oldmanfan

No question finding effective treatments would help.

Over 40 years. You made the claim that far more people are harmed by buildup of bacteria on masks than from spread of Covid. Spread of Covid has caused round 650,000 deaths in the U.S. and millions in the country. Show me your data that says bacterial buildup on masks harm many more people than that. You make some outrageous claim, you have to have data to support it. Masks don't prevent Covid, they mitigate against the spread.

Ron White was right.

Really? Over 600,000 people have died from Covid. Show me your data or any study that says way more than that die from bacterial infections from the inside of a mask.

Posted this on the football side. Read it so you'll understand what's going on. Here is a commentary from a respected pathologist Dr. J. Stacy Klutts who explains Covid and why vaccinated folks can still carry the virus, why vaccines work, and such. It's the best summary I've seen. I am in a unique position to report on what is going on with COVID-19, particularly the delta variant and why it’s so dangerous, and how it interacts with the vaccines. I’m the Special Assistant to the National Director of Pathology and Lab Medicine for the entire Veterans Affairs system, with a specific role in advising on elements of COVID testing for the system. As such, I have a front row seat to all of the latest data since we use that information to make our national-policy decisions. So, here are a few important points that help explain why you should get vaccinated and wear a mask. I’ll do my best to stitch this all together so it makes sense: 1. Like Gorilla Glue. The delta variant (lineage B.1.617.2) has a particular collection of mutations in the spike protein (that knob-like projection you see in renderings of the virus) that make it extremely effective in attaching to human cells and gaining entry. If the original COVID strains were covered in syrup, this variant is covered in ultrafast-drying Gorilla Super Glue (industrial strength). 2. 1,000 times higher. There are two recent publications which demonstrate that the viral loads in the back of the throats of infected patients are 1,000 times higher with the delta than with previous variants. I can tell you from data in my own labs, that is absolutely true. We are seeing viral signals we never saw last year using the exact same assays. 3. Much more infectious. This much higher load plus the ultra “stickiness” of the delta strains for adhering to human cells makes it remarkably more infectious than previous strains. You may have heard of R0 (Pronounced R naught) which is, in a nutshell, the number of people to which an infected person would be expected to transmit the virus. Early versions of the virus had a 2 to 2.5 R0 value. So one infected person would infect two or so people on average. Delta has an R0 of about eight! In the infectious disease world, that’s almost unheard of. Chickenpox and measles are about all we have ever seen that spread that efficiently from human to human. This changes the story line completely from earlier in the pandemic and makes this surge, in many ways, like a completely different pandemic event. 4. Five days. There is another recent publication out of Singapore with data that confirms something we suspected. I will explain more about the “why” on this below when I talk about vaccines, but the gist is this: The viral loads in the throats of vaccinated persons who become infected with delta rises at identical rates as in unvaccinated persons, but only for the first few days. After five days or so, the viral loads in the vaccinated person start to quickly drop whereas those in the unvaccinated person persist. This key set of observations is important for several reasons relating to vaccinated persons serving as vectors for spread (see below). 5. Young people. This pandemic, Round 2, is primarily being observed in younger patients than in Round 1. Our children’s hospitals are even already filling up or full. Because of the delta viral dynamics, it is much more capable of causing severe disease in a larger swath of the population. You spew enough of any human pathogen on someone without immunity, and it’s not going to end well. This sets up very poorly for the beginning of the school year — which has already started in Florida — and it scares me. Check that. It is actually terrifying. I sure hope we have vaccines for the 5- to 11-year-olds soon. 6. Vaccines work! Speaking of vaccines. Are they working? Yes! They are absolutely doing their expected job. We know a lot about vaccines for upper respiratory viruses, as we have been giving the population one every year for decades (influenza). To explain all of this, I need to provide some biological context. When you get a vaccine as a “shot,” the “antigen” in the vaccine leads to formation of an antibody response. You probably knew that. What’s important, though, is that it primarily leads to a specific Immunoglobulin G (IgG) response. That’s the antibody type that circulates around in really high numbers in the blood, is located some in tissues and is more easily detectable by blood tests, etc. What that shot does not do is produce an Immunoglobulin A (IgA) antibody response to the virus at the surface of the throat mucosa. That’s the antibody type that could prevent the virus from ever binding in the first place. As such, in a vaccinated person, the virus can still attach like it’s about to break into the house, but it doesn’t realize that there is an armed homeowner on the other side of the door. When that virus is detected, the IgG beats it up and clears it before the person gets very ill (or ill at all). (Sidebar: Anyone ever had their kid — or themselves — get the “Flumist” vaccine as their annual flu booster? The idea there is to introduce the antigens at the surface of the throat mucosa leading to that IgA response that will prevent infection from happening at all. Sounds good and still has a place, but it isn’t quite as effective overall as the shot.) 7. Preventing disease and death. The COVID-19 vaccines are designed to prevent disease/death through that IgG response (though it does also reduce infections somewhat). How good are the vaccines at doing all of this with delta? The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has just released data addressing that very question. Punchline: They’re remarkably good! The vaccine shows an 8-fold reduction in the development of any symptomatic disease secondary to delta. For hospitalization, it is a 25-fold reduction. That’s 25 times! Remarkable. For death, it is also 25 times! This is a very effective pharmaceutical class when looking at overall efficacy toward the intended/expected purpose. When looking at the very tiny side effect profile, I’d personally consider it one of the best overall pharmaceuticals on the market in any class of drugs. 8. So, you’re vaccinated? First of all, a sincere, heart-felt thank you! But you may now ask, so why do I again need to wear a mask? We talked about disease, hospitalizations and death above, but what about infections themselves? The vaccines are now estimated to provide a 3-times reduction in infection. For reasons that I tried to make clear above, it isn’t surprising that the vaccine is less effective at preventing infection vs. preventing disease. We are indeed seeing detectable virus, at high levels, in asymptomatic, vaccinated persons when we test them prior to procedures, etc. We have a few that are mildly symptomatic, too. While we now understand that the virus fades from the back of the throat pretty quickly in a vaccinated person, we also know that an infected, vaccinated person can transmit this very infectious virus to others for at least a couple of days. So, as before, you are being asked to wear a mask to primarily protect others. We need you again to interrupt the transmission cycle of the virus, as you don’t know when you might be infectious. The vaccine alone cannot interrupt this cycle when there is a lot of virus in the community within unprotected persons. 9. What’s next? I live and practice in Iowa, and I see the tsunami wave on the horizon. It’s typical for respiratory viruses to begin in the southern United States (where it is hot and everyone clusters indoors in the air conditioning to escape the heat) and then creep north to affect those areas when it gets colder (and people go inside because it’s getting colder). If you live in the north and are not vaccinated, it is not too late, but it’s getting damn close. It’s also time to start wearing masks in public again (ugh...I hate it, too). Those of you in the south, particularly in Florida, know that the tsunami is already on your shores. If you weren’t already off the beach, you might be in trouble. However, if you are there and haven’t yet been affected, run like hell to metaphorical higher ground — get vaccinated, wear a mask. I beg of you, watch that wave and don’t ignore it. I have zero political agenda (I hate politics). I’m just a nerdy scientist and physician who loves you all, and I certainly don’t want to see a mass of my friends grieving — or dead — because I didn’t yell loud enough to get you and your families off that beach. So, run! (to your pharmacy ... driving is allowed). You don’t want any part of this thing without vaccine on board. Dr. J. Stacey Klutts is a clinical associate professor of pathology and clinical microbiology at the University of Iowa and is the chief of the Pathology and Laboratory Service for the Central Iowa VA Health Care System. He is the past president of the Academy of Clinical Laboratory Physicians and Scientists (ACLPS) and chairs the National VA Clinical Microbiology Council in addition to his national roles referenced above. This is adapted from a Facebook post with permission of the author. UP NEXT:Florida’s school mask wars put kids in the middle | Column Rc2catch

Honest to God, people refuse to understand the word mitigation. Cloth masks (again depending on the mask) help prevent spread, they do not completely block it, but they help. The data is irrefutable. Wearing masks is not evil. Yeah, I'd rather folks wear N 95s but the supply isn't there. The increase in RSV presumably reflects the lower rates seen during the pandemic as kids were quarantined and such. Now that society has opened up more the re is more likelihood of spread of these and other viruses.

I am ashamed of our country and our Allies. We have Americans and citizens of our Allies in country, and we are telling them we cannot react to a threat from Isis? We are caving in to the Taliban and getting out by the deadline because they say so? Nonsense. Put troops in there right now, get everyone out, and if the Taliban or Isis threaten or harm one hair on the head of one of our citizens you wipe them out. I understand wanting to get the troop presence out. I vehemently disagree with that policy, but I see the point being made. There is no excuse whatsoever to leave people behind because you're scared. What the hell happened to America being America?

I have done a Medline search and there are about 950 references when you enter Covid and masks as search terms. I have looked through the first 100, and there are 12 studies that directly address the question of mask effectiveness. All of them indicate a mitigating effect of masks, the effectiveness of which depend on the type of mask and how it is worn. You want to talk about cost vs. benefit, I agree. The benefit is that having masks on get our kids back into schools instead of doing on line learning like last year, and provide some mitigating effect. The cost I would suggest is not the actual wearing of masks (because they do not mean you breathe in CO2 and such), but that the kids feel depressed and such wearing them. I am also doing a search of articles on mental health in kids during the pandemic, and what I'm seeing is that there were in fact negative effects that were related to feelings of isolation because kids could not see their friends and family during the pandemic and because of on line learning. Anecdotally, I have seen kids interviewed, and I have talked to kids, and what they say is they have no problem wearing masks if it gets them back in school with their friends.

I think teams have brought in physicians. The Vikings the other day brought in Dr. Osterholm, a leading infectious disease specialist, to talk to the team and give them accurate information. And what did Cousins say? "It was what it was". I am sure the Bills have done the same, I am sure they gave the players accurate info (like the fact that the vaccine does nothing to affect your fertility among other things). And there are still guys like Beasley who get in their car with their driver's license, put on their seat belt after eating a breakfast that is probably provided by the nutritionists for the team, go to the stadium and get treatments if required from the Bills medical and training staff, and then stand up and yell that their freedom is somehow being violated because they'd rather listen to nut cases on the radio and on the Internet rather than listen to the medical and training staff that they listen to about everything else and follow the science that shows incredible effectiveness of the vaccines with extraordinarily small risk of side effects. The fans need to accept right now we're not going to win it this year because of this. We are going to lose very important players this season because of their willful ignorance.

I believe we have no shot at the Lombardi because of this. Sad.

You are wrong, you know you’re wrong, and you refuse to admit it. At least admit CRT has nothing to do with the DEI training most businesses now utilize as it helps them compete.

I'll keep saying this, but CRT is, first, a theory and as such can be debated and as such is not necessarily right on things. Second, CRT is not being taught in secondary schools. If you have a specific example of a secondary school system showing that CRT is part of their approved curriculum, show me and I'll stand corrected for the specific school system. But this constant drumbeat on CRT as if is being taught in every school system in the country is bull crap. What also is bull crap is equating CRT to other things like DEI and SEL. DEI seeks to make all peoples aware of the others concerns and histories, and as such seeks to bring people together, the exact thing those against CRT claim to want. SEL seeks to ensure that kids from different socioeconomic situations get the same shot at learning and has nothing to do with CRT. The Trumpists need to suck it up, quit trying to scare the American public, and actually try and win votes by formulating policies that the majority of voters want.

The booster is to up your immune system, and with the mRNA virus they can modify it quickly to hit new variants. Covid is the most harmful virus we’ve seen in years. We may not completely eradicate it but we can mitigate its effects strongly through vaccination. The folks you quoted are correct that as viruses mutate more they become less harmful and spread less. That does not appear to have happened with the delta variant, let’s hope that changes.

Let me clarify. The long term side effect thing is a straw man because the anti-vax crowd is saying there will be, as if it is pre-ordained. It is not, and the history of vaccinations and the biology of the mRNA vaccines indicate long term side effects are very, very , very small. I have already explained the biology of the mRNA approach. There is nothing in these vaccines that will stay in the body for long, and certainly nothing that would cause an adverse long term effect. To suggest there would be you would have to offer a cogent argument based on the actual biology and pharmacogrnics of the vaccine. No one has done so, because they can’t. Some drugs, very few luckily, have had unforeseen side effects even after FDA approval. But these generally work through different biochemical pathways than vaccines. Delta is Covid. It is a variant of the original virus that mutated. There is no reason to answer your other questions because I don’t think you have an adequate comprehension of science to allow you to grasp the concepts. Thanks for doing your part and getting vaccinated.

Agree on daily testing.

Facts are that the vaccines are incredibly effective and we’ve known that for months. Facts are that NFL policies strongly encourage players to do the smart thing. And facts are many do not, and that will adversely affect their team.

Mark my words. We are going to lose our ***** at a championship because a key player or two decides not to get vaccinated, and winds up missing games and causing others to as well. And it is avoidable.

Science suggests that as this virus mutates we will get boosters to deal with new variants, similar to the different flu vaccines we get yearly. The difference is that, because of the mRNA nature of the vaccines, you can sequence the viral genome nd quickly adapt the mRNA to the new variant. These vaccines are incredibly effective at preventing illness; over 90% is a very high effectiveness rate for a vaccine. You are not getting the exact same formula time and again. It may very likely be a common problem we have to deal with, like the flu. We may not be able to eradicate it like smallpox. But the vaccine effectivenesss is really good and should remain so.

The mRNA technologyhas been studied for decades, and now is being put to use. The mRNA vaccines consist of the mRNA and some salts plus lipid molecules that help solubilize the medication and have it enter the cells. Once the mRNA enters it uses the cell’s machinery to make the viral spike protein, which the body then mounts an immune response against. The mRNA is quickly degraded after being read. Contrary to some of the false information being spread, there is no change to your DNA, no change to your genome. The are no magic magnetic particles or Bill Gates microchips. There is nothing within the virus itself other than the mRNA molecule that would cause long term effects, and as explained above the mRNA won’t either. Vaccines with the mRNA started 8 months ago. Hundreds of millions have been given and very rare side effects have been noted. If there were going to be long term effects we’d see some evidence of that; we haven’t. People talk about thousands of deaths from the vaccine, and that is nonsense. The VAERS reporting system through the CDC has deaths reported from anyone who has been vaccinated for any reason. Any report has to then be reviewed by the CDC and FDA and when this is done an extremely small number of deaths can be attributed to the vaccine, with the very rare side effects noted above or hyper immune response presumably the causes. If one wanted to take on a conspiratorial tone, one could say the anti-vac crowd are filing false claims to make things look bad. I knew this would happen. The goalpost was the approval. Now that there is FDA approval the goalpost gets moved to complications. Since that is not tenable, it will be interesting to see where the goalpost gets moved next. Meanwhile hospitals in the South fill with non-vaccinated folks, children’s infection rates are going up secondary to increased viral spread. Darwin is having a field day.

Historically there are very few "long term" effects of vaccinations. One was with the polio vaccine and that was because they had a batch of attenuated/killed virus for the vaccine that were not killed off. Another was Guillan-Barrre with I believe a batch of flu vaccine; I'd have to check the specific vaccine. Otherwise, none. Problems with vaccines are b=generally caught within weeks of vaccination. It is actually a credit to the health care agencies that the very rare cardiac and blood clotting concernes with the Covid vaccines were picked up so rapidly. The long term complication argument is a straw man.

I appreciate your advice. As I indicated earlier I get worked up when it’s about kids, and kids are going to suffer needlessly because we have taken a public health crisis and turned it into a political football. There are people that would rather watch people die from Covid. That seems to me an inescapable conclusion. It is also why our Afghan policy for years, and this horrifically botched withdrawal, piss me off so much. Young girls in that country will now suffer greatly and it seems like we as a country don’t care. That sickens me. I look at the preponderance of the data. While delta is more highly infectious the data still show mortality rates are very low in kids. But with hospitalizations going up that may change. And there are psychological issues with keeping kids out of school not to mention an overall poorer educational offering. There has to be a balance. I advocate for making sure all that are eligible for vaccination be vaccinated to decrease overall viral exposure in the public at large, and for elementary school kids to wear masks to decrease exposure. I would also support frequent (daily) testing for kids. I believe those follow the guidelines favored by the CDC and other public health experts.

Kids in elementary school can’t get vaccinated.

I am active in my community advocating for masks to keep our kids in school this year. I am also trying to educate folks on vaccines and am advocating for teachers to be required to be vaccinated. Your silliness and inability to follow science is shown by wanting to cancel going outside. That is not in keeping right now with the science or recommendations based on that science. Children are wards of their parents. When parents willfully put their children in danger, would you advocate for protecting kids, or letting their parents do so? This is of course silly.

The border is in crisis and has been for a long time and kids should not be in cages. Period. Harris was put in charge of it, she needs to fix it. And a big part of that is getting the countries who abuse their people to straighten up and arresting those in this country who hire illegals. But you don’t want to talk about that. But you use this to deflect from your inanity over Covid. I am an independent, admittedly more liberal on social policies and more conservative on law and order on foreign policy. You are the rest of the Trumpists could give a damn about our country or it’s people. You care more about politics than people. You want kids to die so you can crow about your freedom to wear masks. You want women and children in Afghanistan to die or be enslaved because you crow about America and making America great, but you have no concept of what made it great. All you are is a jingoistic hack. Can people willingly choose to break the law? Yes. Will they get arrested? Yes. You are completely ridiculous.

You do this all the time. When people post material directly showing you’re wrong it’s because they somehow misconstrued your point. Try learning how to communicate your ideas.