SouthernMan Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Ok...I'm glad to be rid of the Jason Peters distraction, and I think his value is overrated. The Bills were winning without him last year, he was a revolving door his first few games, and Chambers and Bell seem to have a lot of upside as potential replacements. So I'm not as enamored with Peters the player as many experts. But I'm not the expert. The experts think he's one of the top OTs in the NFL. So how was this a good trade if he can't be replaced equally with the #28 pick? Ok, yeah, they got a 4th rounder too. Big deal. What are the chances that'll turn into an impact player? I don't even want to hear about the longshot 6th rounder from next year's draft. Camp fodder in all liklihood. We trade our first rounders and end up with players like JP Losman or Drew Bledsoe. We trade a probowl OT and get what is barely a first round pick? WTF? Here's where it doesn't make sense to me: If the top OT out of college is taken with a pick, say, in the top 10 or 15 (and they probably will be), isn't Peter's worth greater than the rookie OT taken early in the draft? Peter's is still young and in his prime, won't require any learning curve, and is a known commodity (no risk). So, why wouldn't the team with the coveted OT on it's board approach the Bills and offer their higher than # 28 pick for Peters? I mean, if OT is their top need, wouldn't it be a better bang for the buck to get Peters? Why then is the # 28 pick a good deal for the Bills? I think the Bills blew it. I believe they could have waited until draft day and made a better deal with a team looking to draft for their OT need. It could have been real sweet to have drafted 2 immediate impact players early in the draft. I'll cross my fingers they find one at #28, but it's more likey to be someone in the James Hardy category. Typical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 scroll down the page and read any of the other 13909834 Peters threads for good explanations of how the Bills made the most of a bad situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 First of all if you think Peters has no risk, then i dont know what you watched last year. He has also been injured the last two years. He also held out last year with three years left on his deal. Sorry but if you think he has no risk, then i am not sure i can go further with the arguement as to why the Bills traded him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 The question is simple. Did the Bills get good value for Peters? Using both the old and new trade value charts, the picks we got from Philly, #28 and #121 this year, and #161 next year (the highest 6th round pick) equals roughly the #21 selection. So roughly speaking, we traded Peters for the equivalent of the 21st pick in the draft. Also we saved quite a few million dollars by making this trade. Regardless of what people think we should have gotten, we won't know for a couple of years whether the trade worked out of not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 The question is simple. Did the Bills get good value for Peters? Using both the old and new trade value charts, the picks we got from Philly, #28 and #121 this year, and #161 next year (the highest 6th round pick) equals roughly the #21 selection. So roughly speaking, we traded Peters for the equivalent of the 21st pick in the draft. Also we saved quite a few million dollars by making this trade. Regardless of what people think we should have gotten, we won't know for a couple of years whether the trade worked out of not. Its early in San Jose isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 So roughly speaking, we traded Peters for the equivalent of the 21st pick in the draft. Also we saved quite a few million dollars by making this trade. Regardless of what people think we should have gotten, we won't know for a couple of years whether the trade worked out of not. Saving money is worthless if you can't put a playoff team on the field. I'm not sure why people are high on saving money when making the playoffs and winning is the goal. I don't expect a Jerry Jones type effort, but that's ridiculous. The Bills aren't as financially strapped as they'd make you think. They were separated by 3M it was reported with Peters, so I would think they offered at least 8-8.5M. That money will now not be spent, as late first rounders aren't getting big dollars. I think 11th overall will get 5-10% more than McKelvin last year, which is 5 yrs 22M perhaps. The rest of their picks still have to fit underneath the rookie cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bourbonboy Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Also we saved quite a few million dollars by making this trade. This is really the key - you can't look at the draft choice trade value straight up. We won't get a LT as good as Peters with the #28 pick; however, if we can get someone close, then use the extra $$ to keep other key players or bring in other free agents to plug other holes, then the trade as a whole can make a lot more sense. So, you gotta look at not only the draft picks, but also what the extra $$ brings us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=87090 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 If Peters plays at a pro bowl level for a number of years (and plays under the terms of his new deal with Philly) then it was a terrible trade. Everything else is secondary, including the value of the 28th pick in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Ok...I'm glad to be rid of the Jason Peters distraction, and I think his value is overrated. The Bills were winning without him last year, he was a revolving door his first few games, and Chambers and Bell seem to have a lot of upside as potential replacements. So I'm not as enamored with Peters the player as many experts. But I'm not the expert. The experts think he's one of the top OTs in the NFL. So how was this a good trade if he can't be replaced equally with the #28 pick? Ok, yeah, they got a 4th rounder too. Big deal. What are the chances that'll turn into an impact player? I don't even want to hear about the longshot 6th rounder from next year's draft. Camp fodder in all liklihood. We trade our first rounders and end up with players like JP Losman or Drew Bledsoe. We trade a probowl OT and get what is barely a first round pick? WTF? Here's where it doesn't make sense to me: If the top OT out of college is taken with a pick, say, in the top 10 or 15 (and they probably will be), isn't Peter's worth greater than the rookie OT taken early in the draft? Peter's is still young and in his prime, won't require any learning curve, and is a known commodity (no risk). So, why wouldn't the team with the coveted OT on it's board approach the Bills and offer their higher than # 28 pick for Peters? I mean, if OT is their top need, wouldn't it be a better bang for the buck to get Peters? Why then is the # 28 pick a good deal for the Bills? I think the Bills blew it. I believe they could have waited until draft day and made a better deal with a team looking to draft for their OT need. It could have been real sweet to have drafted 2 immediate impact players early in the draft. I'll cross my fingers they find one at #28, but it's more likey to be someone in the James Hardy category. Typical. Peters wasn't going to play this season without his new contract. If he did decide to play, it would be the same as last year. So you make the decision. What would you rather have, Walker at LT and Chambers at RT (Peters sitting out), or Walker at LT and Chambers/draft pick at RT with an extra 1st round pick? The choice is obvious to me. If Peters isn't going to be a part of this team, we might as well get an extra 1st round pick for the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Its early in San Jose isnt it? Too early or too late. Not sure which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Ok...I'm glad to be rid of the Jason Peters distraction, and I think his value is overrated. The Bills were winning without him last year, he was a revolving door his first few games, and Chambers and Bell seem to have a lot of upside as potential replacements. So I'm not as enamored with Peters the player as many experts. But I'm not the expert. The experts think he's one of the top OTs in the NFL. So how was this a good trade if he can't be replaced equally with the #28 pick? Ok, yeah, they got a 4th rounder too. Big deal. What are the chances that'll turn into an impact player? I don't even want to hear about the longshot 6th rounder from next year's draft. Camp fodder in all liklihood. We trade our first rounders and end up with players like JP Losman or Drew Bledsoe. We trade a probowl OT and get what is barely a first round pick? WTF? Here's where it doesn't make sense to me: If the top OT out of college is taken with a pick, say, in the top 10 or 15 (and they probably will be), isn't Peter's worth greater than the rookie OT taken early in the draft? Peter's is still young and in his prime, won't require any learning curve, and is a known commodity (no risk). So, why wouldn't the team with the coveted OT on it's board approach the Bills and offer their higher than # 28 pick for Peters? I mean, if OT is their top need, wouldn't it be a better bang for the buck to get Peters? Why then is the # 28 pick a good deal for the Bills? I think the Bills blew it. I believe they could have waited until draft day and made a better deal with a team looking to draft for their OT need. It could have been real sweet to have drafted 2 immediate impact players early in the draft. I'll cross my fingers they find one at #28, but it's more likey to be someone in the James Hardy category. Typical. So how was this a good trade if he can't be replaced equally with the #28 pick? A first round pick is a first round pick. A lot of organizations would rather have the #28 pick than one much higher because 1) you probably have just as good a chance to get a quality player and 2) It is going to cost you much less to sign him. If you can't get a good player at the #28 pick, then we don't have many good players on the Bills (OK maybe we dont), since all I can think of is 4 players on our roster that were taken that high in Lee Evans, Lynch, Whitner and McKelvin. And to mention a few taken by the Bills higher than #28-Erik Flowers, John McCargo, Mike Williams, McGahee. My point is that the homework done by the organization is just as important if not more than what number the pick is. Peter's is still young and in his prime, won't require any learning curve, and is a known commodity (no risk). Are you serious "No Risk"? How about getting hurt each year. Holding out each year. A risk to get our QB killed on almost any play, because even though he didn't know it, he gave up more sacks than anyone. I'll cross my fingers they find one at #28, but it's more likey to be someone in the James Hardy category. I don't remember anyone, including myself, who thought Hardy was a bad pick right after the draft, in fact, most were enamored that he was still there to be picked. And since it takes receivers longer to adapt to the NFL than running backs, I wouldn't totally give up on Hardy yet. If the top OT out of college is taken with a pick, say, in the top 10 or 15 (and they probably will be), isn't Peter's worth greater than the rookie OT taken early in the draft? I will take Jake Long any day of any year over Peters and he was a rookie. He so far outplayed Peters it was a joke. Peters will never have as good of a year as Long had his rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 This is why is was a good trade: I'm glad to be rid of the Jason Peters distraction, and I think his value is overrated. The Bills were winning without him last year, he was a revolving door his first few games, and Chambers and Bell seem to have a lot of upside as potential replacements. So how was this a good trade if he can't be replaced equally with the #28 pick? Who says he can't be replaced with the #28 pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcb34 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Crap trade by a crap front office. Should have been the 21st pick and a second. No less no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Crap trade by a crap front office. Should have been the 21st pick and a second. No less no more. its nice to sit in a fantasy world and name your price, but that isnt the reality of it. although, from posting here enough, i understand that reality typically has little to do with people's opinions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 A man is talking to his lawyer after his divorce trial MAN: "well I lost the house and car but I got to keep 50% of the other assets and I only have to pay her a third of my salary for the next 5 years, I guess we did the best we could " LAWYER: "well I guess" MAN: "what do you mean you guess, was there something else we could have done?" LAWYER " well I can't help thinking it would have gone better, if you didn't strump the babysitter in front of the nanny-cam" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 OK, so it's less. We don't take the offer from Philly. Maybe by Saturday Philly will increase their offer, or maybe they'll go in a different direction totally and we're left with likey a hold out unless we agree to pay him $11mil. From what I've read Peters value may have decreased as some teams are becoming scared off by his behaviour. Peters has had one very good season and a questionable attitude, so not sure how much more we could have got. Crap trade by a crap front office. Should have been the 21st pick and a second. No less no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 This is thread #5000 on this, but....... I DON'T CARE WHAT THE EXPERTS SAY!!!!!!! He made two Pro Bowls. AND HE DIDN"T DESERVE IT LAST YEAR! Peters was just on Sirius NFL on Monday morning and ADMITTED in his own words that he was completely out of shape last year and then said, and I quote: "I really wasn't looking for a lot of money or anything, I just wanted to get what I deserve". Bye-bye!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 The trade can't be explained to you because you are unable to comprehend anything negative about Peters. So please, keep flogging yourself over it. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 The bottom line is that the Bills did not believe Peters was worth his asking price, and this was the best trade offer they got. The Bills undoubtedly factored in Peters's attitude and that he did not want to play in Buffalo anymore. Despite the noise in the national media that the Bills got robbed ("you don't give up a franchise left tackle for a late-first rounder"), that's apparently all anyone was willing to offer for Peters, so either they are wrong about Peters being a "franchise tackle" or the asking price for one is not all that high, especially when there are a lot of good tackles available in the draft who will cost a lot less than Peters. If this was highway robbery, where were all the other teams who were willing to offer more for Peters? Slighly off topic, but why was Jay Cutler worth 2 first rounders, a third, and a decent starting QB, while Matt Cassel only fetched a 2nd rounder, minus Mike Vrabel? Did the Patriots get ripped off or did the Bears vastly overpay for Cutler? The Patriots have zero history of getting out-traded, so I'm guessing the Bears vastly overpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 First of all if you think Peters has no risk, then i dont know what you watched last year. He has also been injured the last two years. He also held out last year with three years left on his deal. Sorry but if you think he has no risk, then i am not sure i can go further with the arguement as to why the Bills traded him. By "risk" I meant we know he's not going to be bust in the NFL. That's always a possibility with a draftee. Remember can't miss pick Mike Williams? I agree with you about Peters. I'm playing devil's advocate in my statement. The so-called experts are the ones saying he's one of the best OTs in football. Using that criteria, rather than my own lowly opinion, the Bills made a bad deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 Peters wasn't going to play this season without his new contract. If he did decide to play, it would be the same as last year. So you make the decision. What would you rather have, Walker at LT and Chambers at RT (Peters sitting out), or Walker at LT and Chambers/draft pick at RT with an extra 1st round pick? The choice is obvious to me. If Peters isn't going to be a part of this team, we might as well get an extra 1st round pick for the guy. I guess I didn't make my point very clear. Y'all are like broken records. My point was this simple: If I'm NFL team x and I'm going to draft an OT with (e.g.) the # 8 overall pick - why not trade for Probowl OT Jason Peters instead of an unknown college kid who's going to command big $$ anyway? If I'm playing the odds, Peters is the sure bet (with the presumption that the "experts" are correct regarding his probowl stature). It was somewhat of a rhetorical question guys. I was making the argument that Peters doesn't live up to his hype. The answer is fairly obvious...... If NFL team X or somebody else thought he was more worthy than their up and coming draft pick, they would have made the trade. Conclusion: Peters is overrated and may not be that difficult to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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