prisco on losman

[GG]

wasn't moulds like 15 pounds overweight that year. i recall him having a pretty bad attitude that year, after which he saw the light.

460072[/snapback]

 

 

Chicken or the egg?

 

Levy was notorious for not playing rookies. So here's a great talented kid comes in, but finds himself on the bench for two years, while Meyshawn & Harrison are the toast of the NFL.

 

I see Levy's point that he wanted more maturity out of his players, but with the newere breed of players coming around in mid '90s, budding stars didn't take the maturity lesson until Yr 3.

 

I remember the talk about Moulds being fat and needing to get his game in order. But I also remember him being lights out when Bills dared to throw his way.

[stuckincincy]

no, THIS:

 

"B A Bay, B E Bee

B I Bickie Bye B O Bo

Bickie Bye Bo B U Boo

Bickie Bye Bo Boo

 

F A Fay, F E Fee

F I Fickie Fye F O Foe

Fickie Fye Foe F U Foo

Fickie Fye Foe Foo"

 

Goddamn but that's a tongue-twister.

460104[/snapback]

 

Oops - sig line. That's part of the theme song from the old Three Stooges kid's tv show.

 

http://www.kididdles.com/mouseum/b019.html

 

It's sung;

 

BEE AAY Bay, Bee Eee Bee

Bee eye Bickie Bye Bee Oh Bo (like Bo jackson)

Bickie Bye Bo Bee You Boo

bickie Bye Bo Boo.

 

I know zilch about music, but each verse is recited in 10 seconds or so.

 

I try to add some levity (confusion?) while people are fighting about the same things they have been fighting about for the past several decades...

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Nobody's looking for five TD passes per game, but a solid, 10-yard step-and-throw on 3rd and 7 would sure be nice every once in a while.

459894[/snapback]

10 yard step and throw???

[KnightRider]

well, the running game is more dominant than you're giving it credit for, running for about 50 yards above the league average last week.

 

459895[/snapback]

 

Not in the red zone where it really matters. I don't know that it Willis's fault though. For some reason, we are yaking the ball out of his hands when we get inside the 20 or there is a third down... I don't really get that logic...

[Risin]

Uh, maybe you are right.  But, this certainly makes all the people on this board who swore that JP "couldn't be any worse than Bledsoe" look pretty silly.  JP has been awful...not Drew Bledsoe awful, more like Todd Collins awful.  You can blame that paly calling and the offensive line all you want (that is what Drew haters accused Bledsoe apologists of doing ad nausium), but JP just has not made plays.  He has had more time than Losman apologists care to admitt.  He just, at this point, can't read defenses at a functional level, and is afraid to make mistakes.  Who knows how Bledsoe would have done this year?  Don't be so sure that Bledsoe will fade so badly in the second half....when he was let go, I don't imagine haters thought he had anything left in the tank.  So far, he has proven them wrong...

460083[/snapback]

 

 

I wanted Drew gone. He was done HERE. I'm happy he's doing well in Dallas, but even if I could bring him back, I wouldn't.

 

I'm willing to take my lumps with JP, plus I haven't seen him throw the ball out of bounds on 4th down. So you are right, he isn't Drew awful....yet.

[VABills]

Not in the red zone where it really matters.  I don't know that it Willis's fault though.  For some reason, we are yaking the ball out of his hands when we get inside the 20 or there is a third down...  I don't really get that logic...

460201[/snapback]

I hate when they yak. The field and ball gets slippery, and smells bad. Maybe that explains why Willis tripped over his own feet he stepped in yak.

[KnightRider]

I hate when they yak.  The field and ball gets slippery, and smells bad.  Maybe that explains why Willis tripped over his own feet he stepped in yak. 

460218[/snapback]

 

 

 

Maybe if he had a yak blocking for him...

[Lori]

No, we wouldn't.

 

TB's defense would have eaten Drew's lunch, and there were a NUBMER of plays in that Atlanta game that would have ended up for losses with Drew back there. Sorry, Mr. "Clutch", but I'm not buying what you're selling.

460074[/snapback]

I'd debate the Atlanta game, but I'm right there with ya on the Tampa one.

[Fezmid]

plus I haven't seen him throw the ball out of bounds on 4th down.

Yeah, I've only seen him step out of the endzone for a safety

 

Uh, maybe you are right. But, this certainly makes all the people on this board who swore that JP "couldn't be any worse than Bledsoe" look pretty silly.

Where's Stojan's grandmother? We should sign her -- Steve promised that she wouldn't be any worse than Bledsoe was! Maybe she'd be an improvement over JPL?

 

CW

[Risin]

Yeah, I've only seen him step out of the endzone for a safety 

 

CW

460250[/snapback]

 

 

 

How'd I know you'd reply to that?

 

At least he felt the pressure.

[Buftex]

I wanted Drew gone.  He was done HERE.  I'm happy he's doing well in Dallas,  but even if I could bring him back,  I wouldn't. 

 

I'm willing to take my lumps with JP,  plus I haven't seen him throw the ball out of bounds on 4th down.  So you are right,  he isn't Drew awful....yet.

460207[/snapback]

 

 

Oh I hear you...I am willing to take my lumps with JP as well, because he is our guy now, for better or worse. I just think that if he (JP) is supposed to be adding a whole new dimension to our offense, as was billed, our offense is maybe not as good as we all might have thought it was.

 

Who knows, results might not have been much different right now Bedsore was our QB, but it has been frustrating to watch a young QB who seems overwhelmed, and ill-fitted for his current role. He just simply isn't making any plays...not small ones or big ones. Let's face it, we all felt pretty good about his game against the Texans, but even that game was only adequate. It jsut seemed that the Bills, despite their defesive woes, could have won the Bucs and Falcons game, with just something from the QB! These were both winnable games. The Falcons loss was particularly brutal...JP had as bad a day as Bledsoe ever had in a Bills uniform.

 

I am so pumped to be going to the game this weekend, I pray that this is JP's big step game. I really am. There is a ton to like about the kid, his play, right now, is not one of them.....

[Risin]

Oh I hear you...I am willing to take my lumps with JP as well, because he is our guy now, for better or worse. I just think that if he (JP) is supposed to be adding a whole new dimension to our offense, as was billed, our offense is maybe not as good as we all might have thought it was.

 

Who knows, results might not have been much different right now Bedsore was our QB, but it has been frustrating to watch a young QB who seems overwhelmed, and ill-fitted for his current role. He just simply isn't making any plays...not small ones or big ones. Let's face it, we all felt pretty good about his game against the Texans, but even that game was only adequate. It jsut seemed that the Bills, despite their defesive woes, could have won the Bucs and Falcons game, with just something from the QB! These were both winnable games. The Falcons loss was particularly brutal...JP had as bad a day as Bledsoe ever had in a Bills uniform.

 

I am so pumped to be going to the game this weekend, I pray that this is JP's big step game. I really am. There is a ton to like about the kid, his play, right now, is not one of them.....

460274[/snapback]

 

 

I agree completely.

 

I was one of those guys who thought JP couldn't be much worse then Drew, I'll admit I was wrong. That doesn't mean I want Drew back, I'm happy JP is our QB, and "think" he'll be a decent/very good NFL QB. These growing pains are tough to watch.

[Fezmid]

How'd I know you'd reply to that?   

What can I say, I'm predictable!

[mead107]

big !@#$ ing deal, screw that jerk he really is a first year starter

[finknottle]

Including it in the article. Just because Drew is having a good year in Dallas doesn't mean he would be having a good year in Buffalo. It isn't relevant when it comes to our current issues.

459835[/snapback]

 

Silliest thing I've ever heard. While it is true that there is a limit to comparisons between players performances on different teams, if you throw them out you wind up with nothing. I could sit here and argue that Kyle Boller is the best qb in the league right now. If you point out that some 30 qbs are doing better, I'll just use your logic.

[habes1280]

as for losman, he is "losing" games. i say this because to win in the nfl a team has to score points, and the league, like it or not, is a passing league. 

459895[/snapback]

 

I concur. Manufacturing yards/plays without opportunity is winning games, J.P. (and I'm pulling for him) is missing yardage/plays when the opportunity is present. He needn't make every third down throw for us, but missing nearly every one of them is, in fact, undermining things like the running game, the defense (who spend an exorbitant amount of time on the field), and the special teams (whose coverage units would have to be elite to compensate). J.P. is not making ANY throws, and we need a few throws from our QB to keep our other units, and our running game, above board. Presently, J.P. is losing games for us.

[finknottle]

There is only two there and they have a rookie RT.  

 

Another big difference is having a legit TE vs.  the rejects we have had.

460024[/snapback]

 

And don't forget the Ruben Brown factor - ie, the inherent goofiness and laziness of the pro bowl selection process. In the case of Dallas, I would argue that they and other notorious or large market teams get more pro bowl selections, just for who they are.

 

(I do think their O-line is better; I just don't buy into this idea that it is all-pro.)

[VABills]

And don't forget the Ruben Brown factor - ie, the inherent goofiness and laziness of the pro bowl selection process.  In the case of Dallas, I would argue that they and other notorious or large market teams get more pro bowl selections, just for who they are.

 

(I do think their O-line is better;  I just don't buy into this idea that it is all-pro.)

460328[/snapback]

Actually Flozell Adams and Larry Allen are true pro bowlers. They are two of the top 5 or 6 at their positions in the league, easily.

 

The other close one is Marco Rivera that they signed from GB.

 

Pettiti is the rookie at RT and at 6th roun appears to be a steal.

 

Add Witten who is a probowler and deserves it at TE, it is a much better group for him, then we have.

[IndyMark]

I question that statement. As of now, the talent is not producing on D. So what exactly is this talent that he speaks of which is so undermined just by JP ?

I do agree somewhat that JP is not ready but as others on this board have said a million times till now, he never will be if KH starts.

459816[/snapback]

 

 

Bingo.

[Like A Mofo]

Exactly which "Bledsoe junk" from the article do you "disagree" with:

 

A) Bledsoe has thrown for 850 yards,

B) six touchdowns

C) and a passer rating of 103.7

459822[/snapback]

 

 

It also must be noted San Diego and San Francisco's secondaries are abysmal.

[Fezmid]

It also must be noted San Diego and San Francisco's secondaries are abysmal.

460355[/snapback]

 

Must it also be noted that Atlanta's secdonary was worse?

 

CW

[Fan in Chicago]

Must it also be noted that Atlanta's secdonary was worse?

 

CW

460364[/snapback]

 

You are correct (as usual in this topic's debate). Problem is that on this board we continue to argue about what could have and would have been. Only time will tell what the correct decision was this past offseason. I thought the decision to get rid of DB and get a better prospect was the correct one keeping in mind the long term goal of winning the big one. Whether the decision to go with JP was consistent with this goal, only time will tell. Meanwhile, we will continue this fruitless debate that on this board (including me !!)

[GG]

I'd debate the Atlanta game, but I'm right there with ya on the Tampa one.

460236[/snapback]

 

That's the bizarre part about the arguments some of these people make.

 

You won't find me backing the idea of having Drew line up wearing a red grazing buffalo helmet this year, but I would find it very hard to believe that the Bills would have lost last Sunday if he was the one tickling Teague's willy wonkas.

[dave mcbride]

The Falcons loss was particularly brutal...JP had as bad a day as Bledsoe ever had in a Bills uniform. 

460274[/snapback]

 

i don't know about that! what about drew in green bay in 2002, when the bills lost 10-0 and he threw 4 INTs? Or against NE last year in the 33-6 loss on Sunday night, when Troy Brown got an interception? Or against Miami in game 3 of the 2003 season? or against NE in the final game of the 03 season? or against miami in the second last game of the 2003 season?

[Tcali]

In talking with league personnel and coaches, there is a growing consensus that Bills quarterback J.P. Losman isn't ready. "He's a ways away from being a good player," said one coach. The Bills let Drew Bledsoe leave with the idea that Losman was ready to be their starter. So far, he's been bad. In three starts, Losman has completed 38 of 79 passes for 358 yards, one touchdown and a passer rating of 60. By comparison, Bledsoe has thrown for 850 yards, six touchdowns and a passer rating of 103.7 for the Cowboys. The word is there is a growing feeling among the Bills players that it might be time to go to veteran Kelly Holcomb in place of Losman. That's a tough decision to make since Losman is obviously the quarterback of the future, and Bills coach Mike Mularkey said this week he is sticking with Losman. That could be something coming from above since the Bills traded a first-round pick in this year's draft to get Losman in the 2004 draft. If Losman struggles Sunday against the Saints, don't be shocked to see a change. The Bills have a lot of talent to waste on bad quarterback play.

 

http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8907136

459789[/snapback]

RIDICULOUS---Drew has some good stats...but he hasnt been that good for Dallas---...against WASH he throws a 2 yard pass on 4th and 4 to end thegame.1 loss on Drew. He throws a few good ones late against San Fran..big deal....--Last year DB was HORRIBLE--while the D was vailantly keeping us close in games.Sure---JP isnt ready---but we;d still be 1-2 with DB in there..espec ially with the D giving up GOBS of yards

[Like A Mofo]

Must it also be noted that Atlanta's secdonary was worse?

 

CW

460364[/snapback]

 

 

Be that as it may, but my point was about Drew and had nothing to do wth JP

[nfreeman]

RIDICULOUS---Drew has some good stats...but he hasnt been that good for Dallas---...against WASH he throws a 2 yard pass on 4th and 4 to end thegame.1 loss on Drew. He throws a few good ones late against San Fran..big deal....--Last year DB was HORRIBLE--while the D was vailantly keeping us close in games.Sure---JP isnt ready---but we;d still be 1-2 with DB in there..espec ially with the D giving up GOBS of yards

460390[/snapback]

 

 

Right on. Everyone is looking at a few Bledsoe highlights and stats from 2 wins against crappy teams early in the season and just forgetting how AWFUL he was for the last TWO YEARS in buffalo. TWO YEARS of watching that big tree trunk sit back there and get sacked out of field goal range. TWO YEARS of watching that rocket arm be completely unable to hit a running back in stride coming out of the backfield, like any NFL QB has to be able to do. Two years of my life that I'll never get back.

 

Drew was a great guy, and I still can't decide who else we might have gotten at the time that would have been better -- bottom line is there just weren't many good QBs available or for that matter have become available since then, although Drew Brees is one of them. But there were at least 6 games last year where no one watching him could have conceivably wanted him in the NFL, and another 6 where he looked like a bottom 5 QB. Remember the Ravens game (2 picks for Deion)? The Pitt game at home against Pitt's backups to get into the playoffs? Every Jets road game? Every patriots game? He only had one good game (vs Miami, which was terrible last year) the whole year. He was terrible on the road. There was no way we could bring him back.

 

JP is essentially a rookie and is going to struggle. That's how it is. We'll know by the end of the year whether he MIGHT be good. Not in week 3, 4, 5 or 10 for that matter.

 

I am having an increasing number of issues with Tom Donahoe's strategy and decision-making on building this team. Someone on another thread made a great comment a few days ago -- to the effect that the bills are built from the outside in, which is a losing formula, not the inside out, which is what teams like the pats and steelers are. It's clear to me that we need more talent on both lines, and that our drafting under TD hasn't produced much in the later rounds. In addition, TD has made a number of big mistakes -- Gregg Williams and probably Mike Williams among them. But letting Drew go was not one of them.

[Oneida Lake]

But there were at least 6 games last year where no one watching him could have conceivably wanted him in the NFL, and another 6 where he looked like a bottom 5 QB.

460403[/snapback]

 

12 games where Bledsoe either "didn't belong in the NFL" or was a "bottom 5 quarterback", yet the team went 9-7.

 

This year he is the highest rated QB in the NFC and Losman is the lowest in the AFC.

 

Folks, if you don't see the spin from the Bledsoe haters/Losman lovers then you're living on another planet, just like they are.

[BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land]

Including it in the article. Just because Drew is having a good year in Dallas doesn't mean he would be having a good year in Buffalo. It isn't relevant when it comes to our current issues.

459835[/snapback]

What about the hot start in 2002, and then the complete crapping of the bed in the second half? The pats also started 6-0 one year with Drew, who promptly threw enough picks for them to end 8-8.

 

3 games is too soon to tell anything. Look at Cinci and San Diego last season.

[Oneida Lake]

What about the hot start in 2002, and then the complete crapping of the bed in the second half?

460411[/snapback]

 

I love this one. It repeated so often by the Bledsoe hater/Losman lover spin doctors that it has become part of their phony talking points package.

 

Some facts.

 

Bledsoe finished 2002 with 4359 yards, 24TDs and 15Ints, a passer rating of 86

and an invite to the Pro Bowl. The team went 8-8 following a 3-13 previous year.

A 5 win improvement coming to a new team and suspect coaching staff.

 

The defense was dreadful. If you don't believe it try to remember how much was spent on the defense in the off season.

 

Had the ST been able to stop even one of several kickoff returns for TDs. Or Travis Henry not fumbled away 2 games OR the defense played up to the quality of a division 2 college team, the playoffs were a certainty.

 

But of course the spin is "Bledsoe crapped the bed".

[BuffOrange]

i don't know about that! what about drew in green bay in 2002, when the bills lost 10-0 and he threw 4 INTs? Or against NE last year in the 33-6 loss on Sunday night, when Troy Brown got an interception? Or against Miami in game 3 of the 2003 season? or against NE in the final game of the 03 season? or against miami in the second last game of the 2003 season?

460389[/snapback]

 

Yep, all of those were pretty bad. The Falcons game reminded me a little of the '03 Eagles game (the week after the Sunday night debacle in Miami) when the offense couldn't score with Philly's 3 best DB's not playing - Vincent, Taylor, and Dawkins. Granted we couldn't run the ball in that game like we did vs. Atlanta, but still sickening for such a veteran QB not to take advantage of that.

Same thing with Flutie in '99 vs. the Giants.

It seems the only way an NFC team can beat us in our stadium is if they have practice squad players in the secondary.

[Fezmid]

JP is essentially a rookie and is going to struggle.  That's how it is.  We'll know by the end of the year whether he MIGHT be good.  Not in week 3, 4, 5 or 10 for that matter. 

 

I don't care that JP is "essentially a rookie." Everyone who was calling for Bledsoe's head last year said, and I QUOTE:

 

Nobody could be worse than Bledsoe.

 

Stojan even went so far as to say:

 

Even my grandmother could play better than Bledsoe!

 

Sorry, but I'm finding it really tough to believe that a QB who has thrown for less than 100 yards in two of his first three games (one of them against a JV-quality secondary) is better than what Bledsoe could have done. Does anyone doubt that Bledsoe would've connected with at least one of those long bombs in the beginning of the game? That was his forte, the deep pass!

 

I've maintained all along that we should've stuck with DB for one more year; next year the team will be completely different and you can groom your new QB then, not when you're coming off of a 9-7 season with asperations of making the playoffs.

 

It's kinda pathetic that everyone's now saying, "Of course JP isn't that good right now, he's essentially a rookie!" when during the offseason all they'd say is "We would've gone to the playoffs if not for Bledsoe!"

 

*sigh*

 

CW

[Fezmid]

Be that as it may, but my point was about Drew and had nothing to do wth JP

460398[/snapback]

 

The whole THREAD is about JP!

 

[Peter]

...against WASH he throws a 2 yard pass on 4th and 4 to end thegame.1 loss on Drew.

460390[/snapback]

 

Not according to John Madden and Bill Parcells. It was the receiver's fault. You are reaching.

[Dante]

It just demonstrates that Drew was not the problem with the Bills as so many people argued.

459860[/snapback]

Just because we have problems elsewhere doesnt hide the fact that Drew was also a problem. He was and still is merely average at best.

[Fezmid]

Just because we have problems elsewhere doesnt hide the fact that Drew was also a problem. He was and still is merely average at best.

460446[/snapback]

 

I'd love "merely average" at this point... We'd be 2-1 (or maybe even 3-0!) with "merely average."

 

CW

[IDBillzFan]

Not according to John Madden and Bill Parcells.  It was the receiver's fault.  You are reaching.

460444[/snapback]

I'm tired of this excuse, Peter. Yeah, the receiver didn't run past the first down marker...so WHY THE !@#$ ARE YOU THROWING IT TO HIM???? FIND SOMEONE WHO IS PAST THE MARKER!

 

The receiver didn't run far enough. Jesus. Talk about reaching.

[Peter]

I'm tired of this excuse, Peter. Yeah, the receiver didn't run past the first down marker...so WHY THE !@#$ ARE YOU THROWING IT TO HIM???? FIND SOMEONE WHO IS PAST THE MARKER!

 

The receiver didn't run far enough. Jesus. Talk about reaching.

460453[/snapback]

Yeah, you are right. Madden and Parcells are wrong. They don't know that regardless of what happens, we are supposed to blame DB for everything.

[Peter]

Just because we have problems elsewhere doesnt hide the fact that Drew was also a problem. He was and still is merely average at best.

460446[/snapback]

 

That average QB is the top rated QB in the NFC.