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Just how poor of a man are we talking about here? I mean you must be talking about a guy who lives in a refrigerator box, wears newspapers for clothing and eats left over garbage right?

Glad you found it valuable! Good show that Cornell 77

Archive.org is also a fantastic site for free, yet consented music downloads. If you are at all a fan of the Grateful Dead, archive.org is one of your best friends...

Right, point taken. Now if the example used was the early nineties Bills D and not the late nineties (washed up Bruce) D, I would totally agree that they had a "knack" (for lack of a better term) for shutting teams down late in games, even when statistically speaking they were not among the best defenses. I have always been one to point out (especially on this board where it is easily forgotten) the effect of pressure generated from your offense on an opponent and what it does for your defense. To have a lead , and a threat to score again or run the clock out will really put your opponent in that one dimensional mode where you can play coverage over the top and let your D linemen (and LB's at times) pin their ears back a get after the QB with no respect for the run. In fact , a perfect example would be looking at our 2003 D and comparing to our 2004 D. They were both number 2 at the end of the year but were so much better in '04 with turnovers/sacks because the offense actually had leads in games and Willis was a threat to run the clock. Obviously there were also some personell changes that helped with this , but I think you would see what I'm saying...

Ahh I see. If I think about it I had a lot of confidence in them too. I do remember always being a bit concerned though that we were not getting turnovers, as good as they were. Overall I believe we are comparing two different philosophies here, and thus comparison becomes somewhat futile. On one hand you have a 3-4 defense that rarely blitzes or takes too many chances, and never gives up a deep play. On the other you have a complicated scheme based 4-3 who will blitz at any opportunity to force the offense into a position of weakness or indecision. They are certain tradeoffs that come with both defenses. I guess it comes down to preference....

Not sure how this relates to my point that you quoted me on. What I do see is you using a single drive from games to prove general broad-sweeping points about our defense and I am using whole games.

Respectfully , there is no way they were even close to equally responsible. The sack/fumble resulted in a direct 7 points and the INT right into the hands of the MLB led to 3 (and only 3 because of the strong defense), and the fumbled punt return led to more points. Were talking about three starts inside the 25 for Pitt here. And this somehow stacks up against one poor drive given up later in the game with one busted play? Realistically this is not an evenly weighted comparison. Despite our disagreeance here DM, I love your posts

Sorry I just don't see it that way (especially your Jax reference). All defenses give up plays or drives here and there. We gave up fewer plays / yards / however you want to measure it .... than 30 other NFL teams. YPP was among the league lowest, Turnovers #1, yards #3, Sacks #3. Even 3rd down % (which does need improvement) was like #13. There was no defense this past season that you could not say the same thing about. This is the NFL and there is another team on the field with talented players and coaches as well. If you think the D in the Steeler game was even equally responsible for the loss with the O, then I'm wasting my time even debating this with you.

Point well taken, although our D was more than adequate against every team we played other than New England. So I guess NE is the only good team we played? The late nineties D worked as a base defense with no frills, but never came close to generating the amount of turnovers to be considered a great D. I'll take some risk/reward over that strategy personally.

Some fans just need something to B word about....Enjoy

I like Jaws, though I guess I wouldn't call him a columnist...

This should be ammended to read: "The rest of the league is built on "me-first" guys. The Pats are built of players of a totally different caliber." There's no need to fish for obscure answers here folks, as elequently presented as they may be. We simply need better production from our offense in order to become the team we all hope to be... (specifically the QB and O-line). Our defense is as good as it has ever been, and as close to dominant as any realistic fan could ever hope for. We excelled in points given up, yards, turnovers, sacks, yards per play, etc etc. Our Special teams is now near the top of the league as well. Let's keep it simple here. We need better production from offense in order to improve on 9-7.

I'm with you there. They gave up the one late drive that hurt, but were solid other than that.

Very True... I also believe though that the Defense (or any defense for that matter) plays a lot better when it's offense can produce a first down in the 2nd half and not give up the ball in it's own end of the field.

I appreciate this thread and the time spent with the post but re: the defense I liken this thinking to searching for a tiny pebble on a beach when you can get your result by simply finding a large rock (IE fix QB and OL). I've stated before that I think any team should be extremely careful before making the Pats into a " model" for their franchise. I really think it's a unique situation that cannot easily be duplicated.

They way I've seen it, PW is the lighter one between he and Adams (my guess would be @ 340-350, but not entirely sure ) He's definitely smaller than Sam though, although that's not saying much. Pat still plays with good legs , a great motor, and a feel for the play that is about to unfold before him. He is i bit less spectacular than SA at this point, but very consistent....

I definitely don't expect both PW and JJ to be gone. In fact I think it would be more likely that they both stayed than both gone. Most likely scenario is one stays, one goes... Other than that, I could see most of what you say happening next year.

4 keys to beating the Pats 1- Minimal or no turnovers 2- You must run to create balance (as mentioned, even if it is not "working") 3- Test their coverage deep (easier said than done) 4- Get middle pressure (not outside) on Brady. Seems like alot to ask but I have seen no other way to beat them.

I say Moss will be a Raven.

Glad I didn't bet, because I would have picked the Pats...

Sadly for me but honestly, the most amazing thing about that last play (the TD) was that Belichick knew before hand what was going to happen. Did anyone see him before the snap?

You gotta hand it to TO tonight. He's made some big plays and has easily outdone anyone's expectations...

They'll give it to Brady unless he throws a pick on their last possession.

Thread killer

Paul did the halftime show righteous...