if its 3 pretty down years I doubt you see a 4th given.

While it has been a frustrating few weeks the truth is this season was always about laying the path and framework for what McBeane see as their vision. I was in the camp that was hoping they made the playoffs even if they got smoked to kill the drought, but I understand others who say we were better off at 4-12 so you had your pick of the litter at QB in this draft. Regardless it comes down to 2018 being the off season they have to get it right and I look at it like this: They will carry some decent to very good assets into the off season in these players: Benjamin, Z. Jones, Dawkins, White, Hughes, Poyer, Hyde, Incognito, McCoy, & Wood if they still want him. What they fundamentally have to nail to set the future is this IMO: QB, DT, LB (both ILB/OLB) They still need help/depth at: G, OT, CB, WR, DE Quarterback is pretty easy to state as being crucial for their future in terms of sink or swimming, but to me the defense as a whole is almost equal in need. The defense biggest failing this season has been the ability of teams to attack the middle of the defense on runs/passes and we haven't even played NE who thrives there. We have no young talent at either DT/LB currently and they need to hit this hard in the draft and free agency to shore this up. Back in the "good days" 2013/14 defense the front four was supremely talented and the LB core had the likes of Bradham & Kiko with P.Brown being the 3rd guy which is where he should be. Just about every strength we remember from those years is gone or in Kyle Williams case regressing due to age. McD needs his D next year to be a greater strength to the roster especially with most likely a rookie QB driving the ship. McCoy can be relied on to help take some pressure off whatever kid is there but he will need a spell back regardless in case he sees any regression. People can talk that the 19/20 offseason's will allow more time to build whatever McD/Beane want but realistically by then the team better be winning and in the playoffs. Those offseason's should be adding final touches to this not base pieces. Obviously yes if a DT the caliber of Donald was there in 2019 go for it, but the 2017-18 drafts/FA additions you need to be seeing some real fruits from because it also takes time for guys to develop. Between the 6 picks in the first 3 rounds and the amount of cap space the Bills are pooling for 2018 McBeane have a lot of resources to really craft what they want. The true foundation of the roster will effectively be set from that and whats taken from this season. In ways it will be super exciting as fans and in others very nervous because a lot hinges off what happens.

Agree although NFL coaches and GMs basically expect that if you draft round 1 that player is starting and hopefully one of your round 2/3 picks sees action regularly. So I was just going off that philosophy that the Bills out of 6 picks in the Top 90 can get 2-3 true starters and 1-2 solid players who see time regularly. Frankly if they can't get that it will set back whatever they think they are building now. And whoever is drafted QB better be ready to go come the opener because fans and media will not give them time. My greatest disappointment organizationally with Rex's hire was how much they undid just because of him. Nigel Bradham may not be an All Pro but he was a very good LB, Schwartz had that unit playing very well and in unison, and in general they had a good pool on defense of vets and young guys like Bradham & Gilmore.

Realistically this off season they should fill in the draft QB, DT, MLB, and OT. Figure in FA they get SLB and CB, they are left needing OG/DT/NCB plus your RB in Shady's mold although these days you can find RB's in rounds 4-6 #kareemhunt so I wouldn't overdraft for that unless its Barkley. That fills a decent amount of the needs while still needing some help but thats similar to everyone. To me the big key is who the QB is and fixing the middle of the defense which is being run/passed over badly. For the record I have zero clue if the needs I have filled or happen its just best case hypothetical bs...

I understand your rational and partially agree. When things are bad or teams are bad its hard to see the positives that you can build with moving forward though. Your right a QB cannot do it all himself although I would also argue he can do a lot to carry a team and elevate the play of those around him. Looking at the Bills objectively I see the following strengths and weaknesses on each side: Offense Strength: Interior O Line (Dawkins, Wood, Incognito), TE (Clay/O'Leary/Thomas), RB (for now as long as McCoy is healthy and here) Offensive Weakness: QB, O Line Tackles (Unless Glenn magically is healthy all season) , WR (although if Benjamin is decent and Zay keeps improving then they just need a WR#2) Defensive Strength: White at CB, Poyer/Hyde SAF Weakness: DT, DE depth, Depth at CB after White, the entire LB core. Realistically they probably fill about half of those needs in the offseason. Lets say in draft they get the new QB, DT, LB, and a new LT/RT that helps decently to plug some big holes. FA perhaps they hit on another guy or two that helps at CB and LB things don't look too bad and they look similar to other rising teams. Almost every team has holes regardless of how good the key is the Bills filling those and finding the right QB. Now whether they will get this right? That is the million dollar question and I would say this offseason is paramount to how successful McDerment and Beane are long term.

I do believe in some way their is probably a racial bias that exists in regards to QB. That said this is not in anyway a case where race was a factor. Tyrod had the keys for two and half years to drive this ship and didn''t do enough. He isn't a bad QB and in the right system he would have success. BUT most coaches, GM's, etc... want a pocket passer that is accurate and can hit tight windows across the middle with a fast release now that defenses are faster then ever. Tyrod is not a pocket passer despite Roman and Dennisons effort, his release is one of the slowest in football, and he only sometimes hits his windows. For what most coaches, GMs, etc.. want what he has done isn't enough. Great we might go to the playoffs with him and then what. After years of listening Mike Schopp to me is one of the worst sports analysts I've heard, he lacks original thought, and in general just seems like an awful person to be around in general. The guy thrives on stuff like this so I am not surprised it became a topic. If he wants to the the QB and race discussion it actually would be a good discussion to have, but in support of Tyrod is just asinine. And for the record I was a massive supporter for Tyrod from the day we got him and frankly thought the last two seasons he has got a semi raw deal thanks to coach/GM. That said make your plays or your toast dude. The morning guys I find at points very compelling and interesting. Schopp & the Bulldog sound the same and generic now as they did back in 2005 when I was listening. Just zero growth or evolution the only thing that is remotely cool is when they do a draft of some form and even those may be a bit played out now.

I understand your frustration with the Bills if this move backfires and Peterman flames out. However I have to disagree with you in regards to the coach being a bad coach and the decision being wrong. Outside of the Bilsl going 12-4 and winning the SB Tyrod was basically here for this year and next year we were having a new QB no matter what. I do agree that he hasn't been the best fit in the offensive system they run but he also has been very tentative this season to even throw when he does have time. JW at WGR550 made a great point that on a free down due to a penalty in the Jets game Tyrod just threw the ball out of bounds rather then trying something remotely risky. He is what he is which is a bit above average QB who will get you to the playoffs with a good team and system. This is an insanely bold move by the Bills but I respect the effort and thought because they are going for broke not settling. Honestly the last time I remember anything close to a move this seismic was Johnson for Flutie. You have to give them credit at least for not sticking with the same old as they have the last few years and trying to improve at QB despite having a stable option. Yes this can a 100% explode back at them and if it does they will deserve the flack especially if the locker room shows a lack of effort in response. But teams have figured out Tyrod and having them say "we wanted to make him a QB" is not the type of pharses you want to hear and the offense only getting the ball for 18 mins and going 3 and out hurts an already fragile D-Unit. Like I said this absolutely could explode, but I wouldn't judge this either as the end all be all for McD yet. If it does work it will be fun, we maybe make the playoffs and perhaps even have a QB that has a true chance. If it doesn't we get a new QB next year and McD/Beane really go under the microscope.

The one thing I walked out of the stadium thinking after the Saints game was even if the Bills make the playoffs I hope Tyrod is gone after this season and we draft someone new. My great fear is they make the playoffs and say Tyrod is enough and don't pull the trigger even on a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round.

I am generally in this camp. Where we are right now reminds me of after the Carolina game where the offense was just as putrid and then they got their sh*t together a bit. I understand peoples concerns on their edge rushes but their run D is rated like 3rd worst and I think that helps to neutralize them a bit. Also Tyrod's best game I've seen as a pro from him was that Broncos game after Carolina and Denver's pass rushers were just as fierce. So will see.

I wished the Bills resigned Woods. I loved him as a blocker in the run game, thought he had a great work ethic, and he was a solid #2 WR to have. Strangely I miss him more then Sammy even though Sammy was better on deep routes which we need more for TY.

Actually the question was posed because if you look at the stadium wall its as bleak all over as a team that is 0-9. I generally just was wondering others thought process because once the seasons is over in my eyes I may watch a little to pass the time but I'm done on here in regards to the team unless it has to due with the draft, FA, or the schedule.

Haha I hear that. For Rex's two years I went to the Patriots game expecting a win because of the following reasons: -Rex has beaten the Pats -It was our time -It has been 5 (then 6 ) years we are due for another win at home -2015 the defense and offense is well balanced they aren't ready for us -2016 well they won four in in a row and Miami was just a bad game we are ready to rebound So yeaaaa my logic come gametime was gone. This season I am not going to the Pats game in Buffalo lol

My question basically stems to this: After the last two weeks a lot of people have written the team off, some want Tyrod thrown into a volcano never to be seen again, others the coaching staff, and in general see absolutely no hope and have stated as much. Some are so down on the team they don't even care if the team makes the playoffs if they were to get smoked in the game. So I sincerely ask why do you still comment and care? After the last two weeks I know things are pretty bleak right now but I am not writing off the game nor season until it happens. I am not saying either I don't think the Bills are flawed and have issues but I will at least want to see that happen rather then assume it and that is with 17 years of proof otherwise. I think if they make the playoffs it's still great even if they get beaten pretty badly because of the weight lifted off the franchise. To me being a fan comes down to going through the dark times (and yea they have been reallyyyy dark here) so when the good days do arrive it is that much more full filling of a feeling. I am not sure how many of you are or are not Sabre fans but the 05-06 season was my favorite because for those of us who went through the down seasons and bankruptcy it was the greatest surprise you could ever have expected as a fan. Unfortunately being 29 I have only a few sparse Bills playoff memories and good one's in general. So again if your someone who has written the season and Chargers game off already or would rather the team just tank's to 5-11 I ask in general curiousness why do you still keep cheering, comment, or care in anyway?

Yes because the only way to get a franchise QB is to have a record in the Top 10.

Sorry but this is just stupid. Making the playoffs is making the playoffs it removes an enormous weight off the franchise the moment it happens and you and everyone else on here would find a way to get excited because that is what we do as fans. Had the drought have been broken even five years ago the focus of the franchise would've been far better at the big picture and there is no denying that the drought has forced the Bills to rush and make decision in the name of breaking the streak not building to win it all.

Glass Half Full: They still are in playoff position, the D up until the previous two games was doing quite well against the run and stopping teams in the redzone, and the offense I think still can improve with Benjamin here Clay healthy and more time to gel. Plus at points this season Tyrod has played better then I have seen yet. Glass Half Empty: Run defense has been gnashed two straight weeks, tackling has went from being sound to a tire fire, they have lose two winnable games to Cincy/Jets that now give zero room for error, the offense has been out of sync badly the last two weeks, and in general the way they laid down against the Jets/Saints and showed no amount of fight and heart is incredibly concerning. Additionally Taylor against the Saints was a tire fire of epic levels that is hard to come back from. Whats Next? Well this game is pretty much it for playoff chances. Win and things still look favorable with Colts and Phins at home and a late road date in Miami who shouldn't be playing for much. Most importantly it gives the team some confidence which it seems to have really lost since the Matthews fumble in that Jets game. Lose and the idea of going 6-10 looks quite ominous, makes you pause on how much progress really had been made this year, and conjures up every memory of the last 17 years with a soul killing slide out of playoff position.

So I do know that LA actually has permission from the NFL that 20k in seats are not used. So if you watched the game yesterday you shouldve seen the top half empty on purpose because those are in the 20k not being sold. Not in complete defense of LA because I do think the fans are fair weather as heck, but they had major issues last year with the stadium in terms of concourse being over crowded, bathrooms over crowded and flowing, vendors running out of water etc... I do think that played a major role in why they limited the seats to 70k instead of 90k. That said I think even they knew 90k is hard in that market but will never admit to it.

Agreed. There is a reason why after 4th/5th grade kids stop playing soccer. They shift to Basketball, baseball, hockey, lacrosse, or football. The US is far more diversified in terms of sports compared to other nations and our investment in the top 4 sports of Football, Basketball, Baseball, and Hockey is far greater than any other nation in terms of how far you can go with college and even the pro's. If you don't think kids look at those sports as far more lucrative both star and money wise compared to the soccer and your wrong. I can straight up tell you that I will try to have my child gravitate more towards Hockey, Football, Basketball, or an endurance sport like Swimming/Running before I have them go near soccer. It isn't a bad sport but I would rather they play one of those or start a rock band before soccer.

Your really missing the point here. A lot of people including myself find it utterly insane with the imbalance in suspensions across the board and after a while having your players routinely in the news for DV is really bad for your league. If your about to truly argue for a guy like Hardy just because court didn't find him guilty despite the pictures and numerous reports of multiple occasions idk what to tell ya bud.

The Brickwood at least for the night games has been very good to watch a game at. not sure about others I've always wanted to check around to see what other bars are like

The fact Josh Gordon is suspended seasons for weed yet Josh Brown is suspended only 6 games Greg Hardy 1. Probably should've clarified this better but my point is the DV suspensions at points are laughable in terms of harshness but Brady was suspended more for some semi deflated footballs.

I don't think football will ever go away just simply because kids in the innercity look at it as vehicle out of bad situations into good and football hotbeds like Florida Texas & California see no slowly. I think you will see though soon no tackling until at minimum 8th grade and all youth leagues switching to flag football styles. I do think though football will probably plateau and have a dip like we are seeing. They killed the golden goose over the last 5 years between denying concussions, domestic violence suspensions that make zero sense, and player issues in general that they have allowed to the forefront. I think like MLB football will be popular and years when you have new exciting teams like the Astros or historic teams like the Cubs winning it will get more attention and boon. But years like this where soo much talent is injured and up top it still looks like a lot of the same teams people will tire and not care as much.