oldmanfan

Agreed

Every virus is different. We were able to get more effective vaccines against some of those you mention because they apparently don't mutate to the same degree as Covid does. Covid I suspect will be more like the flu in that boosters will be needed yearly as new variants are found. We should all be glad Covid is not HIV, a virus that has been impossible to vaccinate against.

Never heard of him, don’t care what he says.

You are being ridiculous. It is easy enough to look up the recommendations. Do you honestly believe the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology would recommend vaccines to women if they felt it would hurt them?

And this is where you are absolutely mistaken. I work in reproductive health care. The leading professional organizations advise those who are pregnant or trying to get pregnant to be vaccinated. You are deliberately spreading false information.

Here’s a quick quiz: Which of these pictures is indoors? Which of these pictures has people who cannot get vaccinated?

Ok boys, let’s matriculate the ball down the field!

Where I work about 1% of our staff refused. To say medical staff does not want vaccine is a wild exaggeration.

Go to Ted’s once before you die. You won’t regret it.

You did not read that because no one ever said that. What was said is the vaccines are safe because the very small number of adverse outcomes are far outweighed by the benefits of keeping folks from getting Covid. The CDC and other health care agencies around the world have done and are doing flow up on those vaccinated to make sure they find any adverse effects. How do you think they found the myocarditis complication, the vast majority of which resolve on their own? You bring up two people who died. That’s tragic. And may be completely unrelated to the vaccine. Aneurisms happen in young people and they go completely unnoticed until the burst. Healthy 46 year olds die from heart attacks and such every day. The data on the vaccines show there is no increased mortality related specifically to the vaccine. You obviously have an opinion you refuse to change based on facts. That’s sad.

You can trust the CDC. The people that work there have comprehensive backgrounds in the science of epidemics, public health, and virology. They have dedicated their professional lives to this. No one has ever, ever, said vaccines are 100% safe. What is said is the benefits of the vaccines far outweigh any risks. The VAERS data has to report any side effect or death for any reason in folks receiving any vaccine. And the CDC and FDA have to follow up on it. When they do they find that except for a very few deaths they are not vaccine related. Viral diseases are difficult in general and the Covid even more so. The delta variant is much more infectious. In vaccinated people it can reside and multiply in the upper respiratory region for a few days, which is why you can still test positive and still transmit for a bit. But you don’t get the severe illness and death. You ask about immunity vs. protection. Immunity is a public issue. It involves getting enough people either exposed to the virus and surviving (natural immunity) or vaccinated to deprive the virus of hosts. Once that happens the virus can’t propagate anymore. Research continues on this virus. As more data is obtained opinions on how to attack it and recommendations for protection change. That is how science works.

There are multiple studies showing the data indicating there is no increased miscarriage rate. I look at the actual studies. You are looking at a women’s magazine. Look at the studies. Do you honestly believe the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, the leading organization in the country for women’s health, would say the vaccine is safe if it’s not? I read somewhere 2.5 hours.

Ridiculous assertion. Vaccinated people are at lower risk of transmitting and at much lower risk of getting seriously ill or dying.

For anyone who was a fan back in the 70’s it will forever be the Fish.

They have a guy who can’t play and refuses to go along with what the medical staff thinks is wise. If Eichel wants the alternative surgery so badly, let him sign a waiver that automatically voids his contract should he not be able to play for X time post-surgery. Adams is completely correct here.

Damn. Sorry to hear and my sympathies to you and your family.

First of all, there are not as many health care workers as you think not taking the vaccine. I'll use my health care network as an example. Out of approximately 14,000 employees, only about 200 had to be let go for vaccine refusal. That's about 1% of our workforce. ECMC says they will have 400, but without knowing their total number of employees I would say that it would be in the single digits of percentage of employees. The vast majority of health care workers get vaccinated because they understand they need to protect themselves and their patients, and because they understand and accept the science. The ones that don't are allowing political views to skew their thought process. You think there are a lot of health care workers not taking it, because the few that won't get highly publicized. The VAERS system reports ALL incidents from ALL vaccines as I understand it. And they report any side effects. Also, the reporting can be done by anyone, so it is not outside the realm of possibility that some anti-vax people are filing false reports. The CDC has been vigilant about following up with vaccinated folks, and any VAERS reports have to be looked into by the CDC and the FDA. When they do so, the number of supposed deaths that can be attributed to the vaccine are extraordinarily small. Now, does that prevent those who are bound and determined to not accept the truth from coming up with false data and such. Sadly, no. You see in today in this very thread. It used to be they would point to the VAERS data as proof of something sinister. But since that hasn't worked, now they point to the VAERS data as being unreliable because (supposedly) all the mystery deaths and reactions from the virus are not being reported.

All right, stop with gratuitous insults. The information I post is based on the science of what we know and don't know. We do know these vaccines work. That is undisputed. We also know that, if you have been infected and survive, you develop antibodies against the virus. We also know that some people who are infected develop either less of an immune response, or may not develop antibodies at all. That data is out there. And we know that in those who produce a strong immune response after infection are doing well, which is great. I am all for doing more studies of the natural immune response. Researchers are trying to figure out what the long term immune responses are in both those vaccinated and those who have been infected and develop an immune response. There is an interesting study out of Rockefeller University that suggests vaccines and natural immunity both produce memory B cells, which are those that make antibodies against virus for a long time. Their data suggests that the memory cells are produced much quicker than in those with natural immunity, but the ones from natural immunity may stay around and provide protection for a lot longer. And of course this does not take into account the cell mediated, T cell responses of either. The point is that this is a very complex scientific issue, and it requires some of the brightest minds in virology and such to figure it out. What we do know without doubt is that unvaccinated people should be vaccinated. If they do not, they put themselves at risk of becoming infected and potentially dying or suffering serious adverse effects. On that there is absolutely no question. Just realized this response should have gone to Timmy, but my point on the gratuitous insults stands. We don't need that stuff. Because we don't know for sure how protected they will be, and we know there are no downsides to the vaccination in such individuals.

The video I gave the link to expresses concerns about the methodology of the Israeli study. I am all for more testing, but it can't just be a positive vs. negative test. It would have to be an antibody test with titers to show how much of an immune response has been generated. More work needs to be done on that front.

We need a balanced budget amendment. It would keep both parties from spending like drunken sailors.

I would be fine with testing employees to see who has antibodies, but it would also appear that your theory about previous infection being more protective may be in error. Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021 Weekly / August 13, 2021 / 70(32);1081-1083 On August 6, 2021, this report was posted online as an MMWR Early Release. Alyson M. Cavanaugh, DPT, PhD1,2; Kevin B. Spicer, MD, PhD2,3; Douglas Thoroughman, PhD2,4; Connor Glick, MS2; Kathleen Winter, PhD2,5 (View author affiliations) Check this site out as well. I'd be interested in your thoughts on how the statistics in the Israeli study might be flawed: https://echo360.org/media/df6327b6-1e39-401e-affb-5220eaedef8e/public

As health care workers our obligation is to keep our patients safe and healthy. The best way to keep patients safe from Covid is to have everyone around them in the hospital vaccinated. The science on that is incontrovertible.

I would bet these same employees have to get flu vaccines. This is no different, actually more important since Covid is more lethal. Health care workers have an obligation to protect their patients. When you talk about natural immunity are you suggesting we just let patients get infected and hope they don’t die?

Such BS. The people responsible are those abandoning their patients because they refuse to take an approved vaccine that has shown to be very effective. Those on the front line have done an incredible job, and the vast majority of those who show responsibility and get vaccinated to protect themselves and their patients will continue to do so.

I would concur, but it's just hard to get AFL guys in. I think I'll send an email to Peter King and see if he'll take up the challenge.