DrDawkinstein Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Freddie will be planning his 29th birthday party by the end of this season. after working hard in all sorts of crappy leagues and schools, he finally got a contract that is going to provide security. if he plays his cards right, for the rest of his life. i'm 29, and i wouldnt be pissed if someone offered me ~$1.7million a year to do anything. people on this board made the negotiation process into a big deal when it wasnt. and now theyre gathering the pitchforks and the torches because the FO saved money. you guys need another hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 you know the kid will not see most of that money... All the more reason to 'underpay' if you're implying he won't be here in a few years. Personally, I think it's a good deal for a guy who'll be getting 10-12 touches a game after week four... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I think the Bills have his rights, basically, for two seasons. Next year he would be the restricted kind where they had to tender him at a first or second or third, etc, and could match any offer or get that draft pick they tendered in return. Just because you have him, doesn't mean you have to take advantage of him. So let me get this right. When the Bills work a fair and maybe even a good deal for themselves, some of you guys give them crap???? You are right they could have let him play out his last two years. And maybe he gets hurt one of those seasons, and then never gets another nickle playing. Ever think of that??? Sorry but i really wonder why some of you guys call yourselfs 'fans'. If all you are ever going to do is tear down what the Bills do. This board is for fans. For people who like the Bills. And yes it is a good place to vent when we feel the Bills screwed up. But they did not in this case. Lets not forget that Jackson was playing in arena football, when the Bills came calling. I think over there you make $25,000. I bet if we asked our friends who watch football(but are not Bills fans), who Fred Jackson was on the Bills. Most of them would not be able to tell you. His numbers have been nice numbers so far. And if he continues to put up good numbers then the Bills will keep him for the life of that deal. But for people who think he is worth more, i ask you why? Because he has spelled Lynch in some games? O.K. But he is also in his late 20s. That is getting old in RB years. When the Bills now have that extra $500k-$1mil to get another good player, i bet you will not complain then. Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 All the more reason to 'underpay' if you're implying he won't be here in a few years. Personally, I think it's a good deal for a guy who'll be getting 10-12 touches a game after week four... Try week 3, and maybe even week 2. Speaking of which, the Bills signing Rhodes destroyed whatever leverage FJ had with Lynch's suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Looks to me at his age this is a REAL 4 year deal. He stands to collect all of the money due him unless he falters. This year he gets right at 2.3 Mill, so he has a nest for himself and his family no matter what and a little over the 2 mill every one expected. Next year a bargain at 1.5 Mill , then year three of his contract 1.7 and year 4 about 1.8 . Neither year 3 nor 4 is at an exorbinant level forcing us to cut him for cap reasons and a renegotiation could easily be done in year three if he defies logic and history of running backs in their mid thirties. That's really the key, as far as I'm concerned. They could have back loaded the deal, and cut him before he ever saw the cash. This is a realistic deal, although perhaps a tad low. As Magox mentioned, it isn't as if Fred's actually production demands anything even close to these numbers. But, his skills, attitude and versatility make him more valuable, at this point in time, than his stats would indicate. There are cases where the team seriously overpays or underpays a player, but this isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Kelly is the arbiter of what's fair in the NFL. Didn't you know that? PTR Actually, it's called having an opinion. That's why I said, 'The Bills screwed him, in my opinion.' It's also my opinion that virtually all posts here are poster's opinions, and they should be able to have one, even PromoTheRobot. It doesn't make anyone the arbiter of what is fair or not. It's also my opinion that the PTR at the end of all your posts is not only redundant and stupid, since your name is at the very top of your posts like everyone else's, but it also defeats your intended purpose because when anyone is finished reading each redundant PTR post, you remind them it was you who just typed something so stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 His gripe is that the Bills "insulted" FJ with a below market contract. Because paying him more would have ensured his happiness and would have prevented him from asking for money more in the future. That's not what I meant. I just thought the Bills had him over a barrel because he would have made peanuts for two years if he didn't sign an extension now and would have been 30 years old. If he got hurt in the next two years he would never see a million dollars as a pretty damn good NFL player. And instead of taking care of a popular, hard-working, always producing valuable cog with a fair market contract, they squeezed him, pinched pennies and didn't really reward him fairly. Again, it's just my opinion, and this isn't an exact science but not only do the Bills tend to overpay or underpay, the going rate for less valuable back-ups has been set at around 4-10. I think he easily deserved 2.5 a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 kelly, i know it's just your opinion, and that's great. but it's a bit of a strong opinion about a whole lot of nothing. i think youre getting this reaction from other posters because youre reading too much into these non-events. you can argue that the Bills "tend to overpay and underpay" but youre being neither fair nor balanced. there isnt one team in the league that gets all the salaries right all the time. its impossible. fred is happy. the bills are happy. there really isnt a reason to feel this strongly about nothing. but carry on. thats what the board is for, i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Actually, it's called having an opinion. That's why I said, 'The Bills screwed him, in my opinion.' It's also my opinion that virtually all posts here are poster's opinions, and they should be able to have one, even PromoTheRobot. It doesn't make anyone the arbiter of what is fair or not. It's also my opinion that the PTR at the end of all your posts is not only redundant and stupid, since your name is at the very top of your posts like everyone else's, but it also defeats your intended purpose because when anyone is finished reading each redundant PTR post, you remind them it was you who just typed something so stupid. even if it's the wrong opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 even if it's the wrong opinion? opinions are neither right nor wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 So let me get this right. When the Bills work a fair and maybe even a good deal for themselves, some of you guys give them crap???? You are right they could have let him play out his last two years. And maybe he gets hurt one of those seasons, and then never gets another nickle playing. Ever think of that??? Sorry but i really wonder why some of you guys call yourselfs 'fans'. If all you are ever going to do is tear down what the Bills do. This board is for fans. For people who like the Bills. And yes it is a good place to vent when we feel the Bills screwed up. But they did not in this case. Lets not forget that Jackson was playing in arena football, when the Bills came calling. I think over there you make $25,000. I bet if we asked our friends who watch football(but are not Bills fans), who Fred Jackson was on the Bills. Most of them would not be able to tell you. His numbers have been nice numbers so far. And if he continues to put up good numbers then the Bills will keep him for the life of that deal. But for people who think he is worth more, i ask you why? Because he has spelled Lynch in some games? O.K. But he is also in his late 20s. That is getting old in RB years. When the Bills now have that extra $500k-$1mil to get another good player, i bet you will not complain then. Jeez. That's a bunch of crap. First, I love the signing, and love the player. I'm thrilled the team has him for four years. His contract is a separate issue. I just think the front office should have paid him a little more, the market rate. He was in a terrible bargaining position through no fault of his own, outside of not being a star in college at a bigger school. You think he's not worth as much as I do, that's fair, it says nothing about how much I care for the Bills. I'm likely a bigger homer than you. I simply don't think they know how much players are worth, and I think that is because they have a non-personnel guy doing contracts, a non-personnel guy as GM, and a lousy personnel guy in charge of pro scouting. I also happen to think this has been a very good off-season overall, I love the TO signing, love the draft, like a few of the decent FA signings, and think it could be a great off-season if we add one or both of the two guys out there remaining we may be looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 opinions are neither right nor wrong. errrm sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 kelly, i know it's just your opinion, and that's great. but it's a bit of a strong opinion about a whole lot of nothing. i think youre getting this reaction from other posters because youre reading too much into these non-events. you can argue that the Bills "tend to overpay and underpay" but youre being neither fair nor balanced. there isnt one team in the league that gets all the salaries right all the time. its impossible. fred is happy. the bills are happy. there really isnt a reason to feel this strongly about nothing. but carry on. thats what the board is for, i guess. There is not a lot more to argue about until training camp. Plus, I think this isn't a whole lot of nothing and I was actually talking about more than just the Jackson numbers. I just don't think we get it right much, and it's one of the reasons we haven't been good in the last decade. We don't make many good money decisions, and like I said in another post above with more specifics, I think it's because of the front office guys and structure. It's also not about being cheap because we will spend money. Maybe you think we do it right a lot more than I do. Has nothing to do with what I think about or how much I care for the team. You're right that a lot of teams tend to overpay and underpay. And I have said before that all around the league it seems that 1/3 are overpaid, 1/3 are paid about right, and 1/3 are underpaid. The key is to make the right decisions and I don't think we do that at a good percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 opinions are neither right nor wrong. What if it is your opinion the Earth is flat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 errrm sarcasm Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 What if it is your opinion the Earth is flat? I guess I just don't know when to shut up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 What if it is your opinion the Earth is flat? You ever been to Florida?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Try week 3, and maybe even week 2. Speaking of which, the Bills signing Rhodes destroyed whatever leverage FJ had with Lynch's suspension. I suspect they'll have him spilt carries with ML in week 4, or week 3 if the suspension gets reduced... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 That's a bunch of crap. First, I love the signing, and love the player. I'm thrilled the team has him for four years. His contract is a separate issue. I just think the front office should have paid him a little more, the market rate. He was in a terrible bargaining position through no fault of his own, outside of not being a star in college at a bigger school. You think he's not worth as much as I do, that's fair, it says nothing about how much I care for the Bills. I'm likely a bigger homer than you. I simply don't think they know how much players are worth, and I think that is because they have a non-personnel guy doing contracts, a non-personnel guy as GM, and a lousy personnel guy in charge of pro scouting. I also happen to think this has been a very good off-season overall, I love the TO signing, love the draft, like a few of the decent FA signings, and think it could be a great off-season if we add one or both of the two guys out there remaining we may be looking at. Well then i guess FJ or his agent dont know what they are worth either. Jackson is a back up running back that is 28 y/o. Those are facts. He has shown glimpses of being a good player. But he has never done it week in and week out at a high level. If/when he does that then maybe i will get on board with you. But for now, this sounds fair. Maybe a little bit on the plus side for the Bills. But i am a Bills fan first and FJ fan second. So i like the deal a lot. And wont cry for a guy makeing possibly $7.5mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 wanst fast freddie jonathan/freddie smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 wanst fast freddie jonathan/freddie smith Yes, Fred Jackson doesn't go by "Fast Freddie"...but, some here call him that, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 wanst fast freddie jonathan/freddie smith Yes, it was. But then again, it's a SKOOBY thread (his BMW-driving friends must not have been available to prevent this oversight... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemhoff Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 The Bills screwed him, IMO. And we continue to either underpay or overpay. A solid back-up RB who worked his ass off, always produced, and is counted on to start three important games, is worth more than 1.9 million, and the going rate seems to be 2.5. The Bills gave Drayton Florence 3.3 mil a year to be a back-up CB. How did the Bills screw him? He signed the contract that was proposed to him. Takes two to tango Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 How did the Bills screw him? He signed the contract that was proposed to him. Takes two to tango Freddie is earning alot more than year than he would of otherwise with this contract. If you add the extra money he is making over the next 2 years versus what the Bills could have given him, you'll see that this is more than fair for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBills14 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Now why would we sign Fast Freddy Smith to that kind of deal....that is Fast Freddy is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 The Bills screwed him, IMO. And we continue to either underpay or overpay. yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 How did the Bills screw him? He signed the contract that was proposed to him. Takes two to tango Exactly. A voice of reason. I will go one further,his agent also was involved. To me this sounds like a guy being realistic and thankful. Realistic- He is in his lates 20's playing RB. He would turn 32 by the time this contract is up. Thankful- The Bills saw enough in him to bring him over form the Arena League. Oh and stop feeling sorry for the guy. He is going to make 7.5 million, if he plays out the whole deal. How many families in Buffalo would it take to equal that number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Actually, it's called having an opinion. That's why I said, 'The Bills screwed him, in my opinion.' It's also my opinion that virtually all posts here are poster's opinions, and they should be able to have one, even PromoTheRobot. It doesn't make anyone the arbiter of what is fair or not. It's also my opinion that the PTR at the end of all your posts is not only redundant and stupid, since your name is at the very top of your posts like everyone else's, but it also defeats your intended purpose because when anyone is finished reading each redundant PTR post, you remind them it was you who just typed something so stupid. Yes they are opinions, but you make damn sure everybody knows them. As for my "PTR", I consider it a trademark, a brand that visually identifies my post as mine. Sort of like seeing any post that pisses and moans about the Bills. I can pretty much count it came from you. That's branding. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Yes they are opinions, but you make damn sure everybody knows them. As for my "PTR", I consider it a trademark, a brand that visually identifies my post as mine. Sort of like seeing any post that pisses and moans about the Bills. I can pretty much count it came from you. That's branding. PTR When I think of the people who constantly annoy me on here with their negativity, Kelly is pretty far down the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 How did the Bills screw him? He signed the contract that was proposed to him. Takes two to tango That argument doesn't hold weight, when the Bills are the ONLY team Fred can negotiate with. He could have taken the minimum (far less) for one year, and then been at their mercy once more, next year. I don't think he got screwed, but in Fred's current situation it doesn't take two to tango...it only takes one. Fred can choose to dance with the Bills, or sit home. When I think of the people who constantly annoy me on here with their negativity, Kelly is pretty far down the list. The very bottom, IMO. The posts accusing him of not being a good Bills fan, because he doesn't agree with the contract are flat-out stupid. I disagree with him, to a degree, but he makes his case logically, and without the BS that many here throw around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NishP Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 hey if fast freddy's happy with it then we all should be... 2.0 million dollars a year is a lot of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offde-fence Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I read, in my opinion, three good points that I agree with. 1: The Bills sometimes seem reluctant (almost always) to pay their own, who prove to be worth paying. 2: They overpay at a few positions, which could be an aftermath of previous F.O. guys, but, they were willing to hand over much more for Florence, who most likely wasn't intended to see the field more than 20 to 30 percent of the plays. 3: If we're pinching pennies and have - as I've read on PFT, somewhere like 12 million still in cap space - then why not tip the scales on a couple of free agents that could improve our team? On the main subject, I have liked everything I've seen of Jackson, and I think we should've made him feel appreciated, and paid accordingly. I don't know if he feels that way. I guess we'll see if he performs as he has in the past. He probably wouldn't have signed it if he didn't feel it was good enough. And, I also agree - we're talking about sums of money that I could live off of, and probably house my son and any future kids, for a long, long time with. So, it's kind of contextual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 That argument doesn't hold weight, when the Bills are the ONLY team Fred can negotiate with. He could have taken the minimum (far less) for one year, and then been at their mercy once more, next year. I don't think he got screwed, but in Fred's current situation it doesn't take two to tango...it only takes one. Fred can choose to dance with the Bills, or sit home. The very bottom, IMO. The posts accusing him of not being a good Bills fan, because he doesn't agree with the contract are flat-out stupid. I disagree with him, to a degree, but he makes his case logically, and without the BS that many here throw around. There is no shortage of posters here who have a strict definition of what constitutes being a "good (or true) Bills fan". I disagree with Kelly the Fair & Balanced Dog as often as I agree with him, but I would never question his fanhood! He is a Bills fan in every sense of he idea. If he wasn't, he wouldn't give two craps that the Bills screwed Fred Jackson... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Capolupo Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 The Bills screwed him, IMO. And we continue to either underpay or overpay. A solid back-up RB who worked his ass off, always produced, and is counted on to start three important games, is worth more than 1.9 million, and the going rate seems to be 2.5. The Bills gave Drayton Florence 3.3 mil a year to be a back-up CB. Saying the Bills screwed him makes absolutely no sense. Fred Jackson and his agent agreed to terms of the contract. The Bills didn't hold a gun to his head; BOTH sides negotiated the contract. Your point is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 The very bottom, IMO. The posts accusing him of not being a good Bills fan, because he doesn't agree with the contract are flat-out stupid. I disagree with him, to a degree, but he makes his case logically, and without the BS that many here throw around. ....and he's very, very handsome. So are you, -b.....so are you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Saying the Bills screwed him makes absolutely no sense. Fred Jackson and his agent agreed to terms of the contract. The Bills didn't hold a gun to his head; BOTH sides negotiated the contract. Your point is moot. Actually, it may not be true, but it makes a lot of sense. And it has been addressed fully in the 73 previous posts to yours in this thread. What is truly a moot point, at least in the little or no practical value or meaning sense of the word, is your post and point, which has already been explored, dissected, possibly debunked, and debated thoroughly above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 Actually, it may not be true, but it makes a lot of sense. And it has been addressed fully in the 73 previous posts to yours in this thread. What is truly a moot point, at least in the little or no practical value or meaning sense of the word, is your post and point, which has already been explored, dissected, possibly debunked, and debated thoroughly already above. Debunked, LOL. You just never get to use that enough in a sentence during the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Debunked, LOL. You just never get to use that enough in a sentence during the week. If anyone should repeatedly use the word debunked during the week, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 If anyone should repeatedly use the word debunked during the week, it's you. "Hey-Oh!" -Ed McMahon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 If anyone should repeatedly use the word debunked during the week, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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