34-78-83

Ok well that cleared things up nicely didn't it? btw. Player for player, regardless of team and QB performance and team influenced results, I don't see more than 10 players at WR in the league that I'd rather have. That's just me though...

Agreed. I Loved Wiley as a personality, but his production since he left town (oddly much like many a former Bill ) has dwindled since his departure...

Iddy Bitty Hint: I don't think AKC is trying to argue that EM is a poor WR here...

And reality strikes again! Bottom line kids, ALL stats should be taken with a grain of salt and should only be offered to support an argument, not to make one. Joey G cannot hold Em's jockstrap, any way you slice it...

No statistic can define a #1 WR's ability to take pressure off of the rest of an offense by taking away prep time and drawing double teams and allow other players (like #2 Wr's) to flourish. I love Evans, but I'm not ready to see him as the #1 and have Moulds off the team. Moulds has already said he's willing to restructure...

Makes sense....

Well I guess some fan expectations have come to exceed the possibilities that exist within reality. To agree with a measuring stick statement like " merely good enough to get by with" regarding this Bills 2004 defense is simply beyond me, whether looking statistically, visually, or any other way re: this defense. Unless the team that wins the Superbowl is Pittsburgh, that team will have an inferior defense to ours, any way you slice it.

you are right. I believe it was 13th.

Thats funny I was going to cite the Cincy game as an example of the opposite. Look a little closer and you'll see that their passing game was completely and utterly shut down. Kitna had plenty of experience in the offense not to be used as an excuse. The week before , that offense amassed over 430 yards vs. Baltimore, a dominant defense.

Em did say he was willing to restructure already, and I hope you re-review some of the games to atleast see the affect he has on defenses. Again, not trying to sway your point in this thread, because I agree with you on that.

Being in the top 5 in virtually all measureable categories that a defense can have over the course of a 16 game season simply cannot be very misleading, no matter how you look at it. Your argument would have been met with a lot more approval last season

Well if anything, please take into account (and I know I'm off your main point) that I was able to see the whole field by attending the Miami, Cleveland, Jets, and Pitt games and saw the Safety on EM's side roll coverage over him creating double teams on consevatively no less than 85% of all pass plays run by the Bills. This should speak volumes as to what the true NFL evauluators think of the man. I do agree with your frustration on the drops though....

AKC, as discussed previously I know you're trying to prove a point here (and you're doing it successfully for the most part) but I still fret to think that you would see EM as anything less than a top 15-20 WR in this league. Even if only based on the schemes implemented by defenses against the Bills.

K

Where is the choice for : "It should be an open competition" ?

You seem to enjoy it as much as I

Believe me son, it bothers me to no degree. In fact , I thoroughly enjoy arguing with chumps like you. It's a big part of the reason I spend time here as pathetic as that really is. BTW the meaning is not hidden, you just don't seem to understand it as it was typed. Everyone has a different perspective, whatever. Your constant arrogant underhanded responses to posters is more what got me going, right or wrong. But hey, I've been there too...

The insults , as always for me, were in response to your oh so cleverly hidden insults not only to me but to countless other posters on this board and no, you still don't understand the point based on your explaination. Do not try to pretend here that the insult parade started anywhere but with yourself.

On the surface' date=' that sounds like a good statement. But it doesn't hold much water when you think about it. Teams are more than one person (which is the point you tried to make, but it didn't quite work). Again, they have stronger players and weaker players - and some times the stronger players can carry the load for the weaker players. Teams can, and often do, win in spite of certain players. Take Mike Pucillo for example. He hurt the team more than he helped it when he was a starter, and yet we won a few games with him in. Were they because of him or in spite of him? It's not as magical as "well, if we won, then everyone did good; if we lost, everyone did bad." Sorry. But don't feel too bad, a lot of Stadium Wall posters have a hard time grasping this. [right']198239[/snapback][/right] Looks like you didn't even grasp what I was saying there smartass I was refering to posters who contradict themselves. Also I pointed out "when said player contributes to a win" which is not in all cases. My point was made loud and clear for someone with comprehension skills. Spare me your "don't feel too bad" garbage especially when you can't even comprehend the point I made.

That was priceless Fezmid! Maybe it should be stickied

Thanks for the well thought out post AKC. It's a good read and perspective regardless of whether one agrees with it or not. The bottom line determining factor here on TBD as I have seen it that clearly reveals those who have a personal grudge against DB or any other player for that matter is - When said player contributes to a loss they take the heat AND when said player contributes to a victory they are either not mentioned at all or were somehow just "along for the ride" while the team won in spite of him. Easiest way to pick 'em

Clapton's version of "While my guitar gently weeps"

hmmmmm 3 starting O-lineman injured last season for Pitt.... Ooops that opens up a whole new can of worms

We win as a team, we lose as a team. There are always certain individuals that play stronger roles in team losses than others and all of them are fair game for criticism at times. This is the way I personally try to evaluate the team at all times. Sometimes opinions can turn out to be wrong, but there should be no players who go blameless when their time comes.

Tom, it's an assumption any way you look at it. I've been in a couple of locker rooms full of immaturity and questionable judgement but none of that ever got in the way of TEAM. That's not to say that it never could, just that it is an "onside kick" of assumption on your part if you will, and I'm sure you won't