oldmanfan

Quoting far right wing stuff as always. When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. The mandate for federal workers goes into effect September30. OSHA has to still write the directive for companies with over 100 employees.

I’ll take each in turn, but before I do I will state that science is rarely black and white. Science looks at data and arrives at consensus based on the data. It is not uncommon for scientists to debate on the meaning of specific data sets. Unfortunately, there are way too many people in our country that are ignorant, willfully or otherwise, about how science works and how theories and therapeutic approaches change as data is obtained. 1. Boosters: Biden announced that prematurely and was wrong to do so until the FDA thoroughly reviewed the data. They are doing so today. Some data especially from Israel suggest that boosters can be very effective especially in older individuals. 2. Natural vs. vaccine induced immunity. This needs to be studied further. Studies should be done as to how long immunity lasts in both groups, what antibody titers are developed by each and such. There are clearly some that get repeated Covid infections and some that do so after immunization. We need data on percentages of each and severity of each. 3. Masks: I am currently looking through a Medline search I did using the search terms Covid and masks. Over 2000 references came up. In reviewing the first 200 there are about 20 or so that show observational or laboratory data on mask effectiveness, plus several meta-analyses of mask studies. The vast majority (over 90%) show a mitigating effect of masks, helping prevent spread of aerosols or droplets which are the main source of transmission. Thus the preponderance of the evidence shows masks are helpful and it is far past time to quit arguing about it. 4. Masking children: I was in the camp of not doing so until the delta variant. The delta variant is much more infectious and many more children are being hospitalized now. The data suggest mortality rates in kids with delta is still low, due in part to their age and to advances in treatment strategies. The only protection kids under the age of 12 have is masks. My opinion: teachers and other school personnel should be required to be vaccinated, kids 12and up should be vaccinated. Kids should be in school with their friends learning and should be masked or not based on the local data such as vaccination status in a given community. Anecdotally, I talk to kids and they have less problems wearing masks that some parents, who use their children as political pawns to push an agenda. You ask which science is right, as if it can only be one way of the other. I’ll put this as kindly as I can; it shows you don’t understand the nature of science and research. The people fighting this have made it their life’s work to battle infectious disease. I am proud to know many of them. And our country and the world would be way better off banding together and following the science, rather that diving down conspiracy laden rabbit holes.

The public was given a chance to be responsible. Too many chose to be idiots.

No a scientist with 40 years experience in research, clinical care, and who sits on an actual FDA advisory panel. Folks like you who have turned a public health crisis into a political football have killed people.

You can use a historical control group of what the incidence of different conditions was prior to Covid and vaccinations. Now, as to long term effects: Historically the incidence of "long term" effects pf vaccines shows very, very minimal effects seen. The two that are most mentioned are Guillan-Barre syndrome and one time when there was something with polio. As for the GB events, GB syndrome is associated with viral infections and studies show that vaccination might raise the incidence by 1-2 cases per million vaccinations. The polio one was where a non-attenuated or inactivated virus got put into the vaccine pool. These kinds of adverse events were found within weeks, not years. The history of vaccination is clear in that there are no side effects seen years and years down the road. The Covid vaccines have been out there for months now and billi0ns delivered around the world. That data, as well as the clinical studies data done to get EUA and for Pfizer FDA approval, show minimal serious adverse effects, the most prominent the myocarditis and blood clots issues. That these very rare events (on the order of a handful per million vaccinations) were picked up shows the robustness of the monitoring systems used for the Covid vaccines. I know you will bring up the VAERS reporting system, so let's put that to bed now. The VAERS system is a voluntary reporting system where anyone who has received a vaccine can post a side effect. As for deaths, health care providers have to report any deaths from anyone who has received any sort of vaccination. With respect to Covid, they are reported (And one wonders whether false reports are filed by anti-vax individuals), and these reports then are required to have follow up by the CDC and FDA where case reports, death certificates and such are analyzed. When that follow-up has been done, there are extremely rare cases where it appears the vaccine may have directly contibuted to death. So bottom line is this: there is no data to support either the claim that there are long term side effects of the vaccines, nor is there data to support the contention that so many people are dying from vaccination. That is the science, that is the data, that is not the conspiracy nonsense being thrown around on social media.

Nah. You just learn to ignore the Chicken Littles who want to cut or fire everyone after a loss.

I work at the same. The issue is simple: get vaccinated to enter the stadium. If not, sell or give back your tickets.

I was gong to respond to the VAERS stuff but you have done so brlliantly here. I would add two things. One is that the FDA and the CDC are required to do follow-up on every one of the patients submitted via VAERS, and when they do they find the vast, vast majority of deaths are not due to the vaccine. Second, VAERS is voluntary and anyone can add some to the list, which some feel may include anti-vaxers who want to try and inflate numbers for their own purposes.

Pittsburgh played a helluva game on defense. Tip your hat to them.

This would be a good study to do.

We are in a public health crisis. Public as in all of us. We need to help each other out, and the best way to do that is for all of us to get vaccinated and deprive the virus hosts for it to propogate. This is basic virology. Watching the current situation, after just witnessing all the memorials for 9/11 and how the country came together, infuriates me.

Let's talk about long range effects here. The mRNA viruses are the mRNA, some salts and some lipids that help with solubility. What basic cell biology tells us is that, once the mRNA in the vaccine is read and the spike protein transcribed, the mRNA is rapidly degraded in the cell. The other molecules in the vaccine are naturally occurring. There is nothing from the chemical nature of the vaccine to suggest any long range effect should occur. In addition, the history of vaccines tells us that long term side effects are extraordinarily rare, and if seen they are picked up within weeks of vaccination, not years later. In fact, with the Covid vaccines being around for months now, we have seen a very small incidence of the myocarditis and blood clot side effects (on the order 0f 0.0002%). When you ask why folks should get vaaccinated , it's so you don't get sick and die. And because it will help all of us not get sick and die. One of the most troubling, unfortunate things with this pandemic is that it has shown the striking indifference of people to their fellow man. So I see an eyeroll to my post. Why is science so scary to some folks here?

I have done literature searches on Medline for articles on masks and Coivd. There are around 2500 references. Thus far I have looked through a couple hundred and found about 20 articles that are either observational studies, laboratory studies, or meta-analyses on the topic. Over 90%of these studies indicate a beneficial effect of masks to prevent spread, with effectiveness varying with the type of masks. While cloth masks for example are less effective than N-95, they still demonstrate a reduction in transmission of the droplets and aerosols responsible for spread. They help mitigate, and it seems clear that mitigate is not a word understood by those anti-mask or anti-vax. You are correct though that they could be worn more carefully, but that is cause for more education, not abandonment. When you make claims such as you've done above that are inaccurate, it hurts the ability to fight this pandemic. As for the India data, there is something to be learned there. My first guess would be that the delta variant has burned through the population quickly, and as the virus burns through the population at the back end you will see decreased infection rate. But we will have to see as the data is analyzed further what can be learned.

After one game. This article is an example of the drawbacks of having too many websites and podcasts and authors trying to drum something up to look different.

My norm for every game is I sit by myself in my basement with the Package on and watch the game. All alone because I scream so loud my wife refuses to be in the same room. I have a Tasker, Kelly, and an Allen jersey; always start the season with Tasker and change the next week if they lose. When I do this they hardly ever lose. If I have to be gone I record, make sure I don’t hear anything about the game all day, then treat it like it’s a live game when I watch the recording. And their record when I do that is also excellent. Last Sunday I had to travel and stopped on my way to take my daughter to her local Bills Backers bar, which she had not visited yet. Nice folks, good time, Labatts on tap. But there is no question they lost because I broke my routine. I’m back in the basement Sunday wearing the Kelly. I’m sure we’ll squish the Fish. Sorry for messing things up last Sunday.

Just another reality denier I see. They are going to need more time to check vaccination status.

Not if you want to see the opening kickoff.

Let's hope so. Basic virology: take away the hosts and the virus can't propogate.

True. And sad.

Well now. I have two daughters with what you might consider worthless degrees. One is music theater, and with the pandemic there have been no auditions for 18 months. But her degree program taught her skills such as resilience and creativity so she right now is working in a writing position where she makes very good money with full benefits, and has plans to go back to grad school so she can get her MFA and run a theater department or organization. The other is pursuing a degree in music therapy, which happens to be a very hot degree for those interested in health care.

I think I’d go vaccine. I would say for someone like you that your antibody titer should be measured. If high I would agree you likely don’t need vaccination.

You misinterpret the data. The delta variant can cause short term viral loads in vaccinated people. I’m going to get in the weeds a bit so bear with me. The virus can colonize the lining of the upper respiratory tract and multiply there, because even vaccinated people do not mount what is called a secretory antibody response, and antibody called secretory IgA. So for a short time vaccinated people can spread. But the time they can do so is much shorter than in unvaccinated, so you are still less likely to pass the virus if you are vaccinated. You point to a few well publicized breakthrough infections but those are exceptions and not the rule. People want to simplify answers to the enormously complex science of viral disease. Where you are wrong with the Russian roulette is that vaccinated people are far less likely to die from Covid. Far less. All the data from hospitals indicate that those in ICUs and morgues are over 90% unvaccinated. That is actual data. And that is because once the systemic immune system sees the virus in the vaccinated individual the humoral IgG response is very effective at neutralizing the virus. Unvaccinated people don’t get that response, and unfortunately many die. Many. Vaccinations have eradicated some diseases and allowed us to manage many more by inducing immune responses without causing actual disease. The Covid vaccines will do the same people f we all quit fighting the science. It is not. We take care of patients. We can’t bring diseases into the hospital and put patients at risk. Employers can mandate it, they’ve done it for flu and hepatitis for years now.

I got in late, correct. Got you. Non symptomatic people just need to stay home.

Glad you survived the infection. Unfortunately, to rely purely on natural immunity would mean you would have to play Russian roulette with people’s lives. Millions would die because their immune systems can’t attain the immunity. This is why vaccines have been one of the most significant advances in medical history.

There are Covid patients who can be managed in a regular unit with O2 supplementation, postural changes to assist breathing, and so on. You realize I work in health care? Perhaps you are causing confusion because you don’t know either the subject matter well or because you can’t express your thoughts clearly.