jwhit34

Everyone has mentioned the best ones. Hall of Famers + Allen: Bruce Smith, OJ, Allen, Thurman Thomas, Joe D, Billy Shaw, Andre Reed, Jim Kelly. That's 8. Bennett, Talley, Moulds, Smerlas and Hull are probably the next ones because of their combined longevity, excellence and value to the team. Smerlas should be a borderline HOF veterans committee consideration. He was even T5 for DPOY once and I think 3-4 All Pros and 5 or so Pro Bowls. We're at 13 The last two I would put in the group are Tasker and Kemp. Unique players without the stats of others. Tasker redefined special teams players and Kemp was the leader on the 2 AFL championship teams. That leaves a lot of guys out but that's how I would put together the list. The one I would question the most is Kemp but fairly evaluating QBs from that era is difficult. Look at the stats for Unitas, Starr and Namath, but they all meant a lot to their teams. The 3 I think of that would almost certainly would have been in strong consideration for the top 15 if not for injury would be Robert James (who you could make a case for sneaking in at 15 or instead of Bennett or Talley), Sam Cowart and Jerry Butler, in that order. I think Cowart would have been better than Bennett and Talley

If you think that's challenging, the Oklahoma City Thunder (roster of 15) have Jalen Williams and Jaylin Williams.

OKC is ahead of the curve in the NBA. The collective bargaining agreement signed 2 years ago instituted a de facto hard cap. The NBA "cap" has never been a hard cap, there are all sorts of exceptions. A few of them: 1. The so called "Bird exception" allows teams to circumvent the cap and sign their franchise players to max contracts which exceed what other teams can pay. 2. Mid-level exception - veteran contracts that count less against the cap (allows vets to chase rings). 3. Trade exception - I don't know all the details, there are all sorts of rules regarding contract values with trades, but there are trade exceptions. The CBA has always had a luxury tax provision in it. By using all the exceptions, you could go over the cap but if you exceeded it by a certain amount, you had to pay a luxury tax. The more you exceed, the more punitive. With the new CBA, they instituted what is referred to as "the second apron". All the cap rules apply, but if you exceed the 2nd level over the cap (the 2nd apron), the consequences are much more severe. You are limited in trades, the financial penalties (luxury tax) are extreme. Teams really try to avoid the 2nd apron, and they essentially have more of a hard cap now. Compare that back to NFL who has a hard cap. Managing rosters are more straightforward but as shown by the Bills (and I would say Chiefs, Eagles and Ravens), if you have a franchise QB, building a deep, solid roster will make you a perennial contender. So the Bills formula is definitely working in the NFL, Back to the NBA and the Thunder: They purged their roster years ago of Harden, Durant and Westbrook (and a few others) and their GM, Sam Presti, stockpiled loads of picks. But the biggest deal was when they traded Paul George for Shai-Gilgeous Alexander and 5 draft picks. After years of losing, they now have a roster that is incredibly deep, and I think they have 7 first round picks in the next 3 or 4 drafts. But the crown jewel was getting SGA in the George trade. It will be interesting to see how they manage the roster in the coming years, they will be able to keep SGA, Chet Holmgren and probably one other (Jalen WIliams) but a lot of the rest of the roster spots are made up of interchangeable parts. With all the picks, they will be able to seed the roster with cheap, value players. SGA is the Thunder's Josh Allen. The Thunder do play hard, they play amazing defense which is a reflection of their coach, who is excellent. With that many talented players, requiring them to play great D is easier and rewarded with playing time. They also have 2 of the best defensive players in the game in Luc Dort and Alex Caruso (Dort starts, Caruso comes in off the bench). So I can see some of the similarities but there are some differences. OKC may beat the Bills to the first team with a title, they look tough to beat.

By 2027 the starters will be Benford, Hairston, Strong, Hancock and Bishop. Lewis and Ingram will not make the team. Hamlin's $700+K dead cap is nothing, remember MVS was I think $2 million. And remember OJ Howard. On the 53: Benford, Hairston, T Johnson, White, Strong, Jackson, Rapp, Bishop, Forrest, Hancock. If they keep 24 on offense (2 QB, 4 RB/FB, 9 OL, 3 TE, 6 WR) and 3 ST that leaves 26 for D. With the 2 suspensions, they can get away with 10 DL, 10 DB, 6 LBs. The roster challenges start when the suspended players come back.

Landon Jackson's vertical jump is 40" and this guy is 30.5" also a foot longer in broad jump.

The two UB guys, Lewis and Ingraham, are probably gone. Codrington too. Hancock and Strong in. With the 2 DL suspensions, they could still go 10 DL to start with and more DBs. Then when 2 suspended return, let 1 DL and 1 DB go. Of course, injuries could be a big factor, will be juggling roster by then.

Before they get to the Bills' picks 170, 173 and 177: On offense - looks like 21 spots are locked up - 2 QBs, 4 RB/FB, 4 WR, 2 TE, 9 OL (frequent visitors know the names). Special teams - 3 (Bass, Ferguson and a P) On offense, 1-2 WR, 1 TE and they are done. At most, that's 27 Offense/Special Teams. Defense has a lot of roster-worthy players: 6 DT: Oliver, D Jones, Carter, Sanders (r), Walker (r), Ogunjobi (suspended) 6 DE/Edge: Rousseau, Bosa, Epenesa, Solomon, Jackson (r), Hoecht (suspended) 4-5 LB - Bernard, Milano, Williams, Ulafoshio, maybe Andreesson 5 CB: Benford, T Johnson, White, Hairston (r), D Jackson 4 S: Rapp, Bishop, Hamlin, Forrest They like Cam Lewis (S or slot CB) Hoecht and Ogunjobi are not on roster for first 6 games so that alleviates the crunch when they cut to 53. So there is initially room for 1-2 players. But at some point, they cannot roster 12 on DL. WR, TE, LB to draft. Trade Epenesa? Solomon would not have trade value yet.

Ignore the rounds, they gave up 56, 62 and 109 for 41, 72 and a 7th.

The roster seems more set than most years, my guess at pretty much roster locks: QB (2) - Allen and either Trubisky or White RB (3) - Cook, Johnson, Davis FB (1) - Gilliam OL (9) - Dawkins, Edwards, McGovern, Torrence, Brown, SVPG, Grable, VanDemark, Anderson TE (2) - Kincaid, Knox WR (4) - Coleman, Shakir, Palmer, Samuel Total offense: 21 DL (9) - Rousseau, Bosa, Epenesa, Soloman, Hoecht, Oliver, Jones, Carter, Ogunjobi LB (5) - Milano, Bernard, Williams, Andreessen, Ulofoshio CB (4) - Benford, T Johnson, Jackson, Ingraham S (5) - Rapp, Bishop, Forrest, Hamlin, Lewis (swing S/CB) Total defense: 23 K - Bass, Punter (Camarda or other) LS - Ferguson KR - Codrington Total special teams: 4 Total roster: 48 Open Spots: 5 - TE3, WR5, CB2, LB6 or DL10, one other (WR6, DL10-11) The Bills have 10 draft picks, based on this 5, maybe 6 make it (there are always surprise vet cut or two). Current picks are 30, 56, 62, 109, 132, 169, 170, 193, 176 and 206. Normally I do not favor trading up, but many of these late round picks will be cut candidates and probably drafted too high to get back on the practice squad. Using the trade value chart, I would try to make the following trades: Trade picks 109, 170 and 173 (123 points) for #94 (124 points) Trade picks 132 and 176 (64 points) for #115 (64 points) Trade picks 169 and 206 (33 points) for # 147 (33 points) They would end up with a 1st (30), 2 2nds (56, 62), a 3rd (94), a 4th (115) and a 5th (147). Draft priorities CB, DT that can play right away, WR. Draft a TE to compete with Davidson for TE3. If they made these trades the 5th rounder screams DB they always draft one late and try to develop. That pick could bump either Lewis or Ingraham. I didn't list Spector, maybe he makes it, maybe they take a LB in draft to upgrade LB6.

The projection has 49 of 53 spots taken. Most likely they keep only 2 QBs, and Spector and Davidson are not sure things, so realistically there are only 7 open spots. They have 10 draft picks, 7 in the first 5 rounds. The 6th rounders have a lower chance of making the team, and probably less than 50% chance of clearing waivers. This would seem to strongly indicate that they will use later round draft picks to move up in the earlier rounds. Current picks: 30, 56, 62, 109, 132, 169, 173, 177, 204, 206. Either move up in rounds 2 (56, 62) or 4 (109, 132) or trade later picks for '26 picks (trading a 5th or 6th this year for a 4th or 5th). It would be nice to get 5 picks in the top 100-110 which seems very possible.

Agree with most of the points made. Two other points: 1. It is super nice that the team now has players like Bernard, Rousseau and Shakir that are drafted and developed players and it isn't a matter of should they be retained/signed it is what is the right value. 2. The cap is being managed well so that when it is time to give out 2nd contracts to good players they are in a position to do so without going through a crazy cap moves to be able to do it. In these instances, they are actually saving on the cap and the extensions enable them to do other things.

Guess the RB based on the past two years' stats: RB Rush Yds Rec Yds Total TDs 1 2,357 833 31 2 2,134 579 18 3 2,131 703 24 4 2,050 685 24 5 2,097 404 16 6 2,078 453 14 7 2,084 549 11 #1 is clearly a cut above the others. If you use 34 games (I didn't adjust for games missed) then #s 2-7 averaged between 74-83 total yards per game, so really no difference at all. There is wide disparity in TDs, and for most of them they varied a lot year-to-year. The reveal: #1 is Jahmyr Gibbs. He is great, imagine if he didn't split time with Montgomery. Most people on this board probably can guess which one is James Cook in no more than 2 guesses. Knowing his 2024 TDs is a dead giveaway. Cook is #3 Joe Mixon is #4 #2 is James Conner #5 is Chuba Hubbard #6 is Najee Harris #7 is Tony Pollard What's the point? Outside of Gibbs, these are not top tier RBs and their stats are essentially the same except for the TDs. Some have played with pedestrian QBs at best (Hubbard, Harris, Conner), Pollard split time in Dallas 1 year and played on an awful TEN team, which leaves Mixon and Cook. Cook is a really nice player but he is not super distinguishable from the mid-level RBs in the league.

This could be a very unique offseason in terms of roster building for the Bills. I will break down into groups and positions: Under Contract, Roster Locks (barring trades) - 36 total QB (2) - Allen, Trubisky (outside chance of Mike White) RB (2) - Cook, Davis WR (3) - Shakir, Coleman, Samuel TE (2) - Kincaid, Knox OL (9) - Dawkins, Edwards (though Joe Marino had an interesting take on releasing him), McGovern, Torrence, Brown, Grable, Anderson, VanPran Granger, Vandemark DL (6) - Oliver, Rousseau, Epenesa, Solomon, Carter, Jones (could cut and save a little but $7M cap hit) LB (4) - Milano, Bernard, D Williams, Ulofoshio (don't think they give up on 5th rounder yet) DB (5) - Taron Johnson, Benford, Rapp, Bishop, Elam (contract fully guaranteed would be $4.5 cap hit if released) K (1) - Bass LS (1) - Ferguson Returner (1) - Codrington Free Agents Highly Likely to Return (3) WR (1) - Hollins RB (1) - Ty Johnson FB (1) - Gilliam Punter (1) Either Martin or Camarda That leaves 13 spots, which probably break down as follows: WR - 1 TE - 1 DL - 4 probably 2 edge and 2 DT LB - 1 or 2 CB - 2 S - 2 That's 11 or 12, could see a WR6, the 6th LB would be #53 or some other position. Players under contract that have logged meaningful playing time that could fill the 13 open spots: C. Lewis B. Spector J. Ingram D. Smoot (void year) V. Miller Q. Morris is a restricted free agent so he could return. I think they move on from at least Smoot and Spector. Consensus opinion is that Von Miller will be released. There are probably around 10 open roster spots, which is far fewer than recent years. Factoring in that they currently have 8 draft picks and probably will get 2 comp picks, rookies will fill most of the remaining spots. If the comp picks end up in the 5th round, they have 7 in rounds 1-5. Those guys are making the team. They will sign some free agents, probably at least 5-6. Maybe not big names, but they always sign a bunch. So the roster will probably not be a big mystery this year. So what will Beane do? I think it can go one of 3 ways: 1. No big changes, rely on the draft to continue to build depth and manage the cap. Roster 7-8 picks and fill in the rest with free agents. 2. Since there are not many openings, trade some excess picks to move up in the 1st and 2nd round and have a better chance at landing a high impact player. 3. Trade a good player or two (Rousseau, someone on OL, D. Williams) along with picks to land a big time player like Garrett. It's pretty amazing to think the OL will essentially be the same for 3 seasons in a row, with the exception of a position switch (McGovern) and Edwards (who was OL #6) in and Morse out. People looking for substantial change will probably be disappointed. The good news is that there are still a lot of players who have not hit their ceiling yet. At a minimum, I'd say Shakir, Torrence, McGovern, Brown, Coleman, Kincaid, Rousseau, Benford, Bishop.

Coordinator churn is a fact of life in the NFL. Current offensive coordinators by year hired: 2025: 13 2024: 7 2023: 8 2022: 4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NFL_offensive_coordinators Defensive coordinators by year hired: 2025: 11 2024:11 2023: 6 2022 2 2019: 1 (Spags) The 32nd is Todd Bowles, who is head coach of TB but still listed as DC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NFL_defensive_coordinators Wiki didn't have a similar list for STC. Given this reality, the Bills have fared pretty well.

I don't know if this would work, but what about this trade: Rousseau, Bills 1st (#30), Bills 4th (#131) to Cleveland for Garrett, Cleveland's 3rd (#67) and 5th (#165). If it's not enough, instead of Cleveland's 3rd (#67) they trade the Bills' pick back (#94). Bills also have Chicago's 4th which is probably #108 if there are 5 comp picks at the end of the 3rd round. If you're the Bills do you do it? What about Cleveland?

And the Bills can just about match this list: James Cook - 2nd round pick Spencer Brown - 3rd round pick Dion Dawkins - 2nd round pick Greg Rousseau - late 1st round pick Christian Benford - 6th round pick Terrell Bernard - 3rd round pick Kalil Shakir - 5th round pick Taron Johnson - 4th round pick O'Cyrus Torrence - 2nd round pick Matt Milano - 5th round pick There's 10 to the KC 8. I will give you that Kelce and Jones are outstanding, McDuffie is right up there too, but Bills' list has 2 All Pros (Johnson, Milano), pro bowl (Dawkins), pro bowl caliber (Brown, Cook, Benford) and the rest are above average starters. And we will see about Bishop, Dorian Williams.

In my opinion, Greg Olsen is the best NFL analyst and Brady's exit will mean that he rightfully goes back to the #1 spot for Fox which is a plus. Brady may have gotten better but the bar was set very low based on the first couple of games. He wasn't a gaffe machine but didn't really say anything insightful, a kind of Captain Obvious type statements.

They can only bring up 2 from practice squad. Mike White is almost a lock. Gilliam will get a bunch of handoffs so no need for Gore Jr. This was previewed on Sunday vs. Jets. While a DB would be nice, I am hoping it is Will Clapp or Richard Gouriage. That way they can sit all 5 starting OL. The line from left to right would be Grable-Anderson-Van Pran-Clapp-Van Demark. They have plenty on DL and the LBs can be Morrow, Andreesson and Eddie U.

There are only 2 practice squad call ups allowed per week. The most important would be an OL player, either Clapp or Gouriage, so the entire OL can be pulled. After the Allen plays, the line should be Grable-Anderson-Van Pran-Clapp/Gouriage-Van Demark. They will not call up Gore, they will use the 2 plus Gilliam. We got a preview of that Sunday. It could be Hamler or Virgil, but more likely a DB. Codrington-Elam-Ingraham and 2 safeties will play. Could be Hyde but maybe more likely Cine sees some action. McDermott alluded to wanting to see how some players have progressed. He doesn't need to see Hyde play. They have plenty DL men on active roster. They probably have to call up Mike White. So I will go with OL and QB,

Shakir, Cook and Rousseau are very good players, but Benford is markedly above them all in terms of value to the team, performance compared to the rest of the league and the drop off between them and their replacement. All 3 are ranked statistically in the teens in their position group, Benford is most likely top 5. His advanced metrics are outstanding.

For years and years we all heard about "The Patriot Way." It will probably take a Super Bowl win but at some point maybe we will start hearing the media talk about "The Bills Way." It's easy to pick apart coaches for a decision or play call, and a GM for a draft pick or trade that didn't work out. But you have to look at the full body of work. Beane and McDermott have been outstanding and they aren't done yet.

I was going to respond to the "What's Up With Elam" topic, but have chosen to go positive instead and looked at the entire 2022 draft class. A lot of the experts say the appropriate time to evaluate a draft is in year 3. Well, it's year 3 for the 2022 draft class. As a reminder, here were the picks: Round 1 - Elam 2 - Cook 3 - Bernard 5 - Shakir 6 - Araiza 6 - Benford 6 - Tenuta 7 - Spector This is one heck of a draft: 3 Pro Bowl or better caliber players (Cook, Bernard, Benford - could he be All Pro?) Shakir, who may not be Pro Bowl but has emerged as a top third slot receiver and is leading the team in receptions and yards. 2 quality depth players (Elam, Spector) capable of stepping in to start when needed and quite possibly start for many teams. 1 who would still be on the team if not for the unfortunate personal stuff (Araiza). Tenuta, who wasn't good enough to make the Bills but is still kicking around the league on Practice Squads. All 8 picks still in the league, and 5 of the 8 in the 5th round or later. This draft was key to the Bills/Beane being able to move on from some vets (Edmunds, White, Singletary, Gabe Davis) whose play either declined or were too expensive. It also allowed them to transition to "Allen Era 2" without taking a step back. A transformative draft in my opinion. Fans can woulda, coulda, shoulda the Elam pick but he probably starts for 1/2 the teams in the league. He was pretty good vs. the Dolphins. Is any objective evaluator giving this draft anything but an A? By the way, in the 8 drafts since McDermott/Beane arrived in 2017 (giving McDermott the '17 year): All 24 players drafted in the first 4 rounds are still in the league, and at least 18 have started multiple games for the Bills Notable picks round 5 or later: Milano (5), Shakir (5), Bass (6), Dane Jackson (7), Teller (5), Hamlin (6), Benford (6) How many other teams have done better?

Data on interim HC in past 6 years. Results are dependent on opponent vs. "interim coach bump" (myth?), overall 8-5 though: 2018 Cleveland Browns - 2-5-1 under Hue Jackson Lost opener under Gregg Williams (v Chiefs) 5-2 rest of the way under Williams 2018 Green Bay Packers - 4-7-1 under Mike McCarthy Won opener under Joe Philbin (v Falcons) 1-2 rest of the way under Philbin 2019 Washington Commanders - 0-5 under Jay Gruden Won opener under Bill Callahan (@ Dolphins) 2-8 rest of the way under Callahan 2019 Carolina Panthers - 5-7 under Ron Rivera Lost opener under Perry Fewell (@ Falcons) 0-3 rest of the way under Fewell 2020 Houston Texans - 0-4 under Bill O'Brien Won opener under Romeo Crennel (v Jaguars) 3-8 rest of the way under Crennel 2020 Atlanta Falcons - 0-5 under Dan Quinn Won opener under Raheem Morris (@ Vikings) 3-7 rest of the way under Morris 2020 Detroit Lions - 4-7 under Matt Patricia Won opener under Darrell Bevell (@ Bears) 0-3 rest of the way under Bevell, plus 0-1 under Robert Prince when Bevell had Covid 2021 Jacksonville Jaguars - 2-11 under Urban Meyer Lost opener under Darrell Bevell (v Texans) 1-2 rest of the way under Bevell 2021 Las Vegas Raiders - 3-2 under Jon Gruden (officially resigned, not fired) Won opener under Rich Bisaccia (@ Broncos) 6-5 rest of the way under Bisaccia, made playoffs, lost in WC @ Bengals 2022 Carolina Panthers - 1-4 under Matt Rhule Lost opener under Steve Wilks (@ Rams) 6-5 rest of the way under Wilks 2022 Indianapolis Colts - 3-5-1 under Frank Reich Won opener under Jeff Saturday (@ Raiders) 0-7 rest of the way under Saturday 2022 Denver Broncos - 4-11 under Nathaniel Hackett Lost opener under Jerry Rosburg (@ Chiefs) 1-0 rest of the way under Rosburg 2023 Las Vegas Raiders - 3-5 under Josh McDaniels Won opener under Antonio Pierce (v Giants) 1-2 rest of the way so far under Pierce A few findings from that: Only Gregg Williams, Rich Bisaccia, Steve Wilks and technically Jerry Rosburg had a win percentage above .500 after their first game Of the eight that won their opening game, only one opponent finished at .500 or better (2020 Bears finished 8-8) Rich Bisaccia is the only interim HC to both win his first game, and have a winning record over their remaining games None of the Interim HC in this period have been given a permanent seat yet

While this a rationalization, if Benford was selected in the 1st round and Elam the 6th, everyone would be elated that the Bills hit on a really good CB and then added excellent depth in the 6th and would not want to trade Elam. Totally understand the opportunity cost of drafting Elam in the 1st - could have had Tyler Linderbaum, Jermaine Johnson, George Karlaftis (imagine if they would have picked another D lineman) or Christian Watson. However, the draft is a crapshoot even in the 1st round. Players picked before Elam: Evan Neal (7th), Jahan Dotson (16th), Kenny Pickett (21st). Also need to play the long game - Douglas may not be back in '25 and Elam becomes a starter. I'd say do not trade.

I am surprised that many still react to the headline number This is the first big point: only $19.85 million guaranteed. Other important points (based on numbers at Spotrac): 1. Cap hit in '25 is $8.2 million. That includes the prorated portion of the $16 million option bonus which is $3.2 million. It is over 5 years because the contract includes void years so it is $3.2 million/year for 5 years. At that point all the guaranteed money has been paid out. 2. The dead cap money starting in 2026-28: $3.84, $2.56 and $1.28 million. Injuries or decline in play and they are out. 3. Between high salaries and roster bonus they can either move on or he becomes an extension candidate in '26-28. It looks like a smart contract to me. If he continues to improve, it will be worthwhile, if he plateaus, declines or is injured they can get out of it.