BuffaloBill Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Good points. But the "next great HC" usually comes from being a co-ordinator. A couple candidates appear ready; Spagnuolo, McDaniels. Look at the job Tomlin is doing. That said, an HC with past HC experience seems ideal. But then again look a Jauron... It's a crapshoot really. Exactly look at the annual coaching carousel. I believe the key is having a coach and a front office that are on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/TomlMi0.htm 30-21 head coaching record. That's a .700 winning percentage. When they beat the Titans they'll have the AFCs best record and home field throughout the playoffs. Does that not register with you and your friends? Your friends are either very spoiled or feel sorry for you and are just trying to make you feel good about having brainless Dick Jauron as your head coach. Winning is hiding his failures? Oh please dude, the NFL is about wins and losses. Your friends deserve to be smacked in the head with a 2x4 for complaining about Mike Tomlin. Do me a favor and tell them to shut the hell up. If Dick Jauron were given that Steeler team he'd still have a below .500 record. If you were given the choice between having our 2009 first round pick or hiring Mike Tomlin as our next head coach, you'd hire Mike Tomlin as our next head coach and if you wouldn't you'd be stupid. I'm neither a fan or Jauron nor a critic of Tomlin. However, I am a critic of simplistic arguments, like a simple correlation of coaching ability with winning percentage. To that end, I suggest you read this: http://deadspin.com/5051649/excerpt-boys-w...y-jeff-pearlman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 If Dick Jauron were given that Steeler team he'd still have a below .500 record. If you were given the choice between having our 2009 first round pick or hiring Mike Tomlin as our next head coach, you'd hire Mike Tomlin as our next head coach and if you wouldn't you'd be stupid. lol... still cant get over how dump this statement is...the ignorance in this statement is still lingering in my head...I need to take a shower to wash the ignorance off from this post... Heck, DJ is only 1 game under .500 now with a team with arguably half the talent of Pitt. And it is precisely my point from my that other thread about fans contributing money in to buy the next coach...its why you dont let fans run your team...aka, dont let the inmates run asylum, because they dont know football. Anyone who would take Tomlin over a 1st round draft pick would be the laughing stock of the league...so you would take Tomlin over Matt Ryan, Adrian Peterson, Albert Haynesworth, Randy Moss, Payton Manning, Ladanian Tomlinson, Dwight Freeny, Julius Peppers, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, etc, etc, etc...all first round draft picks, all more valuable than Mike Tomlin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 lol... still cant get over how dump this statement is...the ignorance in this statement is still lingering in my head...I need to take a shower to wash the ignorance off from this post... Heck, DJ is only 1 game under .500 now with a team with arguably half the talent of Pitt. And it is precisely my point from my that other thread about fans contributing money in to buy the next coach...its why you dont let fans run your team...aka, dont let the inmates run asylum, because they dont know football. Anyone who would take Tomlin over a 1st round draft pick would be the laughing stock of the league...so you would take Tomlin over Matt Ryan, Adrian Peterson, Albert Haynesworth, Randy Moss, Payton Manning, Ladanian Tomlinson, Dwight Freeny, Julius Peppers, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, etc, etc, etc...all first round draft picks, all more valuable than Mike Tomlin... Way to twist my words you incoherent jackass. I never said that the reason the Steelers are so great is because of their head coach. Were you dropped on your head as a baby? Tomlin didn't screw it up like Dick Jauron would have. Should I have written that in all caps for you? You list the best players in the league and correlate that to Buffalo's 2009 1st rounder? You sir are a moron. I would give away Buffalo's 2009 first round pick in a heartbeat for Mike Tomlin. You apparently are not willing to do so which confirms my belief you're a moron. I'll take that "idiot" Mike Tomlin off of your idiot Steeler friends hands any day of the week. So he wins even when he's stupid, did you ever think about how good of a coach he'll be when the learning curve is over? Didn't think so dunce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 If they fire Jauron and don't turn to a retread, who do they replace him with? Do you really think they'll get anyone better from the coordinator ranks? Or are you hoping for the luck of the draw despite the uninterrupted history of Bills' failures with coordinator and position coaches going back to team's founding? Remember that Mularkey and Williams are only the last two in a very long line of abject failures in this regard -- Hank Bullough, Kay Stephenson, Jim Ringo, Harvey Johnson, and Joe Collier. In fact, the only Bills coaches in history who have been any good -- Saban, Knox, Levy, and Phillips -- had been head coaches before coming to the Bills. (I'm excluding Buster Ramsey, who had a losing record in any case.) It's plain ridiculous to say we can't find a good coach because Ralph is the owner. But RW is the common denominator in all of this and remains an obstacle to having a winning franchise. When he allows football people to make football decisions, good things happen. Unfortunately, he hasn't done this since, well, BP. There are coordinators right now in this league who can and will succeed as HC's. There are coordinators who cannot. The key is having a football guy who can make the right choice. Donahoe struck out twice, although it wasn't that cut and dry. It also wouldn't hurt to make it worthwhile to come to Buffalo, which is another sticking point. Not to mention having only 7 home games. Nearly every successful NFL coach, past and present, was a coordinator at one time. Generally, HC's have one shot to be good, hence the risk averse culture in the fraternity. Finding a competent guy who just came from being a HC somewhere else is very, very hard. Perhaps if Andy Reid is let go, but I doubt that. Therefore, it's key to find new coaching talent. Maybe if we hire a real GM, it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Way to twist my words you incoherent jackass. I never said that the reason the Steelers are so great is because of their head coach. Were you dropped on your head as a baby? Tomlin didn't screw it up like Dick Jauron would have. Should I have written that in all caps for you? You list the best players in the league and correlate that to Buffalo's 2009 1st rounder? You sir are a moron. I would give away Buffalo's 2009 first round pick in a heartbeat for Mike Tomlin. You apparently are not willing to do so which confirms my belief you're a moron. I'll take that "idiot" Mike Tomlin off of your idiot Steeler friends hands any day of the week. So he wins even when he's stupid, did you ever think about how good of a coach he'll be when the learning curve is over? Didn't think so dunce. You are hilarious...Tomlin has screwed up plenty...his team is talented enough to win anyway. I have a suggestion for you, why not watch the guy coach before you decide how good of a coach he is. Even Pitt fans have been frustrated with him. You lazy boy GM's open up a win loss report and annoit the guy Bill Walsh. What about the losses he has from coaching errors? And I have named several reasons why he isnt an Elite coach at this point, and you are yet to provide a single aspect as to what about him makes him this Elite coach that you would give up our first round pick for. Tomlin did not build that team. Tomlin has made more than his share of coaching errors, including LOSING games because of them And you dont turn around teams who have a clear lack of talent at key positions like us by giving up PREMIUM draft picks to get an unproven HC who has made a number of dubious mistakes. To top it off, you clearly point out how stupid your post is by claiming that DJ wouldnt be over .500 if he was coaching Pitt this year when he is one game under .500 with a team with half the overall talent as Pitt, so get out a la la land. Just go back to playing Madden football where all your fantasy's can come true, because you are clearly delusional. And for the record, I am not saying Tomlin wont learn from his mistakes and develop into a premier coach, I am saying he has not there at this point in time. Geezus, now I need another shower to go wash the lame off me from your response... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep2evans Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 LOL damn alphadawg, arguments aside, you must be the biggest prick i've ever heard in my life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 You are hilarious...Tomlin has screwed up plenty...his team is talented enough to win anyway. I have a suggestion for you, why not watch the guy coach before you decide how good of a coach he is. Even Pitt fans have been frustrated with him. You lazy boy GM's open up a win loss report and annoit the guy Bill Walsh. What about the losses he has from coaching errors? And I have named several reasons why he isnt an Elite coach at this point, and you are yet to provide a single aspect as to what about him makes him this Elite coach that you would give up our first round pick for. Tomlin did not build that team. Tomlin has made more than his share of coaching errors, including LOSING games because of them And you dont turn around teams who have a clear lack of talent at key positions like us by giving up PREMIUM draft picks to get an unproven HC who has made a number of dubious mistakes. To top it off, you clearly point out how stupid your post is by claiming that DJ wouldnt be over .500 if he was coaching Pitt this year when he is one game under .500 with a team with half the overall talent as Pitt, so get out a la la land. Just go back to playing Madden football where all your fantasy's can come true, because you are clearly delusional. And for the record, I am not saying Tomlin wont learn from his mistakes and develop into a premier coach, I am saying he has not there at this point in time. Geezus, now I need another shower to go wash the lame off me from your response... Don't you get it? Chris Kelsay = James Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep2evans Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 lol... still cant get over how dump this statement is...the ignorance in this statement is still lingering in my head...I need to take a shower to wash the ignorance off from this post... Anyone who would take Tomlin over a 1st round draft pick would be the laughing stock of the league...so you would take Tomlin over Matt Ryan, Adrian Peterson, Albert Haynesworth, Randy Moss, Payton Manning, Ladanian Tomlinson, Dwight Freeny, Julius Peppers, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, etc, etc, etc...all first round draft picks, all more valuable than Mike Tomlin... The irony of this post is off the charts. You call him ignorant 40 times, and then list the best 1st rounders of the past decade as your reference point? Seriously? Like you gotta be kidding me with this? If you are trying to create a sample group of players as an argument, DON'T USE THE BEST PLAYERS FROM THE LAST 10 YEARS! Would I take Mike Tomlin over Erik Flowers, Mike Williams, Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown, Joey Harrington, Ryan Sims, Peter Warrick, and Courtney Brown....damn right I would. Also, I'm not sure what kind of crazed superiority complex that you have going on that makes you feel your opinion is always right, but I know Pitt fans too, and just about all of them love Mike Tomlin. ESPN coach approval ratings agree, as Tomlin is tied for the top. Just because you and your buddies can pick on a few mistakes, doesn't mean he's an awful coach. Remember Gibbs' back-to-back timeouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I actually have no problem with Brian Billick at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flomoe Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I'll take the job. At this point, I know what not to do compared to the simple things that the Squirrel Jauron does on a weekly basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopreme Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Besides losing and having management make bonehead moves, the only thing consistent over the years is great special teams play. We can agree that bobby april is the reason behind that. He knows how to motivate his players and puts them in a position to succeed. If the bills roll the dice on a cheap alternative, I'd rather have him than a positional coach from another team. In regards to Tomlin, he seems like a badazz who unlike jauron will beat some heads. I can't comment on his actual coaching, don't know enough about him. I'm sure he is much better than the garbage on the bills sideline. I do think tomlin inherited a great team and the arguement can be made that its easier to hide mistakes with talent. If that is the case with tomlin, I don't know. Jauron, unfortunately, doesn't have that luxary and hence has been a total bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 You seem to be overlooking the key salient fact -- 48 years of failure when choosing a coordinator without head coaching experience. The one thing the Bills have never tried is choosing a college head coach. There have been a lot of failures of late in that regard, so I can't see that happening. In fact, have there been any successes since Jimmy Johnson? (I'm not including Switzer). Kirk Ferentz is the one guy who is frequently mentioned as suited for the pro game. However, the same was said about Saban. Maybe Wannstedt? People would howl, but he had six winning and five losing seasons in the pros. Of course, it'll never happen. Ferentz has 3 big plusses in his favor 1. he has NFL coachiing experience under Bellichek in Cleveland 2. he was the offensive line coach which helps in 2 ways a. he will have the juice and the understanding to make the OL a priority on draft day b. he won't tolerate teh dysfunction regarding zone blocking, drive blocking, blitz calls, etc 3. he has proven capable of running the entire program at a major college - the major unknown of most NFL coordinators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 If they fire Jauron and don't turn to a retread, who do they replace him with? Do you really think they'll get anyone better from the coordinator ranks? Or are you hoping for the luck of the draw despite the uninterrupted history of Bills' failures with coordinator and position coaches going back to team's founding? Remember that Mularkey and Williams are only the last two in a very long line of abject failures in this regard -- Hank Bullough, Kay Stephenson, Jim Ringo, Harvey Johnson, and Joe Collier. In fact, the only Bills coaches in history who have been any good -- Saban, Knox, Levy, and Phillips -- had been head coaches before coming to the Bills. (I'm excluding Buster Ramsey, who had a losing record in any case.) The bottom line is you never know. You could get a coordinator and it could go either way. You could get an experienced HC and that could go either way. Marty Schottenheimer is out there, but he can't get through the playoffs. Brian Billick, Cowher, Nolan, Marriucci just to name a few. Cowher and Billick have rings, but look at how many seasons they coached for their respective teams. With Cowher you run the risk of being stuck with another Kordell Stewart for 10 years, and Billick didn't have any luck with quarterbacks since he left Minnesota and the Moss/Culpepper connection. Hell, Bellichek was a crappy coach in Cleveland, and look at him now. What about Ron Rivera, remember him? Former DC for the Bears the last time they went to the Super Bowl. He is the DC for the Chargers now. He was a HC candidate a couple of years ago. What about someone like Jason Garrett, or try to lure Mike Singletary from the Niners. Oh, yeah, thats right we are talking about the Bills so scratch most of these. I would prefer someone with a Defensive mind. Too bad Monte Kiffin is going to the college ranks. Hell what about the DC for the Eagles (Jim Jones?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I would hope Ralph would finally realize that we need to get someone who has had decent success as a HC instead of hiring guys who have never had Head coaching experience. Experience is vastly overrated. The problem is they have hired coordinators who just aren't good head coaches. Look at John Harbaugh in Baltimore, Mike Smith in Atlanta, Tony Sparano in Miami, and even Jim Zorn to a degree in Washington. All of them have winning records, except Zorn who is 7 and 7. All of them other than Zorn are taking over teams that had horrible records last year. Their lack of experience is not hurting them at all. Wilson doesn't need to hire someone with "experience". He needs to hire someone who can get the job done, whether they have experience or don't...why is it everyone else who hires coordinators and position coaches seems to succeed except for the Bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Búfalo Blanco Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 At this point, I'm not even convinced Jauron will be fired... He may be with us for a while... But if he is fired, do we really believe Wilson is gonna go out and get an experienced, Super Bowl coach in the mold of a Bill Cowher? Based on his track record, that's highly unlikely... On top of that, assistants high on the HC interview list will be in demand this year with all the other vacancies... but you can bet that, hypothetically, Wilson will want to sign a cheap assistant who's green as a HC... If it were me, I'd heavily look into offensive-minded assistants who are cutting edge West Coast Offense schemers and can groom a QB... I believe this is the best type of offense for Trent Edwards and perfectly fits his style. A ball-control WC scheme that can keep the defense off the field... If the Bills Organization does that though, it would be a miracle... because it would mean thay are actually doing something that makes sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Discussing who the Bills will hire has nothing to do with whether or not Jauron should be fired. If an employee is stealing from your business, would you not fire them because you're not sure who you'd replace them with? Jauron has proven that he isn't the coach for this team, and that he just isn't a good coach, period. Oh, and anyone who suggests Bobby April, is a jackass plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rook Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 30-21 head coaching record. That's a .700 winning percentage. Recheck your math. That's a .588 winning percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rook Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Oh, and anyone who suggests Bobby April, is a jackass plain and simple. As a Bills fan in Phoenix who doesn't get to hear the local Buffalo sports radio, nor has the time to read every last scrap of info about the Bills on the net, why do you feel Bobby April would be a bad pick to be HC? I'm not saying that Bobby April would make a good HC, I just want to understand your viewpoint of why he wouldn't. As an outsider looking in, all I see is that his special teams have been outstanding year in, year out. I think he's ready for more responsibility as an OC or DC at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 Recheck your math. That's a .588 winning percentage. It's actually not even accurate. In two seasons, he's 21-10 (including a playoff loss). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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