NoSaint

Its starting to feel like they could release tape and docs reaction would be “yea, but why did they take so long to let me hear it? Probably busy tampering with it! Cause no one else said they heard it. Guess we will never know what Ritchie said!” its really something how he’s dug in on it definitely not being something racist

Im fine with most if not all of that - truly. I won’t claim to know what was said. I won’t claim to know what was heard. And I think that society is too eager to prove who hates (insert many uncool things here) the most, and ruin lives over something that doesn’t warrant having lives ruined... im mostly trying to have an intellectually honest conversation between fans - not deliberate on a jury. Richie was accused of saying something racist. Ritchie has not denied that and has openly apologized for saying something he would seemingly be embarrassed to have attached to him. I think that implies that it went beyond only the craziest extremists would be offended and into it being something that would be generally frowned upon. I applaud his efforts to reach out in private, and to own it in public. I’m curious if YN agrees with his characterization of the interactions. I think it’s a pretty solid chance that the dude that used to say really inappropriate stuff on the regular could be genuinely trying to do better but in the heat of the moment something dumb came out without true intent. I think it should be easy to get by from there with genuine apology and some uncomfortable talks if it’s outside of who you have been the last few years. Sounds like we might be at that point already. I find it silly how far a few are twisting to say they won’t even consider the possibility that he said something racist. I don’t particularly like how many are implying “pssssh it’s football go call that guy a n****** and get him to take a penalty.” Id be disappointed if my team had that reputation, and am happy Ritchie seems to be stepping up.

Yup- clearly have my pitchfork lit in this rage fueled commentary about my opinions of Ritchie. Should probably jail the guy just to be safe. so far the total sum of my punishments proposed are that if it rose to the standard of being proven he straight up used the n word or similar blatant offense that I wouldn’t fault the team at all for cutting him - and I likely would cut him if I were gm. I think it has no place in the game and on a purely practical level it’s terrible for team morale. That’s not where we are currently though. and that as spectators I think it’s fair for us to say “not sure what went down but if he did (and with the apology it sure sounds like he did) say something racially charged we should probably uniformly agree that it’s not cool” You sure got me this time, doc! Nailed me and my desire to really railroad him by subjecting him to my super harsh statement of not liking racism. Gave me an inch and I’m really taking a mile here.

You are clearly right- based on: Dude 1: “that dude made a racist comment” Dudes that might not have been around: ”oh I didn’t hear it I don’t know... maybe a misunderstanding? I dunno!” Dude accused: ”I’m sorry - sometimes you get caught in the craziness of the moment and say things you’d never say off the field” we should probably conclude “in absence of confirmation of the exact insult the most reasonable expectation is he probably insulted the guys mom or wife because a guy said he didn’t hear what happened and no ones repeated any racial quote to us”

Where we vary is I didn’t change my view based on whether or not the bengals made the comeback in week 17 when evaluating the bills season — playoffs are fun for a fan but a mediocre benchmark for a demarcation between success and failure or ranking teams across years. the 2017 bills were decent but nothing exceptional compared to many years. I don’t mean that as a big knock on the team.

And if both decide to let water go under the bridge you’ll stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and yell you didn’t hear anything? come on doc- forget this beyond a shadow of a doubt standard you are applying here.... based on the accusation, and apology, you have to acknowledge there’s a pretty good chance he said something racially inappropriate. I promise they won’t jail him if you acknowledge it’s not looking great...

Honest question: if Ritchie flat out said “man, I’m embarrassed for saying something racially charged” what would your reaction be? you come across like it might be “yea but who knows what it really was, and what was he supposed to do- deny it? That’s exactly what a liar would do too!” Its ok to admit he probably messed up here. He’s done so and you won’t. That’s kind of strange on your part

I do find that hard to believe as I think Ritchie would’ve said “oh man, this was a terrible misunderstanding and I hope that Yannik can trust that it was a mixup and no harm was meant” instead of “you say things out there that aren’t reflective of who you really are” (essentially- on my phone so not pulling verbatim) i likewise dont think its crazy that (especially in a loud stadium - road team on offense) that the two could’ve generally held conversation that others didn’t catch. Is the entire offense and defensive line bunched up at all times?

Is it that hard to believe that either: A) some don’t care to get involved, or B) simply didn’t hear it Or are you picturing Ritchie screaming slurs at the top of his lungs at a quiet moment?

He was a good, not great, player. he is perhaps a better person I don’t know that he’s a wall of fame talent but wish him all the best and glad he found this in an exam instead of via a bad hit.

Sooooo I think there is reason to be optimistic but likewise cautious with that. Making the playoffs isn’t near the accomplishment that it feels like this January.

Im not seeing a whole lot of flesh being taken i am seeing a lot of twisting and turning to avoid acknowledging Ritchie likely messed up even after Ritchie publicly acknowledged he messed up without adding any caveats. im still trying to figure out if its fear of losing the player from our team — or fear we may have said similar ourselves. I’ve not been perfect, and I don’t think we need to banish the guy... I think we can say “sounds like he probably made a racial comment and I’m not down for that”

Without a doubt. Likely known today, which is why I should take my own advice and not just throw names.... I was guilty of just immediately picturing cordy when I saw it as he’s an established guy at a key position with multiple injury issues and a presser sounds like retirement for someone well known

Unfortunately it’s also a tweet on what is at best a second tier source- so it hard to hang on every word... but I do agree. If it’s a new thing though, it’s legit throwing darts blindfolded at 11+ names (maybe fewer as the guys at the game seem fine)

I mean if speculating - cordy, clay and KB are the three that have major long term stuff that may be uglier than expected when docs opened them up Maybe getting loose with the words starter and injury and it’s Henderson but it doesn’t seem right Otherwise we’re just throwing darts at names if it’s new. the probowl guys are and will continue to be visible so probably not them

Could be cordy? Some lingering health stuff there. Process of elimination should remive any probowl guys

Im curious what some of the folks that were adamant he said nothing will say here... but I’m guessing it’ll be mostly silence with a few chirps about football being a mans game and anything goes.

So long story short - the dude that hadn’t previously made stuff up probably didn’t make this up and the guy that’s said dumb stuff before probably said dumb stuff here... and its not the end of the world either? Crazy.

I mean we see good players start with hand injuries that would prevent grabbing. So in theory this kid could still play at a high level- and he’d be totally comfortable in the technique. Its an interesting situation

Lets be real, if it was an accusation against any patriot player, doc would be passing out pitchforks. He’s not suddenly super principled- he just likes this one disappearing

Or he realized that he didn’t actually want that distraction for himself and his team so he put the lid back on. Ultimately, we don’t know much of what happened. I think it would be strange to fabricate it completely, but I’m not going to riot against incognito either We don’t even know the first part. Just that no one was motivated to expose it if he did. But with the bills on offense, there’s a chance it was while it was loud - and who knows how loud it may have been said. maybe it happened, maybe it didn’t - no need to rush to say one way or the other. Doesn’t hurt to simply leave it as we don’t know.

Frankly, as should we. There’s a reason a lot of us were upset we didn’t take more shots. Catch- good pi- good interception- not bad (like a punt) at some one point you have to create chunk yardage. Especially when putting up only 3 points like a quarter of the weeks you play

I think it’s dicey. But also a guy that joined the firm 10 years after the contract finished and the league almost 10 more years later, right? It’s not like a guy that directly worked on the deal In any way shape or form? of the conflicts out there I thought a former falcons player reffing the saints falcons game was a worse example. the league would be well served to avoid these optics even if there’s no documented issue.

This honestly doesn’t bother me as long as there are some boundaries. I don’t want Tom to be playing golf with the guy 3 times a week all offseason- but these are humans in close contact with other humans and ideally all with a shared passion for the game. I don’t mind a “good game” moment or chatting pregame, or throwing a comment after a big play. i likewise don’t get fired up when coaches or players are friendly with opponents. but I get how it all can run people the wrong way.

Ill buy the “Jordan effect” or other subconscious biases. I don’t think it’s a league directive by any means though. Yes, I think they are favored to a degree though. I also think theres some truth to various other factors though. I think they are a well coached team that gets its players prepped for situations as well as any team in the league. I think that fans here are eager to remember the calls the pats get and forgot the calls that go against them. Yes, some go against them and I’d venture most flat remember none. Part of that is they are a good team and still win. Part is people want to believe in the conspiracy. i think people have started pointing at good calls as proof of bias. When you are so riled up that every call is proof even when it’s the right call — it certainly feels like they are always getting the breaks. When you add up a natural bias from refs towards stars, bias of our fans against them, and also them just being really good— things start feeling really skewed when they are probably just a little off kilter