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Others knew better I guess I get sucked in a lot easier when it comes to music BTW, that's cool if you don't "get it".

I don't read a single guitar mag, but thanks for your concern. If ,again, you were capable with reading comprehension you would see that I have absolutely no qualms with anyone's opinion re : Jazz or any other type of music. You simply lumped these two acts into your own nice little stereotypical category in your head. And then you went beyond that and tried to back up your opinion with musical falsities and assumptions, which can be argued objectively, no opinion involved. You simply don't MUSICALLY know what you're talking about in that rant you began with. Personally, I don't enjoy "Straight ahead" jazz and much more enjoy a rock based environment with a fusion of jazz, blues, funk, and even blue grass. But that's me... If you really care I have been playing for 23 years and have covered the spectrum from Slayer and Metallica to Clapton, Santana, Paul Simon, John Lee Hooker, Genesis, Chet Atkins, DJ Logic, John Scofield, Muddy Waters, BB King, Herbie Hancock, Yes, Zeppelin, Alicia Keyes, AcDc, Robert Cray, Tori Amos, Bruce Cockburn, Mark Knopfler, DMX, David Gilmore, and many others as my influences (not much Soul there ). I have plenty of recorded Studio and live material available that I'm sure you'd love to tear apart. Just say the word... There is no "some real music".. That's half the point here now isn't it?

The drugs or the "dendelion" ?

Wait, SDS is the Emperor, not Yoda... right?

SDS gave me the cheat sheet

Wait, you forgot the sarcasm qualifier

Thanks brotha Have you seen the fun I'm having over in the music thread?

Would this be an opportunity to cash in my "freebie" obtained from the football pool?

Oh man If that's the case not only am I jealous of La BillZ but I have become a "victim"

Nate had by far his best season as a Bill last year, was TD's first major pick, and has made his way into the top 3 or 4 corners in the AFC both as a cover guy/ playmaker and as a tackler. Some people simply can't get by that one infamous play in the Jacksonville game I suspect. I do agree and forsee a fair amount of difficulty in retaining him after this season, but to let his services go now to me would be premature and possibly somewhat foolish. I suppose there's always a "right price" for a player, but while I like Ty Law quite a bit, I wouldn't think this to be a sound move.

You are clueless dude. The reference was specifically to Phish first off. Reading comprehension helps. Simplified 9th and 7th partial bar chords?(Partial bar chord? Interesting concept..) Nice try ... did you pick up your guitar book for that stab in the dark or just dust off your Ingwe Malmstein Tabs? A quick listen of most any '73 or '74 era show or anything off the Blues for Allah album will reveal the jazz elements that pertain to the dead (which again wasn't my main reference). Maybe you missed such examples in many of their songs such as (and this will be boring for non-musicians) : - Altered meter based songs, phrases and jam sections such as 7/8, 11/8, 5/8. - Incorparation of whole tone scalar playing over (non "simplified") major 7/9 chords. - Modal incorporated outside playing - passing from a Dom chord to a minor chord a whole step away by use of a raised diminished scale. - Frequent use of relative keyes amongst all band members -Call and response techniques - Dynamic , reactive playing - Free form percussion based experimentation - Use of "1+2" scales made famous by Jazz greats like Larry Coryell. Sounds a lot like Jazz elements to me ... And notice I didn't even go to Phish, who used 10 fold the Jazz elements that the Dead used. You're barking up the wrong tree man. As many have said if you don't like the stuff, that's fine and respectable but do not try (a feeble attempt as it was) to discredit the musicality that existed among these bands with false claims and when it's very clear that the respected international musical community thinks otherwise. I apologize for a lack of chivalry in this matter but feel free to call it a "sore spot" for me. There are other people out there including many who have yet to make an opinion on performers such as this and they should have the right to here the truth in order to give a fair assessment. Now if you'd like to discuss the "jazz elements" of Phish, let's roll.

Ok I'm jealous... What sort of dem 'dere lures have you been usin'?

This is simply not true (musically speaking), especially with phish. Not one of the bands you mentioned (which I love btw) ever incorporated ANY elements of Jazz into their arrangements. Jazz is by far the most complex form of musical understanding and performing that currently exists (involving both improvisation and technical skill). Classical would be a close second (involving technical skill without improvisation). Phish used many jazz elements in both their song structures and "jams". I'll remind you again also , I absolutley love Zep, Floyd , and Sabbath. As far as what YOU like, that is personal preference and nobody can argue with that.

While these bands you list are all bands that I love, you are simply making yourself look ignorant by mentioning "far superior" , etc. when you compare apples to oranges. None of those bands did "collective" improvisation, which is what the Dead and Phish both did. Contrary to beliefs of many, the "jams" are not long guitar solos. They are collective interaction and improvisations by the whole group as a unit. Most ears do not even realize that but at the same time, cannot be blamed for not noticing. Now whether you like it or not is not relevant here. In the Music world, there are many highly regarded artists across ALL genres ( including Rock, Jazz, Country, Folk, Bluegrass, Funk ) that recognize(d) these bands (GD and Phish) for not only their talent and creativity, but their uniqueness and ability to be highly successful doing everything in a non-pop underground sort of manner. I'll add that in the case of Phish, if you break it down to the level of individual players (an area where maybe there CAN be some comparison), there isn't an abundance of players in the world at each position that are more adept players. (like them or not)

LG - I'll agree CB - Strongly disagree as Vincent is and always has been very capable and now fills in at Safety well. McGee is also going to be a pretty good corner. TE: Wasn't as big a need when they got Campbell considering the offense they used. Is a need now WR : Hello Lee Evans.... Josh Reed was highly touted by all when drafted and was considered a steal in the 2nd round. All you're using is hindsight. That's an easy copout. LT : Irrelevant because this is still an open case.

Exactly Need : QB (at the time it was a HUGE need) .... answer: Paid for Drew Need : ILB (due to Cowart injury) ... answer : Fletcher Need : OLB ... answer: TKO Need : Safety .... answer : Milloy etc....etc....

Let's see 5 years, 20 mil from the Ravens... What exactly was the "boatload" offer from NE 5 years, 25 mil ? Yeah what a blockbuster ...

I thought that Jennings was a very good player when on the field. He was quite visible in the community and always spoke his mind and didn't give you player speak. He's also a pretty funny/ witty guy for a big ole tackle... I'll miss him but agreed with most that the price was not right to retain him.

That doesn't make much sense to me as a replacement would generally be a younger or equivalent player, but I suppose it's possible. One thing unique (for a Patriot) that Law has going is that he has already made his money. The Pats have given the man some ridiculous jack already.

If Law somehow came off of his cloud of financial expectations I would absolutely LOVE having him as a Bill. Talk about a playmaker. It doesn't get much better at his position. Obviously he's on the down side but still played at an extremely high level prior to the injury. I'll always remeber that in Moulds' hey day, Law was the ONLY cb that could shut him down essentially for most of a game.

Including this little nugget: "just for the folks that insist the 9er's paid to much for jonas......."

mmm hmmm. Implications are sometimes just as good as opinions.

For an intelligent poster you sure like to beat your dead horses don't you? I thnk we're all clear on your stance at this point.

Too much age and lack of speed at WR...

I'm a little bothered that there wasn't much of an attempt (on the surface atleast) to keep the guy in a Bills uni, as he is a very, very good player. To me that offer wasn't much superior to ours, and I guess the home discount was a false promise after all. Good luck to Pat. Glad he's in the NFC.