The Jokeman Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I doubt Penny's dead- I don't think Desmond would've let Ben live if Ben had been successful, unless Ben was able to knock Desmond out or somehow do away with (not kill) him. Ben couldn't have killed Desmond as Eloise told him, the island's not done with him yet. Although the thought Ben killed Penny really depresses me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 So you were cool with a paralyzed man walking, dead people coming back to life, smoke monsters and time travel, but an island moving pushed you over the edge? I'm not over the edge. I still dig the show. It's just the combination of all these things kind of puts a strain on my ability to suspend disbelief sometimes. I feel like I'm gonna start with the nosebleeds. At least some of the characters are acknowledging how ridiculous it all is or at least seems. Specifically Eloise and Jack in the last episode. I appreciate that. I really am a fan of the show. I'm just voicing a little frustration I guess because I want it to make sense and they are constantly adding new mysterious elements all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I'm not over the edge. I still dig the show. It's just the combination of all these things kind of puts a strain on my ability to suspend disbelief sometimes. I feel like I'm gonna start with the nosebleeds. At least some of the characters are acknowledging how ridiculous it all is or at least seems. Specifically Eloise and Jack in the last episode. I appreciate that. I really am a fan of the show. I'm just voicing a little frustration I guess because I want it to make sense and they are constantly adding new mysterious elements all the time. but thats the beauty of the show. if you want it dumbed down there are plenty of reality shows on VH1. i want this show to make my brain hurt with science and plot twists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Penny is dead as a doornail. Ben promised Widmore that he'd kill Penny because Widmore killed Alex (or at least Widmore's thug killed her). When he was on the phone with jack, he said something like "I had to keep a promise to an old friend." Desmond isn't dead but no doubt he's headed back to the island too, just not on the plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Penny is dead as a doornail. Ben promised Widmore that he'd kill Penny because Widmore killed Alex (or at least Widmore's thug killed her). When he was on the phone with jack, he said something like "I had to keep a promise to an old friend." Desmond isn't dead but no doubt he's headed back to the island too, just not on the plane. ....on a sailboat, the same way he originally got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Poor Desmond. Farraday makes him sail all the way to England just so Widmore can tell him to sail all the way to L.A. Then, when he gets there and delivers his message to Eloise, she says, "yeah I know that already--I'm workin' on it." WTF? I'm still really wrapped up in this show, but we're now at a level of ridiculousness that is nuts. I'm curious to see what's next, but part of me wonders if "Moving The Island" is the next generation "Jumping The Shark." One thing I'm enjoying a lot though is how everybody seems to be issuing warnings about not trusting everybody else. Do you really think Des sailed to England? Wouldn't it be easier to fly? Plus how long does it take to sail across the Atlantic, through the Panama Canal, and up the Pacific Coast to L.A.? Weeks if not months. Somehow I don't think the timeline supports it. But I will say the death of Penny, and maybe his son Charlie, would give Des ample reason to return to the island and settle scores with Ben. But that's a little too obvious for Lost, isn't it? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB2SF Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I'm not over the edge. I still dig the show. It's just the combination of all these things kind of puts a strain on my ability to suspend disbelief sometimes. I feel like I'm gonna start with the nosebleeds. At least some of the characters are acknowledging how ridiculous it all is or at least seems. Specifically Eloise and Jack in the last episode. I appreciate that. I really am a fan of the show. I'm just voicing a little frustration I guess because I want it to make sense and they are constantly adding new mysterious elements all the time. I reached the over-the-edge stage at the end of last season and only watch it now because my wife is still into it, and because I figure I need to see it through to the end since I've already sunk so much of my life and my neurons into the show. In losing my ability to suspend disbelief, I'm become increasingly annoyed about sloppy details. For example, Hugo sitting on the airplane with the guitar in the seat next to him? Never would happen. I'm a guitarist, and I know from experience that the guitar would have to be checked (or maybe, with a miracle, crammed into an overhead bin). So I guess we're supposed to not only believe the sci-fi/mystical stuff, but also believe that everyday rules and constraints don't apply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Do you really think Des sailed to England? Wouldn't it be easier to fly? Plus how long does it take to sail across the Atlantic, through the Panama Canal, and up the Pacific Coast to L.A.? Weeks if not months. Somehow I don't think the timeline supports it. Yes, I think it's made clear that Desmond sails to England (from where, I don't know). And from England, he sails to L.A. It definitely is a huge chore for the character, but I have not seen anything to indicate that it's inconsistent with the timeline. It kind of makes me laugh though when I think about all the grief poor Desmond is put through. And he does all this pointless travelling, for what? I remember thinking when Widmore writes down the address for Farraday's mother in L.A., why the hell can't he just give the poor bastard the phone number?! Wouldn't that have been much easier for everyone. Plus, wouldn't that be more in line with Widmore's wish to keep his daughter hidden from the dangerous business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew in CA Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I reached the over-the-edge stage at the end of last season and only watch it now because my wife is still into it, and because I figure I need to see it through to the end since I've already sunk so much of my life and my neurons into the show. In losing my ability to suspend disbelief, I'm become increasingly annoyed about sloppy details. For example, Hugo sitting on the airplane with the guitar in the seat next to him? Never would happen. I'm a guitarist, and I know from experience that the guitar would have to be checked (or maybe, with a miracle, crammed into an overhead bin). So I guess we're supposed to not only believe the sci-fi/mystical stuff, but also believe that everyday rules and constraints don't apply? He bought 78 or so seats on the plane. One of those was for the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB2SF Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 He bought 78 or so seats on the plane. One of those was for the guitar. I thought of that, but it doesn't matter. The guitar is considered carry-on luggage, and if it isn't secured "in the overhead bins or under the seat in front of you", the plane isn't allowed to take off. Other really-starting-to-bug-me details include: - The ability of people to walk through a thick jungle in the dark of night. If they have torches, how do the torches stay lit without a fuel supply? If they don't have torches, how does the moonlight cast such an even glow under the canopy of trees? - Jin being "blown clear" of the boat when it exploded. I mean, seriously? Blown clear? - The bright light from the hatch creating a giant beam of light into the night sky. I mean, New York city used tens of thousands of watts to create the twin towers of light memorial to 9/11. That one emergency light in the hatch did that? OK, I'm just venting. My wife is sick of me venting to her, so it was cathartic to vent to y'all. I'll go back to biting my lip while watching the remainder of the series! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 He bought 78 or so seats on the plane. One of those was for the guitar. Another quirky connection thing... He'd been forced to buy another seat on 815. On 316, he bought the remaining seats willingly, b/c he didn't want people to die in a crash. I'm also now of the firm opinion that 316 didn't crash, the Oceanic 6 (and the things they touch) were just kind of lifted from it, not unlike how the remaining group on the island has experienced the flashes. I wonder, tho... For the original 815 seat, was someone supposed to be in the seat that Hurley had to buy? (Perhaps the "my condolences" guy?) Was the island in 2004? I know that's when the island started moving, but where and when was it when the ajira flight went down? I point to my previous post that they are in the time when DI was starting up, hence the Orchid and well not being there when Locke was going to turn the donkey wheel. My theory: the people on the island had to pretend like they were new DI recruits that had gotten lost and join the DI to survive. Gotta love Lapidus! He's my favorite secondary character. Such great faces. Coming back to this.... Yeah. With Jin in the new mini-bus, looks like their last landing spot was with the early DI period. And also looks like that's where the season premier's first scene where they discover the wheel came from... Faraday has to find a way to get all of them back to the right time of 2004. I'm backtracking on my thinking that the O6 will become an alternate string of reality. I don't think it's necessary, or even possible, according to The Rules for that not to happen. If they're taken to 2004 by Faraday, they need to let the O6 leave the island again for them to be able to return.... and this all has happened anyway --- even tho it maybe hasn't happened --- and there's no way to change it... if anyone follows this. (Getting this from how Faraday hadn't yet warned young Charlotte in his personal memory, yet Charlotte has that memory --- it hasn't hasn't happened, but it will and always has. Reference back to Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse Five" and the Tralfamadorian concept of time). In the 'real world' it may be assumed that all of the O6 were perhaps flying to a reunion or something --- the powers that be with the Others outside network will cover it up. I wonder if Lapidus is back, too. I think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I'm backtracking on my thinking that the O6 will become an alternate string of reality. I don't think it's necessary, or even possible, according to The Rules for that not to happen. If they're taken to 2004 by Faraday, they need to let the O6 leave the island again for them to be able to return.... and this all has happened anyway --- even tho it maybe hasn't happened --- and there's no way to change it... if anyone follows this. (Getting this from how Faraday hadn't yet warned young Charlotte in his personal memory, yet Charlotte has that memory --- it hasn't hasn't happened, but it will and always has. Reference back to Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse Five" and the Tralfamadorian concept of time). In the 'real world' it may be assumed that all of the O6 were perhaps flying to a reunion or something --- the powers that be with the Others outside network will cover it up. I wonder if Lapidus is back, too. I think he is. i think that the "rip" in the field that was hiding the island which allowed the freighter people to get to the island and the O6 to get OFF of the island was a deviation of the string. when we hear Ben and Locke and Eloise keep saying they were never supposed to leave... it makes me think that somehow, because of that anomaly of a tear, they changed their fates. That is why Eloise says that if they don't get the O6 back "God help us all". The producers have confirmed that she was indeed referring to the entire human race. That may be why their (O6) lives have been so troubled since they have been back. I also think that the O6 are Constants for the Island6. And when they get together, they will help stabilize the temporal shifts. Which is why they have shown how all of their previous mainland lives were so intertwined. I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Some late thoughts on an awesome episode... If the O6 landed back on the island in the 70's/80's/Dharma time, and Jin in there, perhaps he encountered a young charlotte and taught her korean? Also, what if the staged plane crash of Oceanic 815 that was "found" was the Ajira flight? In a true time-!@#$, that would explain how Frank said, a few seasons back, "thats not oceanic 815, i was flying that plane (referring to the one in the ocean)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 On a quick side note: I just finished reading the graphic novel Watchmen, a story that Lost creator Damon Lindelhof cites as a huge influence on him. "Lindelof has been quoted as saying that the graphic novel Watchmen, written by Alan Moore, is the greatest piece of popular fiction ever produced, and its effect on Lost is evident many times in the show" The greatest similarity I see between Lost and Watchmen is the the non-linear storytelling. The jumping backward and forward in time. Watching Lost before reading Watchmen made me feel I was watching the TV show. That's all I will say on Watchmen so as not to spoil it for anyone. I'm certainly looking forward to the movie this Friday. I will say one thing: Watchmen was considered by many in Hollywood as a story that could not be made into a movie. After reading it I can see why they think that. Director Zach Snyder did not chose an y easy story to turn into a film. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Some late thoughts on an awesome episode... If the O6 landed back on the island in the 70's/80's/Dharma time, and Jin in there, perhaps he encountered a young charlotte and taught her korean? Also, what if the staged plane crash of Oceanic 815 that was "found" was the Ajira flight? In a true time-!@#$, that would explain how Frank said, a few seasons back, "thats not oceanic 815, i was flying that plane (referring to the one in the ocean)" That's an 'Oooo... I didn't think of that' on the Jin-Charlotte Korean thing. Then again, in her intro-short the girl at the dig site exclaimed that Charlotte was reading the news of the 815 recovery in every language she could find. As for the planes, that's not what Lapidus said when he called the 815 hotline. He said that he was supposed to have flown that plane, and that he knew the pilot "and that's not him" b/c there was no wedding ring. Also, the recovery video showed the Oceanic logos on the plane. But, yeah, add this in to why I think Lapidus is on the island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Cant wait for tonight's show about Locke! Just dont expect too much about anything else. Its apparently a stand alone episode, but I'm sure we'll learn some stuff about the Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 So Ben killed Locke. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZC-Boston Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Was that the best episode of the season yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I thought of that, but it doesn't matter. The guitar is considered carry-on luggage, and if it isn't secured "in the overhead bins or under the seat in front of you", the plane isn't allowed to take off. Other really-starting-to-bug-me details include: - The ability of people to walk through a thick jungle in the dark of night. If they have torches, how do the torches stay lit without a fuel supply? If they don't have torches, how does the moonlight cast such an even glow under the canopy of trees? - Jin being "blown clear" of the boat when it exploded. I mean, seriously? Blown clear? - The bright light from the hatch creating a giant beam of light into the night sky. I mean, New York city used tens of thousands of watts to create the twin towers of light memorial to 9/11. That one emergency light in the hatch did that? OK, I'm just venting. My wife is sick of me venting to her, so it was cathartic to vent to y'all. I'll go back to biting my lip while watching the remainder of the series! If you actually paid attention to the "details" most of the things that "bug you" have an explination. You must be a fun guy to watch TV with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Was that the best episode of the season yet? No. Last night's episode was pretty boring. The best part was the final minute with Locke talking to the new guy. So apparently Ben isn't "special" or "chosen" anymore, or else he wouldn't have crashed along with the plane. Locke seems to know that the island is done with Ben. Funny too how Whidmore seems to be a good guy in all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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