Are things really that bad???

[C.Biscuit97]

Lately, I just couldn't take this board and all the whining that has been going on. Look, there was no one more pissed off than me when it was announced Jauron was coming back. It would have been nice to have a fresh voice and a guy with a proven track record. But it's done. Even though sometimes I hate it, I'm a Bills fan for life. So, I gotta see things with the glass half full.

 

Jauron isn't the best game day coach obviously. However, the players do play for him. So in my mind, we need players that are good enough that even our coaches can't blow games. So let's take a look at our starters and see what people think. When debating the players, please forget about draft position because it's a moot point if they are on the team. just simply evaluate the player.

 

Offense

 

QB - I think it is starting to be shown that QBs being the most important members on a team is a little overrated. Yes, teams with great QBs are at a huge advantage. However, there are very few great QBs. I think this year more than any other has shown that the team around the QB can be the difference.

 

I think part of the problem with Trent is he raised expectations too early. He palyed amazing in the beginning of the season and people forgot he was a 2nd year QB. As the season played out, he played like a 2nd year QB with ups and downs. But in the grand scheme of things, he was good for only having his 2nd season in the league. At this stage, if we have to rely on Edwards to carry us, we won't go far. Another year in the same system should benefit TE. But the team around him needs to be better. Bottomline is this. If Taravis Jackson and Flacco can be playoff QBs, I see no reason why Trent can't.

B-

 

RBs - Best position on the team. I still would like to have a dominate fullback and I think this team, like many others, overlook this. There's a reason why every running back does good behind Lorenzo Neal. Lynch has too many drops, but it is really hard to find much fault with either back. Jackson needs to be re-signed and worked into at least a 60-40 split with Marshawn. i also would like to see them together on the field more.

A

 

WRs - Hardy is the key. If he can develop into any type of threat, this is a much better group. Plexico, a former 1st rounder, didn't catch a td his rookie season. Hardy caught 2. So I don't think it's time to give up on him yet. Evans, for whatever reason, seems to disappear too much for stretches of games. Reed had a great year for him but IMO, he's still a #3 on a good team. Stevie Johnson could be a real impact palyer next year and is a great 7th round pick.

C

 

Tackles - Any talk of trading Peters is borderline retarded. He is just entering the prime of his career. Pay the man (it's not your money anyways) and have him in a good frame all summer long and ready for camp. Walker has his faults, but is still a pretty good lineman and a good guy in the lockeroom. Chambers has become a very good backup. All in all, despite breakdowns, this was a pretty good group.

B-

 

Guards - Dockery is overpaid. And though he does screw up at times (the only time people notice lineman is when they screw up), he is a solid guard. We aren't getting better by cutting him and creating another hole. Plus, the key to any good oline is continuity.

 

Butler is solid, if not that great, of guard. I think he would be best as a really good backup but he is more than servicable as starter. That said, I think we need to add more quality depth here.

C-

 

Center- I thought Preston played as well as he could at teh end of the year. The running game definitely improved. But bottomline is we have backups at best starting at a very critical position. This needs to be upgraded this season. I would like to keep Duke as a backup though.

D

 

Tight End - One of the worst positions on the team. It would be a major help to Trent to have a real threat at TE. Royal is terrible and needs to be gone. I think Fine has real potential but don't know if he is a starter. Schoman has a little nasty streak to him and I like him. But I think they are both #2s at best. I would like to add a big time pass receiver here.

C-

[Tcali]

Lately, I just couldn't take this board and all the whining that has been going on. Look, there was no one more pissed off than me when it was announced Jauron was coming back. It would have been nice to have a fresh voice and a guy with a proven track record. But it's done. Even though sometimes I hate it, I'm a Bills fan for life. So, I gotta see things with the glass half full.

 

Jauron isn't the best game day coach obviously. However, the players do play for him. So in my mind, we need players that are good enough that even our coaches can't blow games. So let's take a look at our starters and see what people think. When debating the players, please forget about draft position because it's a moot point if they are on the team. just simply evaluate the player.

 

Offense

 

QB - I think it is starting to be shown that QBs being the most important members on a team is a little overrated. Yes, teams with great QBs are at a huge advantage. However, there are very few great QBs. I think this year more than any other has shown that the team around the QB can be the difference.

 

I think part of the problem with Trent is he raised expectations too early. He palyed amazing in the beginning of the season and people forgot he was a 2nd year QB. As the season played out, he played like a 2nd year QB with ups and downs. But in the grand scheme of things, he was good for only having his 2nd season in the league. At this stage, if we have to rely on Edwards to carry us, we won't go far. Another year in the same system should benefit TE. But the team around him needs to be better. Bottomline is this. If Taravis Jackson and Flacco can be playoff QBs, I see no reason why Trent can't.

B-

 

RBs - Best position on the team. I still would like to have a dominate fullback and I think this team, like many others, overlook this. There's a reason why every running back does good behind Lorenzo Neal. Lynch has too many drops, but it is really hard to find much fault with either back. Jackson needs to be re-signed and worked into at least a 60-40 split with Marshawn. i also would like to see them together on the field more.

A

 

WRs - Hardy is the key. If he can develop into any type of threat, this is a much better group. Plexico, a former 1st rounder, didn't catch a td his rookie season. Hardy caught 2. So I don't think it's time to give up on him yet. Evans, for whatever reason, seems to disappear too much for stretches of games. Reed had a great year for him but IMO, he's still a #3 on a good team. Stevie Johnson could be a real impact palyer next year and is a great 7th round pick.

C

 

Tackles - Any talk of trading Peters is borderline retarded. He is just entering the prime of his career. Pay the man (it's not your money anyways) and have him in a good frame all summer long and ready for camp. Walker has his faults, but is still a pretty good lineman and a good guy in the lockeroom. Chambers has become a very good backup. All in all, despite breakdowns, this was a pretty good group.

B-

 

Guards - Dockery is overpaid. And though he does screw up at times (the only time people notice lineman is when they screw up), he is a solid guard. We aren't getting better by cutting him and creating another hole. Plus, the key to any good oline is continuity.

 

Butler is solid, if not that great, of guard. I think he would be best as a really good backup but he is more than servicable as starter. That said, I think we need to add more quality depth here.

C-

 

Center- I thought Preston played as well as he could at teh end of the year. The running game definitely improved. But bottomline is we have backups at best starting at a very critical position. This needs to be upgraded this season. I would like to keep Duke as a backup though.

D

 

Tight End - One of the worst positions on the team. It would be a major help to Trent to have a real threat at TE. Royal is terrible and needs to be gone. I think Fine has real potential but don't know if he is a starter. Schoman has a little nasty streak to him and I like him. But I think they are both #2s at best. I would like to add a big time pass receiver here.

C-

yeah we grade out to a C--thats being generous. And less on the lines where it counts

[crazyDingo]

Let me rate the Bills in a slightly different way:

 

2000: 8-8

2001: 3-13

2002: 8-8

2003: 6-10

2004: 9-7

2005: 5-11

2006: 7-9

2007: 7-9

2008: 7-9

 

One winning season in the last 9 years, and that was by 1 game. No playoff victories in 13 years. I wish I shared your optimism but the numbers dont lie.

[DDD]

Lately, I just couldn't take this board and all the whining that has been going on. Look, there was no one more pissed off than me when it was announced Jauron was coming back. It would have been nice to have a fresh voice and a guy with a proven track record. But it's done. Even though sometimes I hate it, I'm a Bills fan for life. So, I gotta see things with the glass half full.

 

Jauron isn't the best game day coach obviously. However, the players do play for him. So in my mind, we need players that are good enough that even our coaches can't blow games. So let's take a look at our starters and see what people think. When debating the players, please forget about draft position because it's a moot point if they are on the team. just simply evaluate the player.

 

Offense

 

QB - I think it is starting to be shown that QBs being the most important members on a team is a little overrated. Yes, teams with great QBs are at a huge advantage. However, there are very few great QBs. I think this year more than any other has shown that the team around the QB can be the difference.

 

I think part of the problem with Trent is he raised expectations too early. He palyed amazing in the beginning of the season and people forgot he was a 2nd year QB. As the season played out, he played like a 2nd year QB with ups and downs. But in the grand scheme of things, he was good for only having his 2nd season in the league. At this stage, if we have to rely on Edwards to carry us, we won't go far. Another year in the same system should benefit TE. But the team around him needs to be better. Bottomline is this. If Taravis Jackson and Flacco can be playoff QBs, I see no reason why Trent can't.

B-

 

RBs - Best position on the team. I still would like to have a dominate fullback and I think this team, like many others, overlook this. There's a reason why every running back does good behind Lorenzo Neal. Lynch has too many drops, but it is really hard to find much fault with either back. Jackson needs to be re-signed and worked into at least a 60-40 split with Marshawn. i also would like to see them together on the field more.

A

 

WRs - Hardy is the key. If he can develop into any type of threat, this is a much better group. Plexico, a former 1st rounder, didn't catch a td his rookie season. Hardy caught 2. So I don't think it's time to give up on him yet. Evans, for whatever reason, seems to disappear too much for stretches of games. Reed had a great year for him but IMO, he's still a #3 on a good team. Stevie Johnson could be a real impact palyer next year and is a great 7th round pick.

C

 

Tackles - Any talk of trading Peters is borderline retarded. He is just entering the prime of his career. Pay the man (it's not your money anyways) and have him in a good frame all summer long and ready for camp. Walker has his faults, but is still a pretty good lineman and a good guy in the lockeroom. Chambers has become a very good backup. All in all, despite breakdowns, this was a pretty good group.

B-

 

Guards - Dockery is overpaid. And though he does screw up at times (the only time people notice lineman is when they screw up), he is a solid guard. We aren't getting better by cutting him and creating another hole. Plus, the key to any good oline is continuity.

 

Butler is solid, if not that great, of guard. I think he would be best as a really good backup but he is more than servicable as starter. That said, I think we need to add more quality depth here.

C-

 

Center- I thought Preston played as well as he could at teh end of the year. The running game definitely improved. But bottomline is we have backups at best starting at a very critical position. This needs to be upgraded this season. I would like to keep Duke as a backup though.

D

 

Tight End - One of the worst positions on the team. It would be a major help to Trent to have a real threat at TE. Royal is terrible and needs to be gone. I think Fine has real potential but don't know if he is a starter. Schoman has a little nasty streak to him and I like him. But I think they are both #2s at best. I would like to add a big time pass receiver here.

C-

 

Hardy did nothing all year for a team that was desperate for a #2 WR. Then he blew out his knee at the end of the year. He's toast. If he comes back fine, but the Bills can't wait for that and it's time to turn the page as far as I'm concerned. Getting a# 2 WR is a high priority this offseason.

[C.Biscuit97]

Defense

 

DTs - Stroud, IMO, was a borderline pro bowler. The defense should be built around him. I like Kyle Williams but feel he would be most effective as a backup/ rotational guy. McCargo killed this group. We need to add a potential starter and depth here.

C+

 

DEs - Schobel killed this group. Denney played decent but he is a backup at best. Kelsay really let me down. He is a backup at best and is getting paid as a starter. He needs to be cut or take a major salary cut. Ellis showed me nothing. This is our biggest need. We need to add 1 or 2 DEs and hope Schobel can come back. IMO, any success we will have next year will depend on this position being upgraded.

D

 

LBs - People has unreal expectations for Poz. He was essentially a rookie. I thought his play really picked up at the end of the season. He won't be Patrick Willis but he will be a good rock in there for years to come. Mitchell was our best pass rushers and made some big palys. He had some breakdowns at time but I think he was a very solid pickup. Ellison is a backup at best. This is one of our top needs.

B-

 

Cbs - Besides, running back this is the strongest position on the team. People who doubt McKelvin look like idiots. He is a flat out playmaker. McGee is very underrated and when healthy, is tough to beat. Greer was starting to turn into our best cb. Corner the corner played really well at the end of the season. With a better pass rush and better coaching (stop playing them so far off the ball), this group could create a lot of turnovers. Youboty just can't stay healthy and probably will be gone.

 

Personally, I would re-sign Greer if it doesn't require insane money. I'd hate to lose part of our strength. Regardless, this group shouldn't be a ddressed in the draft or FAcy.

A-

 

Safety - Very disappointing. Whitner doesn't make enough big plays, but still is a very solid safety. He is very versatile and a good leader. He's not Ed Reed (no one is) but he is a good player. Simpson needs to be replaced. He has struggled coming back from that injury. Wilson and Scott are good backups, that I won't hestiate to start if we decide to upgrade at other positions (which we should).

D

 

Punter - Down year for Moorman, but he's still one of the best.

B+

 

Kicker - I can't stand Lindell. He struggles past 40 yards (shouldn't a NFL kicker be able to make long field goals) and misses clutch kicks. He has been servicable but I want more than servicable. I think there should be some kickers brought in and an open competition should be held. Best kicker wins the job.

C-

 

So that's just a few of my thoughts. I know people think it's the end of the world but i really don't think we are that far off. This draft and how we attack FAcy will tell me a lot about if Jauron knows what he is doing. This needs to be a big guy draft (d-lineman, o-linemen, linebacker, and possibly a QB). We should be built around our defense and special teams. Edwards just needs to manage games and hopefully in time, he will be come an elite QB. But step away from the edge because it's not that bad.

 

P.S. Or it's quite possible that years of watching the Bills has made me completely insane.

[silvermike]

Get a good center instead of the belligerent bead curtain we started at the end of last season. Watch in amazement as the guards start looking better.

 

Then pray for Edwards and Hardy to show real improvement while Schouman and Fine, plus a new acquisition, ensure that Robert Royal has no place on this roster.

[extrahammer]

What about Mike Goff? He's a leader for the Chargers, motivator, and very intense. He's a little older, but if we're looking at this realistically, Ralph isn't going to spend big $$$. Goff could get one last nice contract here in Buffalo.

[C.Biscuit97]

Let me rate the Bills in a slightly different way:

 

2000: 8-8

2001: 3-13

2002: 8-8

2003: 6-10

2004: 9-7

2005: 5-11

2006: 7-9

2007: 7-9

2008: 7-9

 

One winning season in the last 9 years, and that was by 1 game. No playoff victories in 13 years. I wish I shared your optimism but the numbers dont lie.

 

 

Agreed. At the same time, those past years have nothing to do with 2009. If The Bills can address their major needs at pass rushing and center (though admittedly, they're haven't in the past), they aren't that far off. The AFC East is not that great of a division.

[C.Biscuit97]

What about Mike Goff? He's a leader for the Chargers, motivator, and very intense. He's a little older, but if we're looking at this realistically, Ralph isn't going to spend big $$$. Goff could get one last nice contract here in Buffalo.

 

 

I'm always in favor of taking care of needs before the draft. I think it is especially good to get veteran NFL lineman who played well for a good offense. I would be very happy with Goff. And then I would draft 2 pass rushers (or a TE if a special was sitting there in the 2nd).

[BADOLBILZ]

TE is an "F". Schouman or Fine may develop, but so might Chris Ellis or James Hardy or whoever. Right now, the TE's plain suck and there is no reason to truly expect better. The Bills have long been the last one's in the NFL to get the memo that you beat cover 2 by attacking the middle of the field with a seam stretching TE. Edwards badly needs big targets to help him shake his fear of throwing the ball intermediate and deep. Johnson and Hardy may help, but a gamebreaking TE would be huge.

 

DE is not as bad as you list IF Schobel comes back near top form, and he should. They need some athletes for this position if they intend to keep playing this style of defense, but as bad as it is watching the opposing QB calmly stand tall in the pocket against us, the key for this team is doing whatever it can to make their own QB position most effective.

 

The Bills do not have SB talent, but the talent thing is a cop out on the Bills part. Good coaching gets the Bills to the playoffs this past season considering how weak the schedule was. It's going to take absolutely SUPERIOR talent to transform Jauron from a loser to a consistent winner, and the truth is, it's easier and cheaper to be well coached than to outmaneuver 31 other personnel departments.

[C.Biscuit97]

TE is an "F". Schouman or Fine may develop, but so might Chris Ellis or James Hardy or whoever. Right now, the TE's plain suck and there is no reason to truly expect better. The Bills have long been the last one's in the NFL to get the memo that you beat cover 2 by attacking the middle of the field with a seam stretching TE. Edwards badly needs big targets to help him shake his fear of throwing the ball intermediate and deep. Johnson and Hardy may help, but a gamebreaking TE would be huge.

 

DE is not as bad as you list IF Schobel comes back near top form, and he should. They need some athletes for this position if they intend to keep playing this style of defense, but as bad as it is watching the opposing QB calmly stand tall in the pocket against us, the key for this team is doing whatever it can to make their own QB position most effective.

 

The Bills do not have SB talent, but the talent thing is a cop out on the Bills part. Good coaching gets the Bills to the playoffs this past season considering how weak the schedule was. It's going to take absolutely SUPERIOR talent to transform Jauron from a loser to a consistent winner, and the truth is, it's easier and cheaper to be well coached than to outmaneuver 31 other personnel departments.

 

 

Good points all around and it's hard to argue.

 

But are Childress, Wisenhunt, Harabaugh, etc. really good coaches? I really don't think they are but they surround themselves with great talent. Jauron is not a good game day coach. It is obvious. But there is a little luck involved. If Lindell makes a kick against Cleveland, if Trent doesn't get hurt, if the guy on Dallas doesn't hit a bomb twice in a row, if Elam doesn't make a run on the field goal, etc.

 

and please don't think i think Jauron is a good coach. However, I do think he has been very unlucky and has been dealt with crappy QBs. As sad as it, Edwards is probably the best QB Jauron has ever had. Hopefully with upgrades to the personnel (especially pass rushing), it will mask some of Jauron's short comings.

[extrahammer]

I'm always in favor of taking care of needs before the draft. I think it is especially good to get veteran NFL lineman who played well for a good offense. I would be very happy with Goff. And then I would draft 2 pass rushers (or a TE if a special was sitting there in the 2nd).

 

Goff is a stand up character guy who could really help the Bills offensive line entirely. The Bills starting offensive line average age is 26 years old. Mike is 32.

[ans4e64]

QBs: C

RBs: A

WRs: C+

TEs: F

OTs: B+

OGs: B-

OC: C+

 

 

DEs: F

DTs: C+

LBs: C

CBs: B+

S: B-

[RayFinkle]

QBs: C

RBs: A

WRs: C

TEs: D-

OTs: B

OGs: C

OC: D

 

 

DEs: F

DTs: C

LBs: C

CBs: B+

S: C-

[Dark Fan]

Defense

 

DTs - Stroud, IMO, was a borderline pro bowler. The defense should be built around him. I like Kyle Williams but feel he would be most effective as a backup/ rotational guy. McCargo killed this group. We need to add a potential starter and depth here.

C+

 

DEs - Schobel killed this group. Denney played decent but he is a backup at best. Kelsay really let me down. He is a backup at best and is getting paid as a starter. He needs to be cut or take a major salary cut. Ellis showed me nothing. This is our biggest need. We need to add 1 or 2 DEs and hope Schobel can come back. IMO, any success we will have next year will depend on this position being upgraded.

D

 

LBs - People has unreal expectations for Poz. He was essentially a rookie. I thought his play really picked up at the end of the season. He won't be Patrick Willis but he will be a good rock in there for years to come. Mitchell was our best pass rushers and made some big palys. He had some breakdowns at time but I think he was a very solid pickup. Ellison is a backup at best. This is one of our top needs.

B-

 

Cbs - Besides, running back this is the strongest position on the team. People who doubt McKelvin look like idiots. He is a flat out playmaker. McGee is very underrated and when healthy, is tough to beat. Greer was starting to turn into our best cb. Corner the corner played really well at the end of the season. With a better pass rush and better coaching (stop playing them so far off the ball), this group could create a lot of turnovers. Youboty just can't stay healthy and probably will be gone.

 

Personally, I would re-sign Greer if it doesn't require insane money. I'd hate to lose part of our strength. Regardless, this group shouldn't be a ddressed in the draft or FAcy.

A-

 

Safety - Very disappointing. Whitner doesn't make enough big plays, but still is a very solid safety. He is very versatile and a good leader. He's not Ed Reed (no one is) but he is a good player. Simpson needs to be replaced. He has struggled coming back from that injury. Wilson and Scott are good backups, that I won't hestiate to start if we decide to upgrade at other positions (which we should).

D

 

Punter - Down year for Moorman, but he's still one of the best.

B+

 

Kicker - I can't stand Lindell. He struggles past 40 yards (shouldn't a NFL kicker be able to make long field goals) and misses clutch kicks. He has been servicable but I want more than servicable. I think there should be some kickers brought in and an open competition should be held. Best kicker wins the job.

C-

 

So that's just a few of my thoughts. I know people think it's the end of the world but i really don't think we are that far off. This draft and how we attack FAcy will tell me a lot about if Jauron knows what he is doing. This needs to be a big guy draft (d-lineman, o-linemen, linebacker, and possibly a QB). We should be built around our defense and special teams. Edwards just needs to manage games and hopefully in time, he will be come an elite QB. But step away from the edge because it's not that bad.

 

P.S. Or it's quite possible that years of watching the Bills has made me completely insane.

 

I'll opt for insane when your conclusion doesn't match your analysis that over half our starters should really be "back-ups" and thats just for the defense.

[metzelaars_lives]

Defense

 

DTs - Stroud, IMO, was a borderline pro bowler. The defense should be built around him. I like Kyle Williams but feel he would be most effective as a backup/ rotational guy. McCargo killed this group. We need to add a potential starter and depth here.

C+

 

DEs - Schobel killed this group. Denney played decent but he is a backup at best. Kelsay really let me down. He is a backup at best and is getting paid as a starter. He needs to be cut or take a major salary cut. Ellis showed me nothing. This is our biggest need. We need to add 1 or 2 DEs and hope Schobel can come back. IMO, any success we will have next year will depend on this position being upgraded.

D

 

LBs - People has unreal expectations for Poz. He was essentially a rookie. I thought his play really picked up at the end of the season. He won't be Patrick Willis but he will be a good rock in there for years to come. Mitchell was our best pass rushers and made some big palys. He had some breakdowns at time but I think he was a very solid pickup. Ellison is a backup at best. This is one of our top needs.

B-

 

Cbs - Besides, running back this is the strongest position on the team. People who doubt McKelvin look like idiots. He is a flat out playmaker. McGee is very underrated and when healthy, is tough to beat. Greer was starting to turn into our best cb. Corner the corner played really well at the end of the season. With a better pass rush and better coaching (stop playing them so far off the ball), this group could create a lot of turnovers. Youboty just can't stay healthy and probably will be gone.

 

Personally, I would re-sign Greer if it doesn't require insane money. I'd hate to lose part of our strength. Regardless, this group shouldn't be a ddressed in the draft or FAcy.

A-

 

Safety - Very disappointing. Whitner doesn't make enough big plays, but still is a very solid safety. He is very versatile and a good leader. He's not Ed Reed (no one is) but he is a good player. Simpson needs to be replaced. He has struggled coming back from that injury. Wilson and Scott are good backups, that I won't hestiate to start if we decide to upgrade at other positions (which we should).

D

 

Punter - Down year for Moorman, but he's still one of the best.

B+

 

Kicker - I can't stand Lindell. He struggles past 40 yards (shouldn't a NFL kicker be able to make long field goals) and misses clutch kicks. He has been servicable but I want more than servicable. I think there should be some kickers brought in and an open competition should be held. Best kicker wins the job.

C-

 

So that's just a few of my thoughts. I know people think it's the end of the world but i really don't think we are that far off. This draft and how we attack FAcy will tell me a lot about if Jauron knows what he is doing. This needs to be a big guy draft (d-lineman, o-linemen, linebacker, and possibly a QB). We should be built around our defense and special teams. Edwards just needs to manage games and hopefully in time, he will be come an elite QB. But step away from the edge because it's not that bad.

 

P.S. Or it's quite possible that years of watching the Bills has made me completely insane.

 

Why does everybody think we should bring back Greer? The guy's gonna command around $7 million a season and we already have one solid starting CB and there's absolutely no way McKelvin doesn't start next season. Youboty, before he got hurt, looked like he could've been better than any of em and Corner looks like a keeper as well. I know it's good to have depth at CB, don't get me wrong, but with all these needs, we can't afford to have that much depth at one position. Wouldn't you rather they drop $7 mill on a pass rusher?

[Matt in KC]

I'll opt for insane when your conclusion doesn't match your analysis that over half our starters should really be "back-ups" and thats just for the defense.

Dark Fan, I'm not sure how you calculate that's over half our starters bolded. Dark indeed....

 

Williams

Denney

Ellison

Scott / Wilson / Simpson

Lindell

 

Denney, Ellison, and Scott are backups that were filling in because of injury. Kyle Williams was fine IMO. Not great, but a decent starter, certainly not a glaring weakness. I thought Scott was good, and very good near the LOS.

 

Yes, Lindell had a down year, but I'm no where near out of patience with him (and also don't have a problem with competition so long as it's not just a personnel gimmick).

 

C.Biscuit97 gave kicker a C- and DTs a C+. That sounds level-headed to me, not insane. Going into the offseason needing 3-4 defenders is not end-of-the-world stuff, especially when one of those positions will see the return of a Pro Bowler (Schobel).

 

Yes, we're probably going to have to settle with second tier FAs or throw in young players somewhere in the lineup, but that happens to most teams each year.

 

If you're trying to do better than Kyle Williams at every position, then I thnik you're crazy. As a GM, of course you push for that, but as a fan I'm telling you it won't happen in a year. But, I think we can improve next year, maybe even enough to get to the playoffs. (I AM a glass half-full kinda guy.)

[Kipers Hair]

Lately, I just couldn't take this board and all the whining that has been going on. Look, there was no one more pissed off than me when it was announced Jauron was coming back. It would have been nice to have a fresh voice and a guy with a proven track record. But it's done. Even though sometimes I hate it, I'm a Bills fan for life. So, I gotta see things with the glass half full.

 

Jauron isn't the best game day coach obviously. However, the players do play for him. So in my mind, we need players that are good enough that even our coaches can't blow games. So let's take a look at our starters and see what people think. When debating the players, please forget about draft position because it's a moot point if they are on the team. just simply evaluate the player.

 

Offense

 

QB - I think it is starting to be shown that QBs being the most important members on a team is a little overrated. Yes, teams with great QBs are at a huge advantage. However, there are very few great QBs. I think this year more than any other has shown that the team around the QB can be the difference.

 

I think part of the problem with Trent is he raised expectations too early. He palyed amazing in the beginning of the season and people forgot he was a 2nd year QB. As the season played out, he played like a 2nd year QB with ups and downs. But in the grand scheme of things, he was good for only having his 2nd season in the league. At this stage, if we have to rely on Edwards to carry us, we won't go far. Another year in the same system should benefit TE. But the team around him needs to be better. Bottomline is this. If Taravis Jackson and Flacco can be playoff QBs, I see no reason why Trent can't.

B-

 

RBs - Best position on the team. I still would like to have a dominate fullback and I think this team, like many others, overlook this. There's a reason why every running back does good behind Lorenzo Neal. Lynch has too many drops, but it is really hard to find much fault with either back. Jackson needs to be re-signed and worked into at least a 60-40 split with Marshawn. i also would like to see them together on the field more.

A

 

WRs - Hardy is the key. If he can develop into any type of threat, this is a much better group. Plexico, a former 1st rounder, didn't catch a td his rookie season. Hardy caught 2. So I don't think it's time to give up on him yet. Evans, for whatever reason, seems to disappear too much for stretches of games. Reed had a great year for him but IMO, he's still a #3 on a good team. Stevie Johnson could be a real impact palyer next year and is a great 7th round pick.

C

 

Tackles - Any talk of trading Peters is borderline retarded. He is just entering the prime of his career. Pay the man (it's not your money anyways) and have him in a good frame all summer long and ready for camp. Walker has his faults, but is still a pretty good lineman and a good guy in the lockeroom. Chambers has become a very good backup. All in all, despite breakdowns, this was a pretty good group.

B-

 

Guards - Dockery is overpaid. And though he does screw up at times (the only time people notice lineman is when they screw up), he is a solid guard. We aren't getting better by cutting him and creating another hole. Plus, the key to any good oline is continuity.

 

Butler is solid, if not that great, of guard. I think he would be best as a really good backup but he is more than servicable as starter. That said, I think we need to add more quality depth here.

C-

 

Center- I thought Preston played as well as he could at teh end of the year. The running game definitely improved. But bottomline is we have backups at best starting at a very critical position. This needs to be upgraded this season. I would like to keep Duke as a backup though.

D

 

Tight End - One of the worst positions on the team. It would be a major help to Trent to have a real threat at TE. Royal is terrible and needs to be gone. I think Fine has real potential but don't know if he is a starter. Schoman has a little nasty streak to him and I like him. But I think they are both #2s at best. I would like to add a big time pass receiver here.

C-

Yes...yes they are that bad. You are not accounting for ownership and the coaching...things are that bad. We went 1-3 against playoff teams this year and that is about the right reflection for this team - simply not good enough - a .500 team if there ever was...

[JCBoston]

Dark Fan, I'm not sure how you calculate that's over half our starters bolded. Dark indeed....

 

Williams

Denney

Ellison

Scott / Wilson / Simpson

Lindell

 

Denney, Ellison, and Scott are backups that were filling in because of injury. Kyle Williams was fine IMO. Not great, but a decent starter, certainly not a glaring weakness. I thought Scott was good, and very good near the LOS.

 

Yes, Lindell had a down year, but I'm no where near out of patience with him (and also don't have a problem with competition so long as it's not just a personnel gimmick).

 

C.Biscuit97 gave kicker a C- and DTs a C+. That sounds level-headed to me, not insane. Going into the offseason needing 3-4 defenders is not end-of-the-world stuff, especially when one of those positions will see the return of a Pro Bowler (Schobel).

 

Yes, we're probably going to have to settle with second tier FAs or throw in young players somewhere in the lineup, but that happens to most teams each year.

 

If you're trying to do better than Kyle Williams at every position, then I thnik you're crazy. As a GM, of course you push for that, but as a fan I'm telling you it won't happen in a year. But, I think we can improve next year, maybe even enough to get to the playoffs. (I AM a glass half-full kinda guy.)

 

And if you honestly think the defensive is to blame for the 2008 season going in the tank, you're crazy.

[Beerball]

Offense

 

QB - I think it is starting to be shown that QBs being the most important members on a team is a little overrated. Yes, teams with great QBs are at a huge advantage. However, there are very few great QBs. I think this year more than any other has shown that the team around the QB can be the difference.

Let me know which QBs you wouldn't trade Edwards for straight up:

Tom Brady

Drew Brees

Marc Bulger

Jason Campbell

Matt Cassel

Kerry Collins

Jay Cutler

Jake Delhomme

Brett Favre

Joe Flaco

Jeff Garcia

David Garrard

Matt Hasselbeck

Tavaris Jackson

Eli Manning

Peyton Manning

Donovan McNabb

Kyle Orton

Carson Palmer

Chad Pennington

Brady Quinn

Philip Rivers

Aaron Rodgers

Ben Roethlisberger

Tony Romo

JaMarcus Russell

Matt Ryan

Matt Schaub

Tyler Thigpen

Kurt Warner

Vince Young

 

Assuming you want to win in 2009...If you can't find at least a bakers dozen you prefer I question your decision making. IMO--Edwards is lower mediocre at this point.

[Johnny Coli]

Giving the QBs a B- is far too high of a grade. The starter played bad in more games than he showed promise in, having a huge hand in a mid-season swoon that had the team going from 1st to last in the division, and the ineffective backup was allowed to walk away. How does that warrant a B-? They're still averaging under 200 yards per game, barely improved on last season's passing TD total by only 2 TDs, and threw 1 more INT. Taking into consideration the soft schedule they had this year compared to last year and you could make the case that the passing game has regressed. Badly. That's not slightly above average. That's terrible.

[H2o]

Let me know which QBs you wouldn't trade Edwards for straight up:

Tom Brady

Drew Brees

Marc Bulger

Jason Campbell

Matt Cassel

Kerry Collins

Jay Cutler

Jake Delhomme

Brett Favre

Joe Flaco

Jeff Garcia

David Garrard

Matt Hasselbeck

Tavaris Jackson

Eli Manning

Peyton Manning

Donovan McNabb

Kyle Orton

Carson Palmer

Chad Pennington

Brady Quinn

Philip Rivers

Aaron Rodgers

Ben Roethlisberger

Tony Romo

JaMarcus Russell

Matt Ryan

Matt Schaub

Tyler Thigpen

Kurt Warner

Vince Young

 

Assuming you want to win in 2009...If you can't find at least a bakers dozen you prefer I question your decision making. IMO--Edwards is lower mediocre at this point.

The ones in bold are the ones that I would not trade TrINT for. That makes 23 other QB's that I would rather have right now.

[Poeticlaw]

Lately, I just couldn't take this board and all the whining that has been going on. Look, there was no one more pissed off than me when it was announced Jauron was coming back. It would have been nice to have a fresh voice and a guy with a proven track record. But it's done. Even though sometimes I hate it, I'm a Bills fan for life. So, I gotta see things with the glass half full.

 

Jauron isn't the best game day coach obviously. However, the players do play for him. So in my mind, we need players that are good enough that even our coaches can't blow games. So let's take a look at our starters and see what people think. When debating the players, please forget about draft position because it's a moot point if they are on the team. just simply evaluate the player.

 

Offense

 

QB - I think it is starting to be shown that QBs being the most important members on a team is a little overrated. Yes, teams with great QBs are at a huge advantage. However, there are very few great QBs. I think this year more than any other has shown that the team around the QB can be the difference.

 

I think part of the problem with Trent is he raised expectations too early. He palyed amazing in the beginning of the season and people forgot he was a 2nd year QB. As the season played out, he played like a 2nd year QB with ups and downs. But in the grand scheme of things, he was good for only having his 2nd season in the league. At this stage, if we have to rely on Edwards to carry us, we won't go far. Another year in the same system should benefit TE. But the team around him needs to be better. Bottomline is this. If Taravis Jackson and Flacco can be playoff QBs, I see no reason why Trent can't.

B-- C- I guess ignorance is bliss when your winning. However you look back at those games it wasnt until the 4th qtr in a couple of those games where he actually looked decent. Maybe with a real TE threat and another Possesion reciever he might be capable of being a starting QB but to me he is best suited as a back up.

 

RBs - Best position on the team. I still would like to have a dominate fullback and I think this team, like many others, overlook this. There's a reason why every running back does good behind Lorenzo Neal. Lynch has too many drops, but it is really hard to find much fault with either back. Jackson needs to be re-signed and worked into at least a 60-40 split with Marshawn. i also would like to see them together on the field more.

A Agree best running tandem we have had in a very long time. Under utilized though.

 

WRs - Hardy is the key. If he can develop into any type of threat, this is a much better group. Plexico, a former 1st rounder, didn't catch a td his rookie season. Hardy caught 2. So I don't think it's time to give up on him yet. Evans, for whatever reason, seems to disappear too much for stretches of games. Reed had a great year for him but IMO, he's still a #3 on a good team. Stevie Johnson could be a real impact palyer next year and is a great 7th round pick.

C D+ Reed seems to be pretty good in clutch plays under 9 yards and Lee is only good for deep balls but rarely can catch the single coverage route running ones. If we can get a true possession reciever to go with reed and evans you will see more production out of these players and an increase in grademy grade is based on 5 recievers not just one.

Tackles - Any talk of trading Peters is borderline retarded. He is just entering the prime of his career. Pay the man (it's not your money anyways) and have him in a good frame all summer long and ready for camp. Walker has his faults, but is still a pretty good lineman and a good guy in the lockeroom. Chambers has become a very good backup. All in all, despite breakdowns, this was a pretty good group.

B- ok

 

Guards - Dockery is overpaid. And though he does screw up at times (the only time people notice lineman is when they screw up), he is a solid guard. We aren't getting better by cutting him and creating another hole. Plus, the key to any good oline is continuity.

 

Butler is solid, if not that great, of guard. I think he would be best as a really good backup but he is more than servicable as starter. That said, I think we need to add more quality depth here.

C- C+

 

Center- I thought Preston played as well as he could at teh end of the year. The running game definitely improved. But bottomline is we have backups at best starting at a very critical position. This needs to be upgraded this season. I would like to keep Duke as a backup though.

D FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF- Neither Center is worth keeping as a starter. The passing game and the running game both start with the center. If we can get a true center we should see significant improvemnets in both passing and Rushing.Tight End - One of the worst positions on the team. It would be a major help to Trent to have a real threat at TE. Royal is terrible and needs to be gone. I think Fine has real potential but don't know if he is a starter. Schoman has a little nasty streak to him and I like him. But I think they are both #2s at best. I would like to add a big time pass receiver here.

C- D- It seems like Royal can only catch the uncatchable but cannot catch the catchable and there is no other TE capable of being a starter for that unit another NEED that if we find the right pass catching threat it would don wonders for the offense.

[ans4e64]

Giving the QBs a B- is far too high of a grade. The starter played bad in more games than he showed promise in, having a huge hand in a mid-season swoon that had the team going from 1st to last in the division, and the ineffective backup was allowed to walk away. How does that warrant a B-? They're still averaging under 200 yards per game, barely improved on last season's passing TD total by only 2 TDs, and threw 1 more INT. Taking into consideration the soft schedule they had this year compared to last year and you could make the case that the passing game has regressed. Badly. That's not slightly above average. That's terrible.

 

I agree. We don't have a quality starter, and we don't have a quality backup. I don't know how that warrants a B.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Giving the QBs a B- is far too high of a grade. The starter played bad in more games than he showed promise in, having a huge hand in a mid-season swoon that had the team going from 1st to last in the division, and the ineffective backup was allowed to walk away. How does that warrant a B-? They're still averaging under 200 yards per game, barely improved on last season's passing TD total by only 2 TDs, and threw 1 more INT. Taking into consideration the soft schedule they had this year compared to last year and you could make the case that the passing game has regressed. Badly. That's not slightly above average. That's terrible.

In the spirit of positive thinking and ego stroking, everybody gets a baseless passing grade. I think the OP was mean spirited in not giving everyone an A+ for working hard and trying. It's tough to win in the NFL, and these guys came to work every single day.

[MDH]

The talent level on the Bills is decent - but with the coaching staff they have it doesn't add up to much. That being said I think you've overrated several positions - most noticeably QB. The Bills have C to C- QBing at this point. Sure, it MIGHT be better next year but right now it's average at best. The reason Evans disappears for long stretches is because Trent ignores him. He actually went an ENTIRE game without targeting his #1 WR...

[C.Biscuit97]

Let me know which QBs you wouldn't trade Edwards for straight up:

Tom Brady

Drew Brees

Marc Bulger

Jason Campbell

Matt Cassel

Kerry Collins

Jay Cutler

Jake Delhomme

Brett Favre

Joe Flaco

Jeff Garcia

David Garrard

Matt Hasselbeck

Tavaris Jackson

Eli Manning

Peyton Manning

Donovan McNabb

Kyle Orton

Carson Palmer

Chad Pennington

Brady Quinn

Philip Rivers

Aaron Rodgers

Ben Roethlisberger

Tony Romo

JaMarcus Russell

Matt Ryan

Matt Schaub

Tyler Thigpen

Kurt Warner

Vince Young

 

Assuming you want to win in 2009...If you can't find at least a bakers dozen you prefer I question your decision making. IMO--Edwards is lower mediocre at this point.

 

The ones in bold I won't trade TE for.

 

Honestly, this list is always up to personal judgment. You have to cnsider putting these guys in the Bills' situation right now. I would love to have Vine Young while most people think he is garbage. Bulger has had an amazing career but I think he is done. Cassell looks great with the 2nd best receiving core and best coach in football. On the Bills, he would look like the backup he is. We complain about Edwards, but Schaub is more injury prone than TE and the Texans gave up a lot to give him. How much longer would Warner play for and do we consider the fact he blows in cold weather??? Hasselback has a back injury and could be done. garrad looked terrible this year. Pennington would suck playing in Buffalo. How is Palmer gonna perform off another major injury because he was struggling before the injury.

 

Bottomline, every team has questions about their QBs. Given the fact, TE is in his 2nd year, I think he was a pretty solid QB.

[C.Biscuit97]

I agree. We don't have a quality starter, and we don't have a quality backup. I don't know how that warrants a B.

 

 

Here's a list of every QB that ever played. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/qbindex.htm Please check out their 2nd seasons (especially those who went straight from college and not played in another league ie Jim Kelly or Kurt Warner), Edwards has comparable stats to most. So if I compare Edwards to most 2nd year starting QBs, he was pretty good.

 

In fairness, I probably did rate him to high in comparison to the rest of the league. He performed average or slightly below average. But overall, he has done a lot more positive than negative things for a 2 year player.

[C.Biscuit97]

In the spirit of positive thinking and ego stroking, everybody gets a baseless passing grade. I think the OP was mean spirited in not giving everyone an A+ for working hard and trying. It's tough to win in the NFL, and these guys came to work every single day.

 

 

Or I'm not just a whiny, little girl who acts like the world is ending about everything that concerns the Bills. If you average my grades, it come out to about a C or C-. The Bills finished 7-9, which is slightly below average. How doesn't that make sense? Yes, the end of the season blew but it really isn't that as bad as doomsday posters make it out to be.

 

And instead of trying to be witty, why don't you offer your grades? Let me guess - all Fs because this is the worst football team ever. You love being miserable.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Or I'm not just a whiny, little girl who acts like the world is ending about everything that concerns the Bills. If you average my grades, it come out to about a C or C-. The Bills finished 7-9, which is slightly below average. How doesn't that make sense? Yes, the end of the season blew but it really isn't that as bad as doomsday posters make it out to be.

 

And instead of trying to be witty, why don't you offer your grades? Let me guess - all Fs because this is the worst football team ever. You love being miserable.

Why don't you tell us what your grading scale actually means? If it is just something you pulled out of your rear, say so.

[Fewell733]

this is rated on the year they had, not their potential

 

QB - B-

RB - A-

FB - C

LT - Incomplete

LG - C

OC - D

RG - B-

RT - B

 

WR1 - B- (Evans)

WR2 - A- (Reed)

 

TE - C

 

 

DE - B- (Kelsay) - good against run, no pass rush

DE - B- (Denney) - same

DT - A- (Stroud)

DT - B (Williams)

MLB - C+

OLB - C+

OLB - C+

CB - B+

CB - B+

SS - B-

FS - C

[C.Biscuit97]

Why don't you tell us what your grading scale actually means? If it is just something you pulled out of your rear, say so.

 

I offered the grades based on my opinions and not be an overreacting, pessimist like most here. I offered them for discuss and welcomed people to provide their own, which some people did. I think I did a good job, especially when remembering players are at different stages of their career (Poz should be rated differently than a veteran like Chris Kelsey).

 

So are you gonna provide your own and further the discussion? Or you just gonna female-dog about how bad the Bills are, which seems to be your specialty?

[JJBuffalo]

You two guys are nuts if you would trade TE for Jeff Garcia.

[iinii]

Let me know which QBs you wouldn't trade Edwards for straight up:

Tom Brady

Drew Brees

Marc Bulger

Jason Campbell

Matt Cassel

Kerry Collins

Jay Cutler

Jake Delhomme

Brett Favre

Joe Flaco

Jeff Garcia

David Garrard

Matt Hasselbeck

Tavaris Jackson

Eli Manning

Peyton Manning

Donovan McNabb

Kyle Orton

Carson Palmer

Chad Pennington

Brady Quinn

Philip Rivers

Aaron Rodgers

Ben Roethlisberger

Tony Romo

JaMarcus Russell

Matt Ryan

Matt Schaub

Tyler Thigpen

Kurt Warner

Vince Young

 

Assuming you want to win in 2009...If you can't find at least a bakers dozen you prefer I question your decision making. IMO--Edwards is lower mediocre at this point.

go ahead take vince (i don't want to go back in they booed) young. i'll see you at the bust stop. vince can't take the pressure of playing in nashville, imagine buffalo. You think he lost his cookies in Tennessee, in Western New York he would meltdown like frosty the snowman. i can take apart anynumber of those q.b. trades but don't feel the need since you named how many losers? like the original post and others concur we need defensive help. our draft needs to be focused on position like the Titans did last year. Draft defensive and offensive linemen along with a linebacker to take ellison's position. we need someone to rotate in to collapse the pocket along with an end and linebacker with a bad 'tude to get pressure so the opposing quarterback does not have time to sip his tea and wait for someone to come open. give DJ (you have to at this point) one more year to put all the pieces in place and then we can get a real coach to carry this young team to the promised land.

[iinii]

The ones in bold are the ones that I would not trade TrINT for. That makes 23 other QB's that I would rather have right now.

you would rather have favre? Sports Illustrated at the beginning of the season ran an article predicting exactly what happened to him this year. For the last five years Brett looks real good to open the season and then fades miserably down the stretch. throws more interceptions than touchdowns in December and January. Favre is done.

[RayFinkle]

DE - B- (Kelsay) - good against run, no pass rush

DE - B- (Denney) - same

DT - A- (Stroud)

DT - B (Williams)

You really are Dick Jauron aren't you?

[C.Biscuit97]

go ahead take vince (i don't want to go back in they booed) young. i'll see you at the bust stop. vince can't take the pressure of playing in nashville, imagine buffalo. You think he lost his cookies in Tennessee, in Western New York he would meltdown like frosty the snowman. i can take apart anynumber of those q.b. trades but don't feel the need since you named how many losers? like the original post and others concur we need defensive help. our draft needs to be focused on position like the Titans did last year. Draft defensive and offensive linemen along with a linebacker to take ellison's position. we need someone to rotate in to collapse the pocket along with an end and linebacker with a bad 'tude to get pressure so the opposing quarterback does not have time to sip his tea and wait for someone to come open. give DJ (you have to at this point) one more year to put all the pieces in place and then we can get a real coach to carry this young team to the promised land.

 

Pretty much agreed. I just think Young could be very effective in the right situation. Tennessee has some of the worse receivers in the NFL and Collins has basically just played the Dilfer role. Young will get another shot to play and I think he will do well.

[JPDontletthedoorhityourars]

Let me rate the Bills in a slightly different way:

 

2000: 8-8

2001: 3-13

2002: 8-8

2003: 6-10

2004: 9-7

2005: 5-11

2006: 7-9

2007: 7-9

2008: 7-9

 

One winning season in the last 9 years, and that was by 1 game. No playoff victories in 13 years. I wish I shared your optimism but the numbers dont lie.

 

 

The ONLY reason we went 9-7 in '04 was because we had the easy schedule against the what else? The NFC West! Even Mularkey wasn't bad enough to screw that up like Jauron did this year. We eventually proved NOT to be a playoff team when we lost to the Steelers Practice squad. Unfortunately, that was Phat Pat's last game...a monster of a game. I guess he was trying to prove he was worth the payout but our brilliant GM at the time didn't get the message.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Here's a stab at the challenge to "grade" the Buffalo Bills 2008 team. I'll strive to be objective in my assignment of grades and not round up the grades as a homer. My grading scale is as follows. A means an elite NFL player, a dominant player that is top-5 in the NFL. B means a player is destinctly above average in the range of 6-12 at the position. C means the player is average with C+ shading to above average and C- shading to below average. D is below average and in the range of 21-27 at the position. F is sucks -- bottom 5 league wide.

 

QB: C- Trent was statistically middle of the pack and had some good games against a cream puff schedule of defenses. Still, he struggled badly for a stretch, especially against the 3-4 with combination coverages. He also cannot stay healthy. JP Losman flamed out in spectacular fashion, showing yet again new extremes to screwing up. Though that pleased some posters it was not to the benefit of the Buffalo Bills.

 

RB: C- Marshawn Lynch was middle of the pack in terms of yards per game, touchdowns scored. Fred Jackson was a servicable backup. I added the minus here because of the FB position, which was manned by a couple of street FAs that offered very little to the offense.

 

WR: D Statistically, this group just did not show up on the radar at all. Is it the QB, the scheme, terrible coaching, a bad line, or a lack of talent? I'll spread the blame equally in all areas.

 

TE: D- Royal is right on the line as one of the worst TEs in the league. Since he's the best (apparently) the Bills have, this group is very weak.

 

OL: D Plenty of sacks, not a lot of scoring, a sputtering gorund game -- the OL takes that on the chin. Jason Peters is the most talented lineman this team has had in a decade and he's caught up in a pissing match over his contract and his play dropped off. The pivot was a disaster and neither Melvin Fowler nor Duke Preston are anything more than scrubs in the NFL.

 

DL: D Buffalo got a solid F in pass rush and a solid D in run defense. Were among the bottom feeders in terms of giving up rushing TDs. Stroud did not appear very active statistically, but that was because he was being double teamed regularly.

 

LB: C+ Posluszny had 110 tackles, making him a solid ILB. Add a pick and a forced fumble and 7 PDs, and he had an average year. Kawika Mitchell lead the team (tied) in sacks despite being mostly misused in coverage. Ellison had a fairly good year statistically, well within in the C range.

 

DB: D+ A D-/F borderline in terms of turnovers. Did well in not giving up TDs through the air, but that may be because teams ran the ball in. There is talent here, but it's hard to see it because the run defense is pourous, there is no pass rush from the DL, and the coaching staff refuses to manufacture QB pressure in other ways for long stretches.

 

K/P: B Lindell made 30 FGs, which was on the edge of being top 5. However, he also missed more FGs than any other PK in the top 5. Moorman was solidly in the B range. Kickoffs were among the shortest but coverage was very good.

 

Coaching: D Jauron has never shown he's anything more than an average NFL head coach and is regularly schooled by the better coaches in the NFL. He's not the worst coach, he can coach a team to wins by minimizing mistakes and taking the air out of the football. His staff is nothing great, especially on offense where the team has no identity and no core competence.

 

Overall: This is a somewhat below average team as is indicative of their 7-9 record against a schedule loaded with cream puffs, an 0-6 record in the AFC East, and an unusual and bad 2-8 collapse.

[Beerball]

go ahead take vince (i don't want to go back in they booed) young. i'll see you at the bust stop. vince can't take the pressure of playing in nashville, imagine buffalo. You think he lost his cookies in Tennessee, in Western New York he would meltdown like frosty the snowman. i can take apart anynumber of those q.b. trades but don't feel the need since you named how many losers?

I listed most starters and for a couple teams the backup as well. I didn't say I would trade Edwards for any of those listed, I simply asked who 'you' would trade Trent Edwards for straight up.