OldTimer1960

I think it comes down to who is available at RB and who is available at more “valued” positions like DE, CB and OT. We won’t know how the draft will fall until it is in progress, but there is at least a reasonable chance that one of the very good RBs will be available (CEH, Dobbins, Akers, maybe even Taylor) - if the Bills have them rated considerably higher than any of the remaining DE or OT - are you advocating that they reach for a lower graded player at a more valued position? I agree that DE is a more valuable position and is a long-term need, but I suspect that there might be good CBs that may be graded close to the RBs, but not likely DE or OT.

I can understand that rationale. Do you think that Greenard can become at least an average starting DE, not necessarily immediately? I liked what I saw in the games that I watched. How do you compare Greenard and Okwara? Okwara looked more athletic than I expected when I watched him. Toss up between those 2 as prospects for me, I think.

Question is whether Julian Okwara, Jonathan Greenard, Bradee Anae or some other DE is a good enough prospect to overlook a very good prospect at other positions Like RB, WR or CB. Taking an “OK” DE prospect doesn’t help that much, but if you think you are getting a good long-term starting DE that can get you 6-8 sacks a year then by all means do it.

I voted Taylor because even though I liked what I saw from Greenard, I still feel like Taylor is the better prospect. I like Mims a lot, but I don’t think it would be prudent to take a WR in the 2nd with Diggs, Brown and Beasley even though Brown and Beasley are getting older. I don’t know that Cleveland is strong enough to see the field this year and you never know if he can get strong enough to succeed in run blocking.

I don’t think any of us are arguing that we’d choose RB over DE - given equivalent prospects available at DE and RB at 54. However, it doesn’t look like there will be equivalent DEs to the RBs that will likely be available then. It surprises me that some would be OK taking another WR in round 2, but would be upset over a RB to platoon with Singletary. Others have made this argument as well, but let’s say the Bills will run the ball 25 plays per game (probably slightly underestimated). If Singletary gets 15 of those, that leaves 10 carries for the 2nd back. That is far more touches than even Diggs will get at WR, let alone a WR4. I get it, there are some good RBs that have been found in 3rd-4th-5th rounds. But, look at where the Bills’ now pretty good WR group was drafted: Stefon Diggs round 5, John Brown round 3, Cole Beasley undrafted. Again, if there is a very good DE prospect at 54, then I would be on board to prioritize that over the RBs, but I don’t see a DE prospect that will likely be available that I would think would be comparable to Edwards-Helaire or Akers (or Taylor). With the same argument, I would prefer an equivalent talent at CB over the RBs. I haven’t yet looked as closely at CB as I did DE and RB, so maybe that position will have equivalent players to RB at 54.

What are you willing to trade to move up? The Bills’ 2nd and 3rd might get them from pick 24 of round 2 to pick 10 of round 2.

Who would game changing edge be that is available at pick 54?

Your argument makes sense, but your never going to convince the "RBs are a dime-a-dozen" guys. They are totally dug-in on the position that you should never draft a RB early. I would, of course, prefer to find a good starting-caliber DE in round 2 over a RB, but I don't see that in the offing with this class. I'm just not enamored with the DE class overall, especially once you get past Young, Epenesa, Gross-Matos and Chaisson. Even, those guys (except Young) have considerable questions - Epenesa - is he a good enough athlete to translate to NFL? Gross-Matos and Chaisson are more athletic upside than proven production at this point. At 54 you are looking at guys DEs like Notre Dame's Okwara, Forida's Greenard and Bradley Anae. I expect that there will be better prospects at CB and particularly RB than there will be at DE or OT. So then the question is do you reach for a player at a more important position (DE, OT) or take a better prospect at CB or RB?

I would love to get Akers, but can't imagine him being available in the last 1/3 of round 3.

I'm not opposed to Gibson in the latter portion of the draft, but this is a guy who touched the ball a total of 77 times on plays from scrimmage in 2 years at Memphis. I haven't read that an injury was responsible for the lack of touches, so you really have to ask - if he is such a dynamic weapon, why didn't his coaches at Memphis call more plays to get the ball into his hands? I am not saying that there might not be a good answer to that question, but this seems like a case where the hype (at least on this board) based on his size/speed far exceeds what he has shown in college.

Who do you like among the DEs for pick 54? I could *maybe* see Okwara fro Notre Dame or possibly Greenard from Florida. I wanted to like Anae, but I just don't see it (not that I am an expert). I wasn't that impressed with Terrell Lewis, either. Alton Robinson looks to have some upside, but round 2 seems a little rich for him. i have to believe that there will be better prospects available at 54 at CB and RB. I just don't think that the DE class is very good this year. If I am right, it is too bad, because the Bills could certainly use a young talent there.

Oops, meant Melvin Gordon. I don't know where I got Bennett from.

Denver just signed Bennett and they also have Lindsey. The league always evolves it went to more pass prevalent offenses and defenses had to adjust by finding quicker and lighter players. It wouldn't be the worst thing to have an offense that is very good at running to attack those lighter defenses. I love what Singletary showed last season, but he isn't built to handle 20 touches per game for 16 games - really not many guys are. I think it would be a good idea to pair Singletary with another good RB. If there isn't good value at OT (don't think there will be), DE (don't think there will be) or CB (I think there will be some good value there), then why not a RB like Akers or Edwards-Helaire in round 2? Splitting 25-30 touches per game between two good backs helps the offense and takes pressure off of Allen. I think most of us agree with this point. There may be groups of players at same and different positions that a team has graded closely.

Disclaimer: long time fan, long time follower of the draft, I don’t profess to have scouting experience or expertise. I think the Bills are in the market for a young DE in the draft so I watched multiple full games of several DE prospects and my observations/opinions follow. I didn’t include the top prospects Young, Epenesa, Gross-Matos and Davidson as I don’t expect them to be available by pick 54, but I think any of them would be nice picks if still there. Players are not listed in any specific order. Comments and discussion welcomed! Defensive Ends Bradley Anae - Watched vs Texas, Oregon and USC. High effort player who looks like he gives up a lot of size against OTs. Showed ability to beat OT inside with counter and a nice spin move, but showed little ability to beat OT around the edge. Maybe it was the scheme and him playing his backside responsibilities, but looked like he often got stuck to the blocker. Disappointing combine numbers and shorter than ideal arms don’t help his draft status. Was productive in college and super effective at Senior Bowl posting 3 sacks and PFF rates his pass rush skills highly - maybe I saw some dud games. Alton Robinson - LDE Syracuse. Plays with good knee bend and lateral agility- looks athletic. Hustles and plays to the whistle. Showed a bit of quickness to beat RT wide and to inside. Good combine numbers including 25 reps on bench, impressive 4.69 40 and 35” vertical. Interesting prospect. Watched Pitt and Notre Dame. Jonathan Greenard - (watched vs. Miami, Florida St) - plays mostly as down DE, but also as stand-up LB with some drops into coverage. Moves like an athlete with knees bent and smooth change of direction. Generated pressure and sacks in games that I saw. Hustles, did not see him take any plays off. Has quite long arms and uses them effectively. Greenard’s 4.87 40 and 30.5” vertical were underwhelming. Curtis Weaver - (watched vs. Florida State, Colorado State)- played almost exclusively in a 2-point stance. Dropped into coverage on occasion, though doesn’t look to have the speed to do that in NFL. Pretty smooth mover, though not as smooth as Greenard, in my opinion. Can generate pressure and sacks inside on counter moves. Can rush wide, but doesn’t show great burst. Sometimes moves inside to DT on passing down. Overall, looked to be an effective rusher in the games that I watched, but wonder how effective he can be in NFL with little experience playing from a 3 or 4 point stance. Did not run or lift at the combine - doesn’t look to have much speed based on the games I watched. Julian Okwara - watched vs Virginia & Georgia. Good size. Plays from both 3-point and 2-point stance. Shows some power and acceleration on pass rush. Showed ability to generate pass rush on inside and outside moves. Not strong against the run, but has the frame to get bigger. I was pleasantly surprised at his play - interesting potential. Did not participate at combine except for the bench press where he showed well. Khalid Kareem - watched vs. Georgia & Michigan. Athletic build with long arms, reasonably easy movement. Seems to play the run well. Didn’t show many pass rush moves and doesn’t show much burst or explosiveness to be much of a pass rusher. Sack production in college was modest. Did not participate much at combine due to injury. Josh Uche - watched vs. Penn State, Illinois. Undersized DE and OLB and plays mostly from a 2-point stance. Shows some speed/burst. Drops into coverage a lot. While he has speed, he didn’t show a broad repertoire of pass rush moves and doesn’t have the strength to rush with power. Did have 8.5 sacks in 2019. At 6’ 1” and 245 may be better at LB than DE. Did not participate at combine. Terrell Lewis - watched vs. LSU, Auburn. - Plays DE and LB. Athletic enough to drop into coverage. Shows acceleration to beat OT to inside. Seems like he should be more effective beating OT wide. Did not make any impactful plays in either game that I watched. Good size and arm length, but looks quite lean on video. I’ve read that he missed considerable time with injuries so that need to be evaluated by team doctors. Seems like there is upside on this player. Alex Highsmith - watched vs. Buffalo & Clemson - plays with very good effort on every play. Against Buffalo, he overmatched UB OT #67 beating him with power and quickness generating good pass rush consistently. Note, don’t know how good UB OT was. Clemson game was a major blowout, but he generated some pressure early against Clemson’s 1st team and collected a sack vs their 2nd team. Reportedly is a leader and high effort athlete. Undersized at 248 lbs, but showed well athletically at combine. Derrek Tuszka - watched vs Illinois State. Hustler, shows some pop to stand up OT on run plays and an effective bull rush at FCS level. Ran well at the combine, but will be downgraded as a DE for much shorter than ideal arms. Didn’t show exceptional speed and flexibility to overcome lack of ideal stature. Chance due effort.

Has anyone seen an article about if/how Bills players are continuing their offseason strength and conditioning training? I think most/all team facilities are shut down and it probably isn't prudent for players to be hitting the local public gyms during the pandemic. I imagine that a few players have some sort of gym at home, but a lot of these guys are fairly young and probably don't even own houses where they can set up a gym. I would guess that the teams that have the most players that stay in shape through this time will have an advantage if there is a season in 2020. Given the type of players that the Bills favor, I'll bet that many of them will do the best that they can to be in shape.

Agree that DE and CB are more important positions and harder to fill than RB, but I think DE won’t be close to BPA at 54. There are *maybe* a couple of guys like Greenard and Anae to think about there, but I’m willing to bet that there will be CB, and especially RB higher on most boards available at 54 than the DEs there, I’m not an expert, but it seems more like you’ll have to talk yourself into really liking any of the DEs vs actually liking prospects at other positions.

You have to ask why his college coaches at Memphis didn’t bother to get him the ball more than 77 times total in 2 seasons. I think that is a big red flag. 5th round or later, sure, but don’t get sucked in by the size/speed trap before that.

While I'm not against drafting another WR, I would not trade up to do so unless it is a small move up using no more than their 5th. I would rather keep the 3rd, 4th and 5th and possibly move up from their current pick in round 3 or their current pick in round 4. I would be very surprised if they took a WR in the 2nd after acquiring Diggs. That would essentially be using their 1st and 2nd round picks on WR and I think that is too much. Depends on players available at other positions in round 2 - particularly DE, CB, OT and RB.

Trading up that high will be burning the vast majority of their valuable picks, so I don't think that they'll do that. It would cost their 2nd and 3rd to get near pick 10 of the 2nd round.

Man, I can remember thinking that Treadwell with his size, strength and multi-year high volume collegiate production would be really something in the NFL. In his case, his poor athletic testing results (40 and vert) were a red flag that should have been heeded.

While Antonio Gibson's size and speed is certainly intriguing he only had a career total of 33 rushing attempts at D1. He also caught only 44 passes for his career. There MUST be a reason that Memphis didn't try to get the ball more to such a big, fast athlete. i think teams need to try to figure out why Memphis didn't give him the ball much more often and then maybe you consider him starting in round 5, unless there is a very good explanation for why he got SO few touches at Memphis.

I don't think that the Bills' 2nd and 3rd gets them any higher than pick 10 in round 2. I also don't expect them to be willing to give up their 3rd to move up. I could possibly see them trade their 4th to move up in the 3rd (would get them from 22 to about 11 in round 3) or trading up in round 4 giving up their 5th to get from pick 22 to about pick 7 in round 4.

I think Singletary and Dillon sharing 25-30 touches/game would be a really nice combination with Yeldon as a receiving option. With the mileage on Dillon, I think he likely lasts into the 3rd.

Disclaimer: long time fan, long time follower of the draft, I don’t profess to have scouting experience or expertise. I think the Bills are interested in a RB to share carries with Devin Singletary, so I watched multiple full games of several RB prospects and my observations/opinions follow. I didn’t include the top 4 backs (Swift, Taylor, Dobbins, Edwards-Helaire) as I don’t expect them to be available by pick 54, but I think any of them would be nice picks if still there. Players are not listed in any specific order. Comments and discussion welcomed! Overall, I really liked Cam Akers and think he or A.J. Dillon would be really nice sharing carries with Devin Singletary. RBs Zach Moss - runs with power, decent agility for a power runner but not his calling card. Reasonably good hands out of backfield. Speed is a negative and isn’t terribly elusive. Running style could lead to short career unless he shares carries with another back. Darrynton Evans - watched vs North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia Southern. Speed is evident. Quick decisive cuts. Wasn’t used heavily as a receiver. Not a power runner, but will show effort after contact. Anthony McFarland - Watched vs Temple, Purdue and Syracuse. Very quick acceleration and good top end speed. Quick cutter, but not especially elusive. Runs hard, but smaller stature means he isn’t going to run NFL defenders over. Not much experience catching passes - I wonder why as getting him in space on swing passes would seem ideal. Cam Akers - Viewed NC State, Miami. Compact, powerful and shows good speed. Really breaks tackles and finishes runs strong. Took fair number of snaps in wildcat and throws a half decent ball. Really enjoyed watching his games. AJ Dillon - (watched Norte Dame, Clemson, Fla State) BIG back with excellent speed for his size. Can get through a hole and also can pick his way through interior traffic. Takes multiple players to bring him down. Not super nifty, but fairly nimble for size. Has carried the ball a LOT. Not used much as a receiver. Given wear and tear from college, may be best splitting carries with another back to prolong career. LaMical Perine - (watched vs LSU, Auburn). Enough quickness to avoid an initial tackle, but not especially nifty nor fast. Runs pretty hard. Good receiver out of backfield. Looks competent as a pass blocker. Reportedly high character and good special teamer. Joshua Kelley - (watched vs Ariz, Utah, USC). Ok size, pretty decisive as a runner who finds holes. Shows pretty good acceleration to get through holes quickly. Combine 40 time was good. His story of perseverance after being lightly recruited is a nice one, but I don’t think he will be more than a competent backup in NFL.

He was very good!