Passing is better…so, why run?

[Nihilarian]

What a lot of Bills fans may or may not know is in the late 80s, early 90's the Bills ran more than they threw it. Even though it was called the K-gun offense. Then it developed into Kelly calling his own plays and the "hurry up" offense. even in that 1990 highest scoring offense in the NFL they still ran it more 425 to 479.

 

Those receivers in 1990 were Reed, Lofton, Thurman Thomas, Keith McKeller, Don Smith, Don Beebe. Steve Tasker even had 2 targets for 2 receptions for 44 yards

[Nephilim17]

Did the OP actually watch more than the first minute or two of the video?

The video does NOT advocate for passing all the time. In fact, here is a screen shot of what are almost the last words of the video, with captions, of course.

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I made a thread about Davis coming back. I truthfully believe he will make a difference. Get some of that early 2020s swagger going again. Hopefully he put his drop issues behind him. 

 

Yeah, I think he's a definitive upgrade from a number of the guys we have in the core. Which says how bad of a shape we're in with the WR room.

 

But again, my hope was that he'd be coming in to a healthy pass catching room and providing more to it. Kincaid is far and away our top guy at getting open and making plays these days. 

 

Davis coming in and Kincaid coming out doesn't make us better in my eyes. Would love to be wrong though.

[Herc11]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

What a lot of Bills fans may or may not know is in the late 80s, early 90's the Bills ran more than they threw it. Even though it was called the K-gun offense. Then it developed into Kelly calling his own plays and the "hurry up" offense. even in that 1990 highest scoring offense in the NFL they still ran it more 425 to 479.

 

Those receivers in 1990 were Reed, Lofton, Thurman Thomas, Keith McKeller, Don Smith, Don Beebe. Steve Tasker even had 2 targets for 2 receptions for 44 yards

 

Pre-2000's can't really be compared because the rules were not as offense friendly. Defense won championships and run first, ball control offenses prevailed. 

 

Post-2000 the league became more pass oriented as rule changes began favoring passing and scoring. 

 

Cook has been phenomenal and should be a focal point of this offense. However, I don't believe that's why our offense is so run heavy focused. If the reason was Cook, he'd be getting the ball 20-25 times a games. I believe McDermott is trying to cover for his defense by having a run first, ball control offense. Even when we pass, it's quick hitting bubble screens, short passes that are an extension of the run game. McDermott does not want a quick strike offense that is constantly putting the defense back on the field because he knows they can't hold the best teams, ie: 13 seconds, etc...

Edited 8 hours ago by Herc11

[reddogblitz]

Interesting.  The one thing he said that I agreed with most is maybe defenses shouldn't substitute as much.  Play your best guys.

[Billzgobowlin]

I say change the game to what works.  The Carolina game was a perfect game to run.  Longterm in a game running is better as you go along because it wears down the LBs and the Dline. 

[Sierra Foothills]

The problem with the offense is not the run-pass ratio.

 

It's that they're below average when they throw the ball.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Sierra Foothills

[Chaos]

The team is illogically built.  No MVP level QB in the last 30 years has had a team focus on building a running attack as their primary offense. If they are doing that this season, it is because the OC does not know how to scheme this group of receivers effectively.  Is it because the receivers suck or the OC sucks, I don't know.  But taking a team that was pitching perfect playoff games and saying "we need to slow this down and make this QB a game manager" is on the list of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen from a football team. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Chaos

[Mike R]

The Bills have a good running game no doubt. Their offensive line is good, not great. Their running back is very good. Good things happen when you can run the ball and you usually win. So why not run? Teams study game film and see tendencies and figure out how to stop you. All NFL teams have figured out if you stack the box you can stop the Bills run game. That’s when you take advantage of defenses cheating up to stop the run. The problem is the Bills pass game has turned to crap and is unrecognizable. To stubbornly run into an eight man box with the safety cheating up is not going to work. The Bills offensive line cannot just impose their will against teams prepared for them. We saw that last week and against good defenses it’s not going to work. Miami doesn’t even have a good defense and all the running into a brick wall did was set up difficult 3rd downs. Until the Bills get their pass game in order they are going nowhere. They refuse to throw to the outside or deep. Sideline screens/laterals are no longer working as teams recognize that play. 8 man boxes and the safeties moving up have congested the middle of the field in the short to intermediate range and no one is open. That’s the only place the Bills throw to.  Miami played a lot of zone and just waited for the receivers to go where they always do and were easily stopped until garbage time when they loosened up. Miami has one of the worst secondary’s in the league fielding no name 3rd stringers who shut down Josh Allen and the Bills. The Bills were scoreless into the 4th quarter. The Bills have serious problems and if exposed again against Tampa their season is finished.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Sierra Foothills said:

The problem with the offense is not the run-pass ratio.

 

It's that they're below average when they throw the ball.

 

In what metrics?  Don’t think that is true for yards per attempt.  Td percentage, int percentage. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Matt_In_NH

[EssexBill]

7 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I made a thread about Davis coming back. I truthfully believe he will make a difference. Get some of that early 2020s swagger going again. Hopefully he put his drop issues behind him. 

 

100% agree with you about Gabe.  He was solid for us and made numerous clutch plays, people only seem to want to remember some of the drops he made but in clutch situations he would more often than not come down with the ball which compared to the guys we have now is an improvement. He was injured in his last year and missed the playoffs so people’s most recent memories are of that, not his games again KC in the 13 seconds game or the 2 deep TDs he pulled in against the stealers for example. 

The vast majority of this board were saying Kincaid was a bust and sucked after last season, yet now they all act like the sky has fallen in because he’s injured.

 

Can’t wait to see Gabe in the blue and white again, he’s a bill

 

[nuklz2594]

we need our version of Kenneth Davis to go pair with cook. turn josh loose. our wrs and now with kincaid hurt are schmelis.

[Billsatlastin2018]

7 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

That one play where Josh ran around like Mahomes for 12 seconds and still couldn’t find an open guy should tell you all you need to know. 

These sub standard “bottom of the fry bag” clowns simply cannot get separation! It’s an embarrassing failure by Beanbrain.

[PepeSilvia]

Because the league is cyclical. When the majority of teams start going pass heavy, the best way to counter that is to  go the opposite way and start being more run oriented. Which is the direction we’re seeing the teams go the last 2-3 seasons. In a few seasons when defenses adjust and build more to stop the run, teams will draft and build back towards passing more. 

[CirclnWagons]

Nobody is scared of 3yd outs to receivers with a 50% catch rate. With Brady’s refusal to throw down field despite having the strongest armed qb in the league, we have to depend on the run for any kind of chunk play

Edited 3 hours ago by CirclnWagons

[machine gun kelly]

9 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

The Bills offense, much like their defense, presently have no plan “B”,  face it, if your offense is not able to pass and run the ball effectively you have a problem in today’s NFL, at this point in our teams season, it will be on the OC’s plate to create a passing game that is effective, on top of maintaining our run game.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Amen Don.  I feel for Brady as he has floundered, but when your promised a filet, and given the worst fattiest ground beef, what do you think is the result.  Beane is the one that bears the ultimate blame.  I’m so sick of hearing about the WR train and nothing happens for over 5 years.  It’s either stupidity or arrogance.  I’m not accusing anyone of anything, just it’s one or the other.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

1 hour ago, EssexBill said:

 

100% agree with you about Gabe.  He was solid for us and made numerous clutch plays, people only seem to want to remember some of the drops he made but in clutch situations he would more often than not come down with the ball which compared to the guys we have now is an improvement. He was injured in his last year and missed the playoffs so people’s most recent memories are of that, not his games again KC in the 13 seconds game or the 2 deep TDs he pulled in against the stealers for example. 

The vast majority of this board were saying Kincaid was a bust and sucked after last season, yet now they all act like the sky has fallen in because he’s injured.

 

Can’t wait to see Gabe in the blue and white again, he’s a bill

 

Somehow, all the “Zero receptions, zero yards” games he produced escaped your memory 

[EssexBill]

1 minute ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Somehow, all the “Zero receptions, zero yards” games he produced escaped your memory 

No they didn’t, and I didn’t say he was a #1 WR either which would make it much worse to have games like that.
 

But he was a solid receiver and part of the best passing offence we’ve had for 25 years or so (along with Diggs). He performed at important moments, yes maybe not every single regular season game but when needed he was a trusted target and did more in the playoffs than Diggs or any of our other receivers considering his status and what he was paid. I agree he wasn’t worth what the jags paid him, but then were paying Samuel similar to do nothing. Compare Gabe’s body of work when he was fully healthy his first three years and it holds up pretty well to anyone we’ve got now. 

[Rubes]

8 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Did the OP actually watch more than the first minute or two of the video?

The video does NOT advocate for passing all the time. In fact, here is a screen shot of what are almost the last words of the video, with captions, of course.

Of course I did. If you actually read my OP, you would see that I’m not advocating for anything in particular, and I certainly never advocated for “passing all the time.” I’m just posing questions based on that material in the video.

 

Thanks for that, though.

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

2 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

These sub standard “bottom of the fry bag” clowns simply cannot get separation! It’s an embarrassing failure by Beanbrain.

There are people that really think Josh Allen forgot how to play QB after 8 years. I don’t buy it. 

2 hours ago, EssexBill said:

 

100% agree with you about Gabe.  He was solid for us and made numerous clutch plays, people only seem to want to remember some of the drops he made but in clutch situations he would more often than not come down with the ball which compared to the guys we have now is an improvement. He was injured in his last year and missed the playoffs so people’s most recent memories are of that, not his games again KC in the 13 seconds game or the 2 deep TDs he pulled in against the stealers for example. 

The vast majority of this board were saying Kincaid was a bust and sucked after last season, yet now they all act like the sky has fallen in because he’s injured.

 

Can’t wait to see Gabe in the blue and white again, he’s a bill

 

Gabe Davis would’ve been a Buffalo legend if 13 seconds didn’t happen. Crazy how the loss which he had nothing to do with can affect someone’s legacy so much. 

Edited 1 hour ago by ChronicAndKnuckles