oldmanfan

He is responsible for this horrific withdrawal. He has to get all Americans and Afghan allies out. Period.

Actually when people get vaccinated it will help keep the spread down. Basic virology - you remove more hosts for the virus, you keep the virus from propagating. Vaccinated people may get breakthroughs but they get infected at lower levels than unvaccinated.

Let me respond. I think you make some good points here. But the flag comments are a good example of where I think our country is lost. As you say, the flag stands for our country, and our country stands for freedom. Thus, people are free to protest and one of the ways some have done that is to not stand and honor the flag when the anthem is played. Do I like it? No. But do I like that they have the freedom to do so? Yes. Yes you have the freedom not to get vaccinated. But you should want to in order to help your neighbor, to help the kids who can’t be, because in a public health crisis we are in this together. But you see the data. We are more concerned with me than us, and that tells me we have lost something fundamental to the character of the nation. My frustration is not just at one political side. When I get frustrated with the posts from obscure right wing sites it’s because all they do is slant things in a particular direction to win some kind of battle in their mind. Same for obscure far left posts. No one cares about the country anymore, just playing political games. They will completely change positions if they feel there is some political advantage and that is where the blatant hypocrisy comes in. Politicians and right wing folks did it daily withTrump, now the other side does it for Biden. Nero fiddled while Rome burned. That’s how I feel right now.

You post stuff from obscure right wing sites because it agrees with your views. Some of those are killing our country, as are some from the left wing fringe. I talk to plenty of people and the serious ones care about this country and how it has declined under different administrations from different political factions. Sorry but I won’t do that. I am OK personally but my country is not. I respect your opinions on things greatly, but our country is gone. And that is not something to joke about in my opinion. I’m tired of the jokes and the blatant hypocrisy of so many. I am hoping for the Bills to win it all, so I’ll be spending a lot more time on that side on the board!

Our country is in serious trouble. And you think it’s funny.

Go ahead and laugh if you want but our country has gone to hell

Looking back I really think Romney would have been a good choice. I'm leaning towards Larry Hogan now. Or I really wish Angus King would step up to the plate.

Yeah I see some. Unfortunately they aren't making the decisions that are ruining our country.

So who is conservative to you? DeSantis?

They are being drowned out by the nonsense. Our country was at its best when there were more liberal and more conservative individuals of each party.

I want our country to be our country again, and will not apologize for that.

I hope you're right. I really do. But I fear wehave gone so far over the edge we cannot retrieve the country. I live right in the middle of conservative middle America. The problem is there are no good conservatives or liberals anymore, just fringe elements destroying our country.

And you are weak, but act like a tough guy on the Internet to hide it. Folks like you want to see our country fail.

Thanks for providing perfect examples of what I'm talking about. We survived those very hard times because America was strong then, and because Americans back then realized there were things bigger than themselves. We got through those very hard times because we sacrificed for the greater good. Look at us today. We have a Secretary of Defense who says he can't extract our own citizens from Afghanistan. We have people around here who refuse to sacrifice for those around you and get a vaccine. Who don't give a damn about anyone other than themselves, not even their kids. And you are so myopic you can't even see that you've proved my point. America as a country, as the concept that made it the greatest country in the world, has given way. The folks that lived through the era from 1917-1941 would smack us all across the face and tell us, as a whole, to grow up and face our responsibilities. If they saw what's going on today they'd be ashamed. I've never done it and never will. I oftentimes wonder if historians will look back centuries from now (if there are historians or anyone around then) and say that social media was the beginning of the end of our society.

I hope you're right.

I would first put a lot of resources into developing an effective vaccine against RSV. And then follow the data; if there was a significant outbreak then I would absolutely have kids wear masks for prevention. For flu, yes I would mandate vaccines. I work or a health care organization, and everyone here must get the flu vaccine every year as a condition of employment. But from a public health perspective, you look at benefit and risk. The benefit to you and to the community at large from the flu vaccine far, far outweigh any risks associated with the vaccine. I don't make viral diseases political. I work in health care, I don't want people to die if they don't have to. Simple.

The truth hurts

Sorry, but there is no doubt about this. There are governors of certain states that are OK with putting people at risk to die. And the people who go along with them, and use their children as political pawns, are just as complicit.

Each year in the United States, RSV leads to on average approximately 58,000 hospitalizations1 with 100-500 deaths among children younger than 5 years old2 and 177,000 hospitalizations with 14,000 deaths among adults aged 65 years or older. As of today Covid has killed about 135 children less than 5 in the US, and there are increasing numbers of children in ICU beds right now. So I would dispute that RSFV is far more deadly to children. I advocate for vaccines because the science of vaccines has prevented millions of deaths and long term disease. The development of effective vaccinations is one of the great scientific and medical achievements of all times. You are absolutely correct that children, thank God, were not as likely, in fact far less likely, to die from Covid, and I advocated just a few months ago to just open schools up because they were at such low risk. But then the delta variant hit and it changed my perspective. In my experience, the kids overall adapt to the masks far easier than we adults do, except when parents use their own kids as political pawns as we're seeing now. Do I think vaccines should be mandated? Yes, for diseases that offer a high rate of death and disability for the country as a whole, and for which we have no treatments or cures. Look at the positive effect the polio vaccine, smallpox, measels and mumps vaccines have had for our society. I put Covid in that category. For other diseases that don't carry that kind of toll, don't think there should be mandates. Shingles, for example. I should get mine, but I haven't, and if I get shingles it affects me. If I choose to not get the Covid vaccine and I get infected, the data indicate I share it with on average 8 more people. So I have libertarian leanings on some things, but saving people's lives I don't. If we could quarantine off the idiot anti-vaxers and let Darwin do his work, fine. But we can't.

Turn on your goddam TV - they're showing it right now.

From what perspective? From a viral perspective, they are different viruses. But from how it shows the depths to which America has sank, it is a perfect comparison. The America of the 50's cared about things. They cared about their children, they put their children's well being above politics. There are literally politicians and just regular folk, some on this very board, who would rather see children die if it means they can cling to their political stance. Think about that - there are folks who would be OK watching their own child die if it means their political side claim claim some sort of bizarre victory. People believed in science back then too. They understood that back then, as well as now, people spent years in the education and training to become doctors and scientists because they felt called to eradicate disease. People understood back then that science is a process, and that when presented with data and facts you alter your approach to treatments as more data was obtained. Now, people think everyone who is trying to defeat Covid has some sort of sinister ulterior motive. People get on Facebook and plant crap like there are chips in the vaccines trying to control you. And they use that, again, as a way to try and kill more people to buttress a political philosophy. People used to care about each other back then, especially cared about the kids. They used to care about the truth, about their country. Not anymore. They only care about themselves. And before I get the "if you don't like it, leave crap", I'll say this. I'm not the one who hates this country. Maybe not you SCBills, but the people who do the crap that I talked about here. They hate this country, they hate what it stands for, and they should be the ones who get the hell out.

I am fiercely independent, and the article you cited about polio captures my emotions perfectly. America is dead because people who claim to be American have no idea what that means. They have no concept of country, of shared sacrifice, of anything other than me, me, me.

Can anyone be surprised?

I agree. Why in the hell the evacuations were not done first is absurd at best. Complete abdication of responsibility. For further comments I refer you to my post about how we no longer have an America.

I am Independent. You stand for weakness, people like you will allow our country to fail. I don't give a damn what you think Never have, never will. Biden has to get those people out of the country, and do whatever he has to in order to do so. if he does not he should have the decency to step aside.