You gotta love the flutie magic

[The Senator]

The one chance Flutie had to prove his greatness in the NFL ( not that he wasn't already great ) and we took it away from him for Rob F$%#king Johnson. I admit, as much as I loved Doug Flutie, I was one of the Fools that thought we needed to get RJ on the field. ( I even tried to suppress the memory until I think Lori reminded me )

 

I just got caught up in all the BS just like some of the BS in this thread.

Excellent point, dog14787. I believe it was A. J. Smith that convince Butler & Co. to sign Flutie - they scouted him in the CFL, when his contract there was up and convinced him to sign with the Bills by assuring him he'd have the opportunity to compete for the starting job. Flutie signed for the vet minimum - somehwere around $250K at the time, I believe.

 

Weeks later, they traded a #1 draft pick for Rob Johnson (based on his performance in one game), gave him a $10M contract, and named him the starting QB.

 

Some opportunity that turned out to be for Flutie. No wonder he had a chip on his shoulder. Instead of having a fair and open competition in training camp like he was promised, he'd have to wait for his opportunity when Johnson got hurt. Luckily for Flutie, Johns was a total kitty who took 7 weeks to recover from a being bruise he got from falling on a football. Flutie was ready to make the most out of that opportunity, taking the Bills to the playoffs, being named NFL comeback player of the year, and earning Pro Bowl honors.

 

Then, the Bills 'screwed' him again by naming Johnson the starter.

[Chef Jim]

Homes can be mobile too, doesn't make them any good.

[The_Philster]

Yeah, you gotta love the way he magically divided the locker room and got the greatest receiver in Bills history benched because he didn't have the arm strength to hit him on a simple out pattern. His greatest magic trick of all is when he finally disappeared. F^ck him.

 

I was no fan. His second year as a starter here was no where near the 1st.

 

no doubt...during the bulk of 1999, he cost us some games and nearly cost us a bunch more. Thankfully, we had the #1 defense in the NFL covering his ass

He was allowed to play in the league....he flopped in New England and Chicago. He wasn't banished to the CFL, it was where his skill level deemed he should play.

Defenders couldn't see him behind the line, correct. He couldn't see WR's down the field, correct. Ask Andre Reed what he thought of Flutie's vision.

 

no kidding...he never threw the ball, it seemed. He had Andre and Moulds WIDE !@#$ING OPEN downfield and he chose to tuck and run...drives stalled that would've ended in TDs thanks to his antics

So Fat Stupid Lazy Load Jason Peters undeservedly gets 'named' to the Pro Bowl - based soley on name recognition, and despite leading the league in sacks-allowed - and folks claim he's God-like, while Flutie wins Comeback Player of the Year Award and Pro Bowl honors but folks say he just wasn't very good.

 

Love the consistency.

He was great in 1998 and deserved all the accolades for that season...but he stunk in 1999

 

That would depend on what you are looking at.

I'll take his first season in Buffalo over his second all the time every time.

While he didn't have the yardage (he didn't play in every game either), his other numbers were better.

Better accuracy, more TDs, less turnovers, better pass average, etc ...

 

anyone who actually watched him play both years would take the 1998 Flutie over the 1999 Flutie

He blew the play....

there was no grand design or Flutie magic involved. He screwed up and ran for his life.

 

no....what happened was, on the play before, we all thought Moulds scored when he actually went out just before the goalline. The crowd was going nuts and not that many of us noticed at first that he was out and the crowd was loud still from cheering when the offense lined up with a play designed to go to Thurman. Thanks to the noise, Thurman didn't get the play call correct and when Flutie turned to flip him the ball, Thurman was nowhere in sight..so the midget improvised

The way the 11 little Fluties played on defense was especially magical.

yeah...I love how Flutie gets the credit for everything that the top defense in the league was responsible for

 

Bottom line- the guy was a winner. Considering what has come since him, his career in buffalo looks better with age.

 

his career looks better with senility, you mean

Criticize all you want about him but no QB for the Bills has done as well in the win loss column since Kelly.

doesn't hurt that he was blessed with the top defense in the league or had 2 future HOF receivers and a HOF RB on the team

 

 

He was a Pro Bowler. He led the Bills to the playoffs both years he started. That's more than any other quarterback besides Jim Kelly can say for the Bills.

 

Ralphie got all jittered when RJ ran up the score on an Indy team that was playing for nothing and demanded RJ be the starter next week in the Wildcards since he had more money ($1 million) invested in RJ.

 

That was one of the first signs we should have realized Ralphie has a tendency to jump the gun. Most recent case with Jauron's extension after the 4-0 start.

 

Was Flutie the best quarterback in the league? Hell no. Was he the best available quarterback with the Bills? Hellz yeah.

You know what I find hilarious? That people still think Ralph forced the change at QB. He LOVED Flutie...he was the one who had Butler give him a hefty raise after 1 season here. Wade made the change with Ralph's approval...nothing more. Wade would've switched QBs midseason because of how poorly the midget was playing but didn't want to upset the owner

[The_Philster]

I think you are crazy! Flutie rocked

you obviously didn't watch him

 

Oh well, then he must have been great because all of the Bills QB's since then have sucked.

 

A crap sandwich with cheese is much better than a crap sandwich.

no doubt..crap is crap no matter how you dress it up

 

 

Making the playoffs is like a crap sandwich???

it's a team game and he wasn't the reason we made it in 1999 by any stretch of the imagination

[The_Philster]

Excellent point, dog14787. I believe it was A. J. Smith that convince Butler & Co. to sign Flutie - they scouted him in the CFL, when his contract there was up and convinced him to sign with the Bills by assuring him he'd have the opportunity to compete for the starting job. Flutie signed for the vet minimum - somehwere around $250K at the time, I believe.

 

Weeks later, they traded a #1 draft pick for Rob Johnson (based on his performance in one game), gave him a $10M contract, and named him the starting QB.

 

Some opportunity that turned out to be for Flutie. No wonder he had a chip on his shoulder. Instead of having a fair and open competition in training camp like he was promised, he'd have to wait for his opportunity when Johnson got hurt. Luckily for Flutie, Johns was a total kitty who took 7 weeks to recover from a being bruise he got from falling on a football. Flutie was ready to make the most out of that opportunity, taking the Bills to the playoffs, being named NFL comeback player of the year, and earning Pro Bowl honors.

 

Then, the Bills 'screwed' him again by naming Johnson the starter.

He won Comeback player of the year in 98...same year he earned the Pro Bowl....he was benched in the playoffs at the end of the 1999 season

 

As far as contracts, Johnson had a 5-year $25M deal

After the 1998 season, Flutie signed a 4-year $22M deal...paying him more per season than Johnson. Ralph was behind that contract extension...the same Ralph that some fools think hated Flutie and forced his benching

[Steely Dan]

Homes can be mobile too, doesn't make them any good.

 

[TDO'Kearney]

Bingo! Flutie may have become one of the great backup QBs to play in the NFL, if he would have adjusted his ego/attitude. That experience may have even led to him being something more than a novelty starting QB, in the NFL.

 

By the end of his ride in Buffalo, he was a locker room dividing prick.

 

Am I the only one who doesn't think a huge ego for a QB is a problem? Let's face it, you have to have the cojones to tell a receiver what he did wrong on his 7 cut in the huddle in a game you've thrown 3 INTs in. There has to be a little bit of "prick" in you to do that. Nice guys would still feel bad about letting their team down with the INTs.

 

And yea, if I was Trent Edwards (not the Internet couch potato I REALLY am...) I'd feel good about TO. I'm glad he gets on camera and starts freaking out when the team is losing. I'm glad he thinks every ball should go to him even if he's triple covered. And Trent will have to have the stones to tell him to STFU and play, even though he's got 10 years less in the league and has done relatively little in the NFL by comparison.

 

You have to have that mentality to be a QB, IMHO.

[Booster4324]

Quick question. Who is here saying that Flutie was not a good QB and was not an RJ backer?

 

Mind you, I simply thought he was way better than RJ. Would I have traded him for someone better? In a heartbeat.

[VOR]

Let's stop you right here, as you are engaging in your usual, total bulls#it...

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/dougflutie/profile?id=FLU553722

 

Take a peek at his stats, and tell me again about how well he did, as a starter. I know stats don't tell the entire story, but I'm curious to see how you are going to spin these numbers into "doing well". He lost every starting job he ever had, because he wasn't good enough...PERIOD!

 

Why do people persist in believing Flutie was some great QB he couldn't hold the staring job for ANY NFL team he played for? As for his NFL playoff performance, it is relatively unimpressive. He stunk up the field in Chicago's loss to Washington in his first visit to the playoffs:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...98701030chi.htm

 

He played very well for the Bills, before handing the game to Miami (of all teams) on a fumble:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...99901020mia.htm

 

And he was a non-factor in his only other performance with NE (another loss, to Denver):

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlutDo00.htm

 

Three playoff appearances, his team lost all three times.

 

Where's the NFL greatness, WEO? Show me something that suggests he should be remembered as a great NFL QB.

That's the inconsistency that is Mr. WEO. Flutie was a cancer everywhere he went in the NFL, except for his last stop in NE, and that's the reason he was "relegated to the back of the bus." Along with the fact that he wasn't all that great a QB, experiencing moderate success with only the Bills for a 2-year period, thanks largely to the personnel around him, and the fact that RJ could never avoid a sack and/or stay healthy. His time with the Chargers was marked by "just losing." But you see, the difference is that he's been duped by Flutie's PR people, but believes he knows what TO is all about.

[Cynical]

Am I the only one who doesn't think a huge ego for a QB is a problem?

 

A huge ego can be a problem major problem if:

 

The player doesn't have the abilities to back it up

The player cannot recognize or refuses to recognize he can/did screw up, or is playing poorly

 

These were Fluties problems.

 

When he was playing poorly, and was called out on it, he never hesitated in pointing fingers at other players, and their mistakes.

 

Let's face it, you have to have the cojones to tell a receiver what he did wrong on his 7 cut in the huddle in a game you've thrown 3 INTs in. There has to be a little bit of "prick" in you to do that. Nice guys would still feel bad about letting their team down with the INTs.

 

And if those 3 INTS were because of you, you better accept the blame. Pointing out the failures of somebody else without taking responsibility for your own failures does not create a harmonious working relationship.

[The Dean]

Am I the only one who doesn't think a huge ego for a QB is a problem? Let's face it, you have to have the cojones to tell a receiver what he did wrong on his 7 cut in the huddle in a game you've thrown 3 INTs in. There has to be a little bit of "prick" in you to do that. Nice guys would still feel bad about letting their team down with the INTs.

 

And yea, if I was Trent Edwards (not the Internet couch potato I REALLY am...) I'd feel good about TO. I'm glad he gets on camera and starts freaking out when the team is losing. I'm glad he thinks every ball should go to him even if he's triple covered. And Trent will have to have the stones to tell him to STFU and play, even though he's got 10 years less in the league and has done relatively little in the NFL by comparison.

 

You have to have that mentality to be a QB, IMHO.

 

 

There is a huge difference between on-the-field ego, confidence, and simply being a spoiled self-righteous turd. No NFL player should feel he is guaranteed a starting job, and should be happy and proud to earn it, IMO.

 

You paint it as if one has to be either an overwhelming douchebag or a passive pansy. There are plenty of areas between those two.

 

This story The Senator likes to tell is preposterous. Flutie DID start for the Bills. His job wasn't taken away from him. As with his previous NFL stops, the football men in the organization decided he wasn't the answer, and decided to try another, younger and more physically talented guy. Did Flutie think he was guaranteed the Bills starting QB job for life? Perhaps he thought is was a Supreme Court appointment.

 

EDIT: One more thing. Do you think Frank Reich had a huge ego? Did he complain about playing behind Jimbo? There were some who were calling for Frank to got the starting nod, when he QB'd the team so effectively when Jim was injured. I would say Frank had a far better, and more productive, NFL career than Skin Flutie.

[KD in CA]

Did Flutie think he was guaranteed the Bills starting QB job for life?

 

I'd have been happy if he'd been guaranteed the job for one playoff game after starting 15 games in 1999.

 

Bills management can never live down that asinine decision.

[Guest dog14787]

I'd have been happy if he'd been guaranteed the job for one playoff game after starting 15 games in 1999.

 

Bills management can never live down that asinine decision.

 

 

No doubt, and its no wonder the football Gods are angry because we blew it.

[The Senator]

He won Comeback player of the year in 98...same year he earned the Pro Bowl....he was benched in the playoffs at the end of the 1999 season

I stand corrected

As far as contracts, Johnson had a 5-year $25M deal

After the 1998 season, Flutie signed a 4-year $22M deal...paying him more per season than Johnson.

Reminds me of that great Babe Ruth line - when asked how he felt about making more money than Herbert Hoover, Ruth replied, "I had a better year."

Ralph was behind that contract extension...the same Ralph that some fools think hated Flutie and forced his benching

I always thought it was Wade's call - you know, the cerebral Wade Phillps - the same guy that pronounced the team 'mathematically eliminated from the playoffs when we were still 'in the hunt', said of Chris Watson, "He's more of a 'punt-catcher' than a 'punt returner' ", and that removed the team from the field in that NE game, allowing Vinatjeri to run the ball in for a 2-point conversion (and beat the spread) after Shawn Jefferson "caught" a pass 4 yards out of bounds, Henry Jones was called for pass interference on the Bledwsoe hail-Mary to Terry Glenn, setting up the 1-yard Ben Coates TD reception.

 

 

Anyway, my main point was that the Bills promised Flutie a chance at the starting QB job, the reneged.

[The Dean]

No doubt, and its no wonder the football Gods are angry because we blew it.

 

 

Cut the BS. The Bills lost the game, because they allowed a last minute KO return, and the refs blew the call. Unless you think Flutie would have made the tackle on the return, his benching was meaningless. There is no way to KNOW what would have happened had he played, but since his team NEVER, EVER won an NFL playoff game, I find it hard to justify the belief the Bills would have won with Flutie. Where were the football gods the year before, when Flutie fumbled?

[The Dean]

Anyway, my main point was that the Bills promised Flutie a chance at the starting QB job, the reneged.

 

 

WRONG! He did start, many games.

[extrahammer]

it's a team game and he wasn't the reason we made it in 1999 by any stretch of the imagination

 

No he wasn't the only contributor. But neither was the defense. That was my point. Re-read.

 

Debate all you want, but the bottom line is, and maybe it's a conspiracy , but when Flutie played the team won A LOT more often than any other QB on the roster at the time. People want to pull him out because he's not Kurt Warner or Tom Brady, but newsflash! He was the best we had.

 

I honestly believe you Flutie haters have severe cases of Tall-Man Syndrome. Good luck with that!

[Guest dog14787]

Cut the BS. The Bills lost the game, because they allowed a last minute KO return, and the refs blew the call. Unless you think Flutie would have made the tackle on the return, his benching was meaningless. There is no way to KNOW what would have happened had he played, but since his team NEVER, EVER won an NFL playoff game, I find it hard to justify the belief the Bills would have won with Flutie. Where were the football gods the year before, when Flutie fumbled?

 

 

I thought QB's didn't win or lose ball games Dean the team does so if a team wins enough games to make the playoffs with one QB, why switch him for another QB.

 

Especially with the magic flute, talk about bad karma.

 

Its BS no matter how you want to slice it and I was one of the dumb asses that wanted RJ in there and I'm not afraid to admit it. It was stupidity and about as stupid as the BS your peddling now, take a team to the playoffs just to get benched, Good grief, its no wonder I blocked it out,

[The Jokeman]

I'll admit I'm a Flutie Hater, in fact I created a site entitled Flutie Haters soon after we signed him from the CFL. As my issue with him was it was a well known fact before he came here that he had issues in Chicago with Jim McMahon and as already noted was a scab with the Patriots. That all said everyone likes to go on and on how much better the RJ Flutie was. I can't say I disagree with that however what would you expect from a guy (Flutie) who'd been playing professional football for 12 plus years compared to RJ who prior to playing with the Bills had played in 5 NFL games with only 1 start, yet it was one of the best starts ever by a QB in the league's history. As everyone dogs RJ for being brittle but in said game he was knocked out of the game but came back later to lead the Jags to victory. Also RJ played remarkably well here in the last two starts he had with us in 1998 against San Francisco and St Louis respectively. The Rams game was marked as a loss but was more of a defensive collapse then anything. As doesn't anyone else remember how we couldn't stop Greg Hill and the pre Kurt Warner Rams offense lead by Tony Banks? The biggest problem I had with Flutie starting is RJ wasn't able to get on the field and develop. Yet with all that said he played awesome in our 1998 finale against the Saints and 1999 season finale against the Colts. Yes he played poorly against the Titans in the 1999 playoff game but they too were the #1 defense that year and he was playing with a make shift O-line that had either Robert Hicks or Marcus Spriggs playing left OT against rookie of the year sensation Jevon Kearse. Ultimately neither one were really NFL starting QBs but I still feel had RJ been given a full season or two, if his body allowed him to, to start he might have turned out to be above average.

[The_Philster]

No he wasn't the only contributor. But neither was the defense. That was my point. Re-read.

 

Debate all you want, but the bottom line is, and maybe it's a conspiracy , but when Flutie played the team won A LOT more often than any other QB on the roster at the time. People want to pull him out because he's not Kurt Warner or Tom Brady, but newsflash! He was the best we had.

 

I honestly believe you Flutie haters have severe cases of Tall-Man Syndrome. Good luck with that!

typical...because RJ sucked, Flutie was great

Let's let you in on reality...they BOTH sucked!

It's a team game and Flutie screwed up a lot in 1999...constantly tucking the ball and running when he had WRs WIDE OPEN downfield. Thankfully we had the #1 defense in the league to pick up the slack

 

There's a few reasons people hate Flutie

1. we actually watched him play without having our faces stuck in his crotch
   
2. his fans portray him as flawless and give him credit for everything short of parting the Red Sea and don't give him blame for anything
   

[VOR]

No he wasn't the only contributor. But neither was the defense. That was my point. Re-read.

 

Debate all you want, but the bottom line is, and maybe it's a conspiracy , but when Flutie played the team won A LOT more often than any other QB on the roster at the time. People want to pull him out because he's not Kurt Warner or Tom Brady, but newsflash! He was the best we had.

 

I honestly believe you Flutie haters have severe cases of Tall-Man Syndrome. Good luck with that!

The Bills won games with RJ in 1998-1999 (forget the years after that, since that's when the salary cap blood-letting began). In the Chargers game to open the 1998 season, Steve Christie missed 2 very makeable FG's, and that was the margin of defeat. Against the Rams, the Bills were ahead when RJ went down with an injury (a recurring theme, and a concussion in this case) and Flutie failed to run out the clock, allowing the Rams to come from behind and win. And the first win of the season was against the 49'ers, with RJ starting. Then he got injured on the first play against the lowly (at the time) Colts and Flutie became the starter for the rest of the year and the following year. And lest we forget, when RJ left the field against the Titans, the Bills were ahead, only to see the ST's inexcusably give-up a TD (which may or may not have been a forward pass).

[NavyBillsFan]

I know this is a very debated subject here with what happened with the Titans game but...

 

 

I think if Buffalo would of beat the Titans that day (with Doug) we would of went to the Super Bowl that year. The Colts had a strong team but no D. Would of been Flutie Mania and possible our first Championship. Would of been great to see Bruce, Reed and Thomas get one.

[Cynical]

I think if Buffalo would of beat the Titans that day (with Doug) we would of went to the Super Bowl that year. The Colts had a strong team but no D. Would of been Flutie Mania and possible our first Championship. Would of been great to see Bruce, Reed and Thomas get one.

 

And I think if I had played the lotto last night, I would have won.

[VOR]

I know this is a very debated subject here with what happened with the Titans game but...

 

 

I think if Buffalo would of beat the Titans that day (with Doug) we would of went to the Super Bowl that year. The Colts had a strong team but no D. Would of been Flutie Mania and possible our first Championship. Would of been great to see Bruce, Reed and Thomas get one.

That's what people like to think. But the Bills weren't going to beat the Colts in Indy the following week, with their banged-up O-line and injuries on defense.

[Steely Dan]

There is a huge difference between on-the-field ego, confidence, and simply being a spoiled self-righteous turd. No NFL player should feel he is guaranteed a starting job, and should be happy and proud to earn it, IMO.

 

You paint it as if one has to be either an overwhelming douchebag or a passive pansy. There are plenty of areas between those two.

 

This story The Senator likes to tell is preposterous. Flutie DID start for the Bills. His job wasn't taken away from him. As with his previous NFL stops, the football men in the organization decided he wasn't the answer, and decided to try another, younger and more physically talented guy. Did Flutie think he was guaranteed the Bills starting QB job for life? Perhaps he thought is was a Supreme Court appointment.

 

EDIT: One more thing. Do you think Frank Reich had a huge ego? Did he complain about playing behind Jimbo? There were some who were calling for Frank to got the starting nod, when he QB'd the team so effectively when Jim was injured. I would say Frank had a far better, and more productive, NFL career than Skin Flutie.

 

Skin Flutie!

 

There is a fine line between cocky and confident. There were many times Kelly would take the blame for an incomplete pass. I don't recall Flutie doing that that much if at all. Kelly traveled that line well. Jay Cutler goes over the line right now but I'm guessing he'll quiet down as his career goes on. He is also a young player who's made the pro-bowl.

 

No he wasn't the only contributor. But neither was the defense. That was my point. Re-read.

 

Debate all you want, but the bottom line is, and maybe it's a conspiracy , but when Flutie played the team won A LOT more often than any other QB on the roster at the time. People want to pull him out because he's not Kurt Warner or Tom Brady, but newsflash! He was the best we had.

 

I honestly believe you Flutie haters have severe cases of Tall-Man Syndrome. Good luck with that!

 

I say this as a guy who stands 5'5" but Flutie has a Napoleon Complex and so do his fans. To them, and him, he was ignored by the NFL head coaches just because he is short.

 

These are the same NFL coaches who's jobs ride on wins and losses but won't put the best QB in? Get over it you Flutie Flakes have a skewed vision of his abilities based on a great career as a CFL QB. Futie was a great CFL QB 'Nuff said.

 

 

typical...because RJ sucked, Flutie was great

Let's let you in on reality...they BOTH sucked!

It's a team game and Flutie screwed up a lot in 1999...constantly tucking the ball and running when he had WRs WIDE OPEN downfield. Thankfully we had the #1 defense in the league to pick up the slack

 

There's a few reasons people hate Flutie

1. we actually watched him play without having our faces stuck in his crotch
   
2. his fans portray him as flawless and give him credit for everything short of parting the Red Sea and don't give him blame for anything
   

 

What he said!

[The Senator]

WRONG! He did start, many games.

I think you missed my point Deano - which was that the Bills signed Flutie with assurances that he would have a fair chance to compete for the starting QB job, then traded for RJ and promptly named him the starter without giving Flutie that chance to compete with Johnson for the starting job in training camp. That Flutie finally got the starting job because RJ got injured is not quite the same thing as having a fair, legitimate chance to compete for the job.

 

But you knew that.

[extrahammer]

The Bills won games with RJ in 1998-1999 (forget the years after that, since that's when the salary cap blood-letting began).

 

Yeah they won, but nothing compared to Flutie at the helm...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH2_sEQfqN8

[Guest dog14787]

Yeah they won, but nothing compared to Flutie at the helm...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH2_sEQfqN8

 

 

A little Flutie magic goes a long ways

[Buftex]

I know this is a very debated subject here with what happened with the Titans game but...

 

 

I think if Buffalo would of beat the Titans that day (with Doug) we would of went to the Super Bowl that year. The Colts had a strong team but no D. Would of been Flutie Mania and possible our first Championship. Would of been great to see Bruce, Reed and Thomas get one.

 

 

That would have been sweet...but I can tell you, neither Thurman or Andre were huge Flutie fans. When Flutie scored that magic td against the Jags, in going out of his way to pat himself on the back, Flutie went out of his way to throw Thurman under the bus...it didn't go over well with a lot of the vetrans on the team...

[KD in CA]

Cut the BS. The Bills lost the game, because they allowed a last minute KO return, and the refs blew the call.

 

....and because the Bills one-dimensional QB completed only 45% of his passes that day and threw for less than 6 yards per attempt. Oh...and gave up a safety.

 

Maybe if Bills management doesn't have one of the all time brain farts, the game doesn't come down to a fluky KO return.

[canbuffan34]

To further your point Gordio here are the facts:

 

Flutie signed with the Bills as a free agent and shortly afterwards the team traded for Rob Johnson. The Bills started the 1998 Season 0-3 with Rob Johnson at quarterback. After a week 6 injury to Johnson the Bills installed Flutie as the starter. He led them to an 8-3 finish and the playoffs. Technically he should have been 9-3 as he won in week 6 in a game which Johnson started but didn't throw a pass.

 

Some people blame Flutie for losing that road playoff game in Miami even though he threw for 360 yards and had them knocking at the door at the end. He was sacked by Trace Armstrong and fumbled the ball. However before that play there were several horrible officiating calls which screwed the Bills. That was one of the most exciting and heart-wrenching Bills games in memory.

 

In 1999, despite being less statistically effective at quarterback than the season before, Flutie led the team to a 9-6 record and a second consecutive playoff berth. To protect him from injury, Flutie did not start the week 17 game against Indy. Johnson started and won the regular season finale. For reasons known only to the organization, the Bills decided to start Rob Johnson against the Tennessee Titans. It may be unprecedented in major pro sports that a team has so completely disrespected and emasculated a player who has done so much for them. Of course we lost the game due to the "Music City Miracle." We have not made the playoffs since.

 

The following season, 2000, Flutie was relegated to backup but started 5 games due to injuries to Rob Johnson. Flutie's record in those games was 4-1. Geez what a dropoff in effectiveness (sarcasm)!

 

From 1998 till 2000, Flutie's record as Bills starter was 22-11. It should actually be 23-11.

 

From 1998 till 2000, Johnson's record as Bills starter (with essentially the same team around him) was actually 7-10. His record should actually be 6-10.

 

Oh yeah, and in 1998 when the Bills were not selling enough preferred seating to trigger a lease extension, Flutie saved the Bills with his stretch run and tickets started selling like hotcakes, extending the lease and saving the Bills near term future in Buffalo. In other words, he saved the franchise.

 

His detractors typically point to two things:

 

1) He was a "midget." Give me a midget who wins games. These are the same people calling Trent Edwards a "noodle-armed quarterback." Fine you guys can have Rob Johnson and Kyle Boller (guys who are 6'4" and can throw 60 yards from there knees). Personally I'll take a guy who does whatever it takes to win, even if it's winning ugly. Guys like Flutie, Jeff Garcia, and Fran Tarkenton are the types of players (excellent QBs) who a huge portion of football fans will never embrace because they're hung up on what they think an NFL quarterback is supposed to look like.

 

2) He was divisive and not a good teammate. Look, the guy was disrespected and doubted his entire pro career. He was exiled to Canada because of the prejudice against small quarterbacks. He was kicked in the mouth by the Bills when he was benched for the Tennessee playoff game. He was treated like crap after he saved the franchise. I think I'd be a little bit bitter too. And what of Rob Johnson's role in dividing the team? Was he a good teammate? Was he conciliatory and did he support Flutie when doing so would have been best for the team? No. He sulked and withdrew like the coward that he is.

 

Flutie was maligned by the media who were put off by his ego and the chip on his shoulder. When his popularity waned, he was not helped by his icy relationship with the media. This trickled down to reportage and then to public opinion.

 

Doug Flutie is perhaps the least-appreciated athlete in Buffalo sports history. On no subject are more Bills fans more wrong than on their negative view of Flutie's time here.

Good job! This could be the most well thought out, articulate and concise thing I've read on this board in years. BRAVO, Sir!

[Booster4324]

....and because the Bills one-dimensional QB completed only 45% of his passes that day and threw for less than 6 yards per attempt. Oh...and gave up a safety.

 

Maybe if Bills management doesn't have one of the all time brain farts, the game doesn't come down to a fluky KO return.

 

Don't forget the 7 sacks. You know those sacks that do not go into QB rating, which the RJ fans were all about.

[Buftex]

Yeah they won, but nothing compared to Flutie at the helm...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH2_sEQfqN8

 

It is hard to defend Rob Johnson. He was not mentally tough enough to handle the ups and downs of being an NFL QB. Having the vetran back-up, behind you, trying to make you look bad, at every turn, didn't help Johnsons' cause. People seem to have forgotten though, before Flutie got his first sniff of blood, playing against the Jags, he was looking like a pretty damn good NFL starter. He had a cautious, but unspectacular game against the Chargers, but started to light it up against the Rams, 49ers....then he got hurt, Flutie came in, won a game on a spectacular play, and it was all over for RJ. Flutie had the Bills fanbase vocally on his side, and Johnson just never recovered. I don't blame Flutie for Jonnsons' lack of mental toughness, but I do think he is partly responsible for ensuring the Johnson never recovered, once he sensed his weakness. Not a ringing endorsement for either guy. Johnson was too taffy assed to handle the pressure (see JP Losman?) and Flutie was not the team guy he always tries to pretend that he is...

[VOR]

I don't think it was a matter of mental toughness on RJ's part. He was the starter going into 1998, and then lost his job due to injury and Flutie having the hot hand. Flutie started from then on, until the Colts 1999 season-ender and then the Titans playoff game. Then RJ was named the starter in 2000. Mental toughness would only apply if RJ lost his job while still healthy but having poor outings/losing.

 

RJ's problem was staying healthy. Because of his maddening inability to throw the ball away. It seemed like he was worried more about his fantasy numbers, like completion percentage, than the number of sacks he took, and thus his health. There was no other explanation for say, running out of bounds behind the LOS with the ball in his hand, instead of throwing it away.

[canbuffan34]

Alright, I've seen enough of this garbage.

 

He didn't "save the franchise". The fact that the team went 10-6 and made the playoffs (while boasting a top 5 defense) resulted in higher sales of tickets/suites, and THAT is what kept them here. Was the The Greatest Athlete in the History of the Universe (Flutie) part of it? Yes. Was he THE reason? No. Ticket and Suite sales.

 

As this ludicrous debate should show you, there are/were plenty of Bills fans that bought tickets and didn't like Flutie, so enough with banging the "he saved the franchise" drum.

 

Also, let's not go overboard with how much better than Montana/Brady/Manning/Unitas he was. Last time I checked, he was so good that he was relegated to playing in the CFL for a decade.

The sales of those tickets and suites WERE a direct result of Flutie's play at that time! Please tell me you're not that obtuse to realize this? The Bills stadium lease was up for renewal at the time, the sudden excitement and buzz created by Flutie, Moulds et. al kept this team here!

[canbuffan34]

Should actually be 24-11. Very first game of his first season was against the Chargers and RJ was stinking up the joint. 3rd qtr I believe Johnson has to leave with a knee bruise or something. Flutie came in and led the Bills back and Christie could have won the game with either a chippie or a very makable FG at the end. Christie unfortunately shanked it.

You're absolutely right about this except it was a game against the Colts, not the Chargers.

[Buftex]

I don't think it was a matter of mental toughness on RJ's part. He was the starter going into 1998, and then lost his job due to injury and Flutie having the hot hand. Flutie started from then on, until the Colts 1999 season-ender and then the Titans playoff game. Then RJ was named the starter in 2000. Mental toughness would only apply if RJ lost his job while still healthy but having poor outings/losing.

 

RJ's problem was staying healthy. Because of his maddening inability to throw the ball away. It seemed like he was worried more about his fantasy numbers, like completion percentage, than the number of sacks he took, and thus his health. There was no other explanation for say, running out of bounds behind the LOS with the ball in his hand, instead of throwing it away.

 

 

IIRC, Flutie was only named the starter, until Johnson was healthy, that first season. RJ would come back, and always get "injured" again. I remember the Bills playing the Chargers at the Ralph, I guess it was 1999, and he had a pretty decent game. He had his 300 yards, but had been sacked a bunch...the fans at the Ralph were brutal on him, even when the Bills were winning. Eventually, the game ended in regulation, as a tie...but RJ was mysteriously injured on the last possession

in regulation. Flutie came in during OT, and the Bills won. It was chalked up as another example of "Flutie Magic".

 

The number of injuries that RJ had, in all sort of varities always had people wondering, at the time, if he was really injured, or was just enjoying it more on the bench, out of the pressure cooker, and not hearing it from the fans. I realize RJ only had a handful of "good games", but I don't think it was a coincidence that his best games normally came on the road.

 

RJ, I think, had the talent, but his skin was too thin. There is no way of knowing, of course, but I would hazard to guess, if he had come to Buffalo, and Alex Van Pelt had been his primary backup, things would have played out a little differently. When you have a young QB, what type of player serves as his backup is very important. Flutie, talented but limited, with a major chip on his shoulder, was the worst kind of backup for Johnson, in terms of his development.

[Buftex]

You're absolutely right about this except it was a game against the Colts, not the Chargers.

 

 

Maybe you are thinking of a different game? Rob Johnsons first start as a Bill, came against the Ryan Leaf led Chargers...and the Bills lost...16-14...Flutie couldn't get the job done! That was sarcasm....

[Arkady Renko]

You're absolutely right about this except it was a game against the Colts, not the Chargers.

 

It was the opener against the Chargers, sorry. Flutie came in again during the fifth game of the season for Johnson (against the Colts) and won.

[BuffaloPride]

The sales of those tickets and suites WERE a direct result of Flutie's play at that time! Please tell me you're not that obtuse to realize this? The Bills stadium lease was up for renewal at the time, the sudden excitement and buzz created by Flutie, Moulds et. al kept this team here!

Really? I paid the increase and renewed my seasons that year and I can tell you I didn't do it because of that piece of sh--. I renewed my tickets because, unlike you, I from here and I love my team. There is a tradition in my family of going to Bills games that dates back to when my father took me when I was a kid. When the lease was up for renewal I anted up so I would be able to continue that tradition and be able to take my kids to games as well. I don't know whether to call you naive or just plain stupid to think you can speak for all the Bills fans who paid to keep our beloved team here when our lease was up. I can't speak for all of them either, but I can tell you I did it to keep the team in Buffalo. God bless the Buffalo Bills...and f^ck Doug Flutie in his worthless a$$.