Highly recommend all true patriots watch Ken Burns American Revolution documentary

[milfandcookies]

My ancestors were in Italy at the time so I never really cared much about the American revolution 

[gobills404]

17 hours ago, JDHillFan said:

Makes you profoundly melodramatic. 

Joe when he finds out colonists killed native americans 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

15 hours ago, JDHillFan said:

It was the “profoundly” part. Maybe you missed it. I suspect he rebounded rather quickly. You should go back to tying the patriotism of others to a Ken Burns documentary. 
 

Yes, he got over the profound sadness. Whew!

Joe hasn't posted here in many hours, and last we knew, he had an air of sadness around him that can only be described as profound.  I'm concerned, not profoundly, but probably in the "moderately" category.  I guess I would say that I'm moderately concerned that Fergie was profoundly sad and is now ostensibly absent.  

 

Prayers all around to everyone, even the ***** and the people who so-label them. 

[JDHillFan]

8 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Joe hasn't posted here in many hours, and last we knew, he had an air of sadness around him that can only be described as profound.  I'm concerned, not profoundly, but probably in the "moderately" category.  I guess I would say that I'm moderately concerned that Fergie was profoundly sad and is now ostensibly absent.  

 

Prayers all around to everyone, even the ***** and the people who so-label them. 

The thing that makes it such a shame is that it’s the first time he’s ever been profound in any way. Dammit all!!

[BillsFanNC]

1 minute ago, JDHillFan said:

The thing that makes it such a shame is that it’s the first time he’s ever been profound in any way. Dammit all!!

 

Disagree.

 

Profoundly inept at scientific chart interpretation.

[TH3]

On 11/24/2025 at 1:48 PM, Tommy Callahan said:

Listen to the American revolution podcast.  It's way more detailed and doesn't have any agendas.  Even though the burns one was good for high schoolers.  

 

I would also state that the hard leftist out there maybe, just maybe try grey history for the French revolution .  

 

 

There are two aides to that argument.  Same with Britain paying brant and his army of Canadian natives that purposely attacked the homes, wives and children of the colonial militia.  And brutally.  

 

 

What agenda exactly is in it? Like actual examples…I am watching so you must be too…to offer such a comment …

[Andy1]

1 hour ago, TH3 said:

What agenda exactly is in it? Like actual examples…I am watching so you must be too…to offer such a comment …

I don’t get it either. The one repeated complaint of the cynics seems to be Burns reference to the Iroquois confederacy being an influence to the founding fathers. I guess they think that’s woke so it can’t be said. Upstream on this thread I posted the senate hearing with testimony supporting Burns position on this point. Regardless, this is a 5 second part of a 12 hour series so to dismiss the entire series due to this point is stupid. 

[The Frankish Reich]

So I take it Ben Franklin knew about the Iroquois confederacy. So when we drafted the Articles of Confederation it probably was at least a tiny bit influenced by it. That’s all. 

[Andy1]

8 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

So I take it Ben Franklin knew about the Iroquois confederacy. So when we drafted the Articles of Confederation it probably was at least a tiny bit influenced by it. That’s all. 

Their relationship was more than just “knowing about” the Iroquois. According to the testimony, Iroquois chiefs were in Philadelphia and communicating with the Founding Fathers during the Revolution. Leaders of the Revolution were also moved to form closer ties with the Iroquois leaders to curry their favor and forge strategic alliances during these uncertain years. 

[TH3]

10 hours ago, Andy1 said:

I don’t get it either. The one repeated complaint of the cynics seems to be Burns reference to the Iroquois confederacy being an influence to the founding fathers. I guess they think that’s woke so it can’t be said. Upstream on this thread I posted the senate hearing with testimony supporting Burns position on this point. Regardless, this is a 5 second part of a 12 hour series so to dismiss the entire series due to this point is stupid. 

MAGA has no answer…just empty throw away one liners ….thats it. 
@Tommy Callahan  make us proud …tell us you have more than that

[Coffeesforclosers]

10 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

So I take it Ben Franklin knew about the Iroquois confederacy. So when we drafted the Articles of Confederation it probably was at least a tiny bit influenced by it. That’s all. 

 

I thought they were talking about the Albany Plan of Union.

[Tommy Callahan]

Even the part where he stated that the natives in the Pontiac rebellion were raiding communities.   Then replied that the Americans massacred and slaughtered them in return.  Facts matter.  They both were killing innocent civilians.   

 

And again the Iroquois suffered like many others partially due to England paying for natives from Canada to attack American soldiers families.   See stanwix or the sullivan campaign for reference.  

 

It's a good show to be shown in high schools as that's the level of the details involved.  And how our government was never created to provide anything to the population. ..

 

 

 

 

[Kelly to Allen]

11 hours ago, Andy1 said:

Their relationship was more than just “knowing about” the Iroquois. According to the testimony, Iroquois chiefs were in Philadelphia and communicating with the Founding Fathers during the Revolution. Leaders of the Revolution were also moved to form closer ties with the Iroquois leaders to curry their favor and forge strategic alliances during these uncertain years. 

 

Strategic alliance yes. This was also in the context of the French & Indian war prior. ( France and Great Britain fighting with different native tribes choosing sides)

 

The founding fathers main influence for political philosophy was born out of the ancient Greeks. That and a protestant reformation born out of Christendom. If they were not religious they were deists.... John Locke or James Madison would talk about Aristotle or the enlightenment period in Europe. 

 

Cleisthenes - Ancient Greece 

John Calvin - Protestant reformation 

John Locke - enlightenment period 

 

All 3 are widely considered the fathers of modern American democracy 

 

 

They viewed the Iroquois as a different people, from a different culture that was fundamentally not part of the American nation. The same applied to the Sioux tribe, Blackfoot, etc

 

Not saying you're disagreeing with this, I still haven't watched the documentary. But if it's seriously being implied that the founding fathers got some of their political philosophy from the Iroquois, yes that is silly and bizarre 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[T master]

On 11/22/2025 at 10:28 AM, BillsFanNC said:

No thanks.

 

 

After the Trump reference why does this not surprise me ?

[MarkyMannn]

Ken Burns did a great documentary on the Viet Nam war.  You can find it on TV occasionally, YouTube, Amazon TV

[Coffeesforclosers]

7 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Not saying you're disagreeing with this, I still haven't watched the documentary. But if it's seriously being implied that the founding fathers got some of their political philosophy from the Iroquois, yes that is silly and bizarre 

 

 

The documentary starts by stating the Iroqouian Confederacy may have influenced Ben Franklin's ideas on the Albany Plan of Union.

 

That's pretty much it. 

[Trump_is_Mentally_fit]

7 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Strategic alliance yes. This was also in the context of the French & Indian war prior. ( France and Great Britain fighting with different native tribes choosing sides)

 

The founding fathers main influence for political philosophy was born out of the ancient Greeks. That and a protestant reformation born out of Christendom. If they were not religious they were deists.... John Locke or James Madison would talk about Aristotle or the enlightenment period in Europe. 

 

Cleisthenes - Ancient Greece 

John Calvin - Protestant reformation 

John Locke - enlightenment period 

 

All 3 are widely considered the fathers of modern American democracy 

 

 

They viewed the Iroquois as a different people, from a different culture that was fundamentally not part of the American nation. The same applied to the Sioux tribe, Blackfoot, etc

 

Not saying you're disagreeing with this, I still haven't watched the documentary. But if it's seriously being implied that the founding fathers got some of their political philosophy from the Iroquois, yes that is silly and bizarre 

 

The Roman’s too! Cicero was a person many of the founders deeply admired 

 

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

7 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Strategic alliance yes. This was also in the context of the French & Indian war prior. ( France and Great Britain fighting with different native tribes choosing sides)

 

The founding fathers main influence for political philosophy was born out of the ancient Greeks. That and a protestant reformation born out of Christendom. If they were not religious they were deists.... John Locke or James Madison would talk about Aristotle or the enlightenment period in Europe. 

 

John Calvin - Protestant reformation 

 

Are you sure about Calvin's influence specifically?  I'm curious, since the 13 Colonies were a haven for Protestant non- conformers and Calvinists weren't really known for their pluralism (but then again, no one really was at the time).

 

What parts did they like?

 

 

 

[Trump_is_Mentally_fit]

5 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Are you sure about Calvin's influence specifically?  I'm curious, since the 13 Colonies were a haven for Protestant non- conformers and Calvinists weren't really known for their pluralism (but then again, no one really was at the time).

 

What parts did they like?

 

 

 

Just a guess here, but the Calvinist stress on literacy strongly connects it to the idealized version of a republican citizen. The school house is such an American thing, and it was very Protestant in origin. Through the New England churches local governmental decisions were argued over and voted on. Self government. Though other colonies had less democratic colonial governments, I know. 

 

The historical narrative of a fight against the great centralized power of Rome, which inspired many to even greater flights of freedom from Calvinism itself which was a continuing drama in American Protestantism. So that legacy inspired. 

Federalism is many ways reflects the way Protestant churches were themselves organized. 

I think Calvinism strongly influenced the ideas behind republicanism. Let’s remember the first great awakening had already taken place, and it reflected so many issues in religion that were fought over for secular reasons later, freedom of thought and freedom to organize as many saw fit. So Calvinism was “relaxed” by 1788, but its influence in many ways weighed on the founders, imo 

[SectionC3]

23 hours ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Disagree.

 

Profoundly inept at scientific chart interpretation.

Quiet, piggy.